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Thread: Lower back pain.

  1. #1

    Lower back pain.

    I've suffered from this on and off for the past 10 yrs, most of the time manageable but periodically very bad with the pain radiating down my legs and in to my upper back. I've been to see the doc who has basically told me to lose a bit of weight and keep taking the tablets. I've spent 27 yrs of my life bent at the waist over bonnets of cars so unfortunately there's a bit of a trend with us ex spanner monkeys. It seems that first thing in the morning is when it is at it's very worst, getting out of bed and bending over the basin to brush my teeth is very sore, but once I get moving it slowly goes off.

    We've just spent a weekend in Wales with friends where we have slept on a very firm memory type mattress and the last 3 days I have been virtually pain free, getting out of bed and bending from the waist all very better. I've never considered my mattress to be the route cause of the issue as I generally find it very comfortable but after spending these 3 days away can it really be that easy? I've always thought that the pain I was getting in the morning was the way I had slept with the bad back and not actually being caused by the mattress itself.

    I know I really should be asking some ortho expert but there's a good collective of knowledge on here and was wondering if anyone else had experienced anything similar and what kind of mattress did you go for?I'm trying to avoid speaking to some spotty youth in dreams bed centre on his advise and wanted some first hand experience of the different mattresses. I'm thinking that full memory foam would be best, but then think perhaps it should be one of those special ortho mattresses?

    Your advise will be great fully received.

    Ps...if your in the trade and can do me a deal please PM me!!

    FFF
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 5th May 2014 at 23:44.

  2. #2
    Master gregory's Avatar
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    I suffer very rarely, and mine is the same, worse in the morning, okay once I have got out of bed (on all fours almost) and mobile, then hurts at the end of the day.

    But I am very lucky, mine may come a couple of times a year, and jolloping up on Ibuprofen as an anti-inflammatory / painkiller usually makes it tolerable for me.


    Hope you get sorted, aside from your head, your back is at the very core of your being and can really make for misery.


    Fingers crossed it can be treated.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by gregory View Post
    I suffer very rarely, and mine is the same, worse in the morning, okay once I have got out of bed (on all fours almost) and mobile, then hurts at the end of the day.

    But I am very lucky, mine may come a couple of times a year, and jolloping up on Ibuprofen as an anti-inflammatory / painkiller usually makes it tolerable for me.


    Hope you get sorted, aside from your head, your back is at the very core of your being and can really make for misery.


    Fingers crossed it can be treated.
    Cheers.

    Pain management is the key, I don't want to be reliant on drugs or get in to the cycle of seeing a back cracker. Several years ago my bro who is also an ex mech visited a cracker for mild pain and now he seems to be there monthly- the pain if anything is worse than ever before.

    FFF

  4. #4
    Master Scrubnut's Avatar
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    Have you seen a chiropractor? Mine has sorted out all sorts of back and neck problems. Just a thought.

  5. #5
    Master Cirrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrubnut View Post
    Have you seen a chiropractor? Mine has sorted out all sorts of back and neck problems. Just a thought.
    Mine is a wizard... initially - about 5 years ago - I was seeing her once a week, but between her ministrations and advice on posture and exercises I now only do so every 3 or 4 months.

  6. #6
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    suffered for years but took up lots of exercises, Pilates, and core strengthening and don't have any issues anymore. The mattress will make a difference.

  7. #7
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    A matrass has a lifespan of about 10 yrs. We bought our first memory matrass 11 yrs ago and replaced it with an new one last Winter. Althought I've never suffered from back pain etc, I think that a foam memory matrass can help: when we're on holiday (and sleep on another matrass), I mostly wake up with stiff hip joints. Something I never notice when I'm in my own bed.

    Having said that, a chiropractor can contribute as well. Why not combining both?

    Menno

  8. #8
    Master tiny73's Avatar
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    If you're bending over all the time there's also a lot of stress going through your hamstrings and gluts (a*s) which pull on your lower back. Try stretching out these muscles routinely and that may alleviate some of the symptoms.

    (sounds stupid but I did a leg session and had sharp pain in my lower back the day after, when i saw my physio he advised stretching hamstrings and gluts and lo and behold the pain went... bending over will exacerbate the tightening of the hamstrings...)

  9. #9
    Craftsman JeppeRober's Avatar
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    I have back pain as well, exactly as you described. It was extremely bad at first, where I would wake up several times during the night and would keep twisting and turning, and in the morning it would be very painful at first. I tried a chiropractor first after advice from my doctor, but didn't experience any relief after about 10 treatments. I then went to a physiotherapist who made a specially designed core training program for my back. I now do this program three times a week, and feel a lot better. I have bought a firmer mattress as well.

    I agree with Gregory, the back is extremely important for our well-being. For me anyway it has worked to strenghten the entire area, and I hope I'll be able to make it strong enough that I'll be completely untroubled by it.

  10. #10
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    Core

    I suffered many tears of lower back pain until i started doing Pilates. Strenthening the core, stretching out the back and interconnected muscles esp the hamstrings worked wonders for me. Finding a good instructor is key.

    Hope you feel better soon

  11. #11
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    I broke my back - L1 verterbra - in 2000; had a 10 hour operation with 3-level spinal fusion, and removal of 2 discs. Consequently, I need have reduced flexibility and cushioning and need to to take care of it. I can run, but don't do too much, due to jarring on hard surfaces. Bending over for extended periods - sorting papers on the dining table, washing up or gardening - leaves me very stiff. Unfortunately it doesn't give me a pink ticket from the wife, so I have to live with it. Except for the gardening - we live in an apartment.

    The research I've seen suggests bed rest is about the least effective route to recovery. The most effective is regular activity, especially around improving core strength and keeping weight under control. I've never tried Pilates, but believe it works well. Best for me is regular stretching; good posture - especially when spending all day in front of a computer - and swimming/walking. Swimming is especially good - I use a mask, snorkel and fins, to help me keep my head down and back straight, and to improve leg strength. When I swim two-three times a week (usually around a mile, in 30-35 minutes) I have much less pain and stiffness.

  12. #12
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    I've had lower back problems for a number of years. I had an intervertebral disc rupture some years ago - it was excruciating, immobilising initially - and subsequent surgery. Since then - 10 years ago or so - I have regularly done some form of exercise geared towards maintaining core strength. It's important to work all those muscles around the spine and core, and some of them are hard to get at without doing something specifically intended to "reach" them. Currently it's Pilates. I've been going twice a week for a year and a half now. The form I'm doing is a fairly strenuous workout in terms of core muscles and stretching, gets a sweeat on, but it is not intended to replace cardiovascular work.

    Before the Pilates, I went to this for years until I moved too far away:

    http://www.kieser-training.co.uk/en/...aining-london/

    Slightly eccentric, but very good. Again, the purpose for me was specifically to improve my core strength without risking injury, an important consideration.

    Whatever form of core strength exercise I've been doing, I notice that if I miss a couple of sessions I soon feel the symptoms coming back a little, as the muscles lose their tone.

    Beds: a bed that suits you is critical. One night in the wrong bed can really set things off. The one I now have is a mixture of sprung and memory foam on top - it's excellent. Well worth spending a bit of time and money getting the right one for you.

  13. #13
    Master raptor's Avatar
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    my wife is a physiotherapist
    get a firm diagnosis by a specialist
    do your sessions
    exercises to help the belt around your wait is a must
    another operation is not an iption unless you cant walk
    Germany is no 1 on spine things
    core strengthening is a must

  14. #14
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    I recently bought a good rowing machine that I use 4/5 times a week hoping that it would help relieve my lower back problems. I've been using it for a couple of months now and it indeed seems to have helped. I have less back pain and feel a lot fitter in general. For me just standing up or walking causes back pain after a short while. For this reason I chose rowing as it allows me to exercise sitting down, without placing any strain on my back. It also is a more complete exercise than say cycling.

  15. #15
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    I'm not a medical expert but I find that a firm memory type mattress is a definite help, softer mattresses seem to let your back sag into them with attendant discomfort when you get up.

    They do wear out as well, I change mine every three years.

    Hope you feel better soon.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  16. #16
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    As many have already said:
    Exercise / core strengthening
    Lose some weight, if you've got it to lose.
    Stretching, proper ones as "prescribed" by a proper physio
    A good mattress that supports you, so you can...
    Lie on your side so your spine is straight from neck to pelvis, but can curve as it should front to back.
    (spine is straight up and down but curved from the side)
    Good painkillers and anti inflammatorys when bad.
    Avoid chiropractors / back crackers

  17. #17
    Master itsgotournameonit's Avatar
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    My dads 78 and riddled with Arthritis. I spent alot of time with him looking at different options and we wasted alot of time in the process. He sleeps on a memory foam mattress now.It wasn't cheap .Probably circa £1500 but since he bought it I have never heard him complain of a poor nights sleep.

    I am not suggesting that you are old FFF but with Dad it makes sense that with his symptoms he has no contact with springs.

  18. #18
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    The only memory foam worth getting is Tempur. Others are a pale imitation as are memory toppers. They take a few nights sleep to get used to but once you have one you won't go back. As for lifespan, minimum ten years, ours are fine after fifteen. Expensive, but worth it if you have a problem with back pain, or hip or knee issues.

    Chiropractors are also a consideration. I used an Antipodean trained chiro for many years who uses the Activator system, no bone cracking or manipulation but brilliant in fixing problems and maintenance over many years.

    Good luck in managing or fixing your back. IMO pills are not a long term solution, pain is telling you something.

  19. #19
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    Ive had some terrible lower back pain and im not over weight or unfit.

    Went to a physio and as soon as touched my hamstrings she exclaimed they were the tightest she has ever felt and immediately got me exercises stretching them.

    Stopped stretching them of late and last week the pain come back, I obviously need to stregthen my core and sort out these damn legs!!

  20. #20
    Thanks for all the replies.

    I haven't been pain free for many months and to be virtually pain free after spending 3 nights on a memory foam is either proof or it's just pure coincidence. I know that exercise amongst other things is very important but it seems in my case other than losing a stone or 2 my mattress may be crippling me.

    FFF

  21. #21
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    A bad mattress can undo a lot of core strength work very quickly in my experience. As usedtobelurch says, it needs to provide the right amount of give and support so that your spine can remain in a natural curvature overnight.

    Best bet is to go and try some out. Tempur are really nice (I have their pillows - good pillows are also essential) but expensive. I found the combination of pocket springs and memory foam to suit me best - avoid to deep a layer of memory foam - but the disadvantage of this type is that you cannot turn the mattress (memory foam on one side only) so in theory the life of the mattress is shortened compared to those that can be turned properly. I like to change mattresses every few years so that didnít bother me.

  22. #22
    Master Dunnster's Avatar
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    We bought a Kaymed pocket sprung mattress with memory foam and gel and I can't recommend it highly enough. Personally, I find full memory foam too hot, but then some people like that. I also find regular swimming (front crawl) really helps, but then my condition, ankylosing spondylitis, responds better to regular exercise than rest. If I sit too long at work I am in agony. However, other degenerative conditions are made worse by exercise so you really need to get a diagnosis from an expert. Good luck.

  23. #23
    Grand Master
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    Best to get some proper advice from a chiropractor or physio. I find a firm mattress and sleeping on my back helps.

    Back problems are v. common.....the human race made a big mistake in getting up on 2 legs.

    Paul

  24. #24
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    I've been nursing for many years and developed a variety of back problems, mostly as when I was younger the thought that my actions then could damage me in the future never really registered.

    I've been wearing MBT shoes at work for the last year and am amazed at the difference, no more back pain except after a particularly stressful none stop shift, less fatigue in my legs and feet and all round improvement in body posture.

    Obviously my experience is a personal one but I would perhaps recommend something similar if you are on your feet all day. Plus definitely look at your mattress, I noticed a huge difference when we bought a firmer type and changed it regularly.

  25. #25
    Master NenoS's Avatar
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    Hi everybody!
    Everyone with lower back pain should read this article IMHO.
    It is a completely different approach. Helped me more than anything else.

    http://www.tensionmyositissyndrome.org/

    Comments are welcome.
    Last edited by NenoS; 7th May 2014 at 22:54.

  26. #26
    I would often wake n the morning with a slightly, stiff, tender back. When we bought a memory foam mattress the stiffness and pain was banished within a week never to return.

  27. #27
    Master Mark020's Avatar
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    Had back problems, nothing seriously but just that ache, for the last 3 years or so, bought a new matrass and pain is gone.

  28. #28
    I recently bought a new mattress in the John Lewis clearance - the chap was really helpful and I tried all of their mattresses to gauge where my money was going. The key seemed to be checking your spine is straight when lying on your side which he did for me.

    A cheaper way to go is a mattress topper which made my old mattress far more comfortable although the new mattress + topper is excellent.

  29. #29
    i've suffered from a lot of this too. Exactly as you say: when bending over the sink for cleaning teeth!

    Yoga is brilliant for stretching, relaxing and building up core strength.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by craig1912 View Post
    suffered for years but took up lots of exercises, Pilates, and core strengthening and don't have any issues anymore. The mattress will make a difference.
    Core stability exercises have always proven to be the best preventive solution for me also, for chronic lower vertebrae and facet joint wear issues caused initially by a sports injury and exacerbated by a previous manual occupation.

    I was sceptical at first when the military physios prescribed this form of treatment but have found it to be the only reliable remedy ever since.

    Also agree that mattress choice can be significant.

  31. #31
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Consider consulting an Alexander technique specialist/teacher Ö http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgplXmILzoQ Ö but make sure they are qualified and experienced.

    dunk

  32. #32
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    I have had back aches for many years before in my teens before I went into the army and started sleeping on extremely firm beds (planks with hard futon on top) and my backache slowly went away. 13 yrs later, I swear by beds that are firm, even hard and find that they offer me the best nights sleep. When I do sleep on soft beds, especially when travelling, I tend to get backaches again. So yes, your mattress will make a difference.

    Also, as many of the replies suggest, I recently took up pilates and with all the core strengthening exercises, I think its helping my bad back.

    Good luck

  33. #33
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    One likely cause of back pain is that too many people have succumbed to sedentary habits and they do not exercise sufficiently. Those who only walk as far as their garage and thence from the car park into the supermarket - or maybe only to the end of the garden (to have a fag?) - and who probably spend most of the day sitting on their backsides - will probably experience adverse reactions to their chosen way of 'living'.Consider loosening up by having a good walk several times a week - feel your blood pumping around your body afterwards and experience the resultant 'glow' - and witness those cricks in your joints and spine and muscles becoming less.

    dunk

  34. #34
    Like most here I agree stretching and exercise is the key.
    I took bucket loads of antibiotics and pain killers for chronic pelvic pain- doctors were useless.
    In the end it was research / info on the internet that cured me of the pain-
    I stopped taking pills and did certain stretches and read 'Trigger Point therapy handbook' by Clair Davies

  35. #35
    Well now 2k worse off but getting the Tempur mattress and pillows Tuesday, went for the original firmer Tempur and pillows.

    Led in store on the mattress for about 25 minutes and was very comfortable quickly so hopefully it will eliminate some of the pain

    FFF

  36. #36
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    Wish i new the answer

    I have had back pain for approx 16 years,i have worn a disc away,i have a prolapsed disc and another 2 are wearing away.
    I have had mri scans and have seen Neurosurgeons over that time.
    I have been told that they wont operate on me,as my backs not bad enough yet,even though i have chronic back pain daily(low level)and take painkillers every day.
    I have seen physios,acupuncture over the years,but find osteopaths and now a deep tissue massage helps a bit(just about cry with the deep tissue massage).
    Pretty depressing really as i am only 46,and in the past ive felt 96!
    I also get the sciatica and my back goes into a spasm and locks up,when that happens the pain is so severe i have to hit the floor.
    I class my self as reasonably fit,and not over weight,but in my previous job(industrial electrician) i installed huge panels and swa cables.
    In contracting,you injure yourself but just carry on as you don't get paid,for being off.
    I have been told i have just worn my joints away!
    I have thought about a memory foam mattress as you start to get desperate.
    Just wish someone had some answers.

  37. #37
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    Loads of replies on this thread but here's my 2p anyway.

    L5 disc & sciatica problems from age ~25. Don't need to tell you about the pain as I'm sure you already know what it can be like! Everyone is different of course but for me the route to a pain free life has been thus:

    1. Chiropractic treatment* My chiropractor is an angel and I consider she literally changed my life.
    2. Stretching exercises before I get up each morning, every day without fail (you shrink at night so warming up your back before suddenly standing after 8 hours in bed can't be a bad thing!)
    4. Firm pocket sprung mattress
    3. Ice pack after anything strenuous to reduce heat & inflammation.
    4. Regular exercises for my hamstrings

    Don't give up, just find what works for you.

    *Find a good one.

  38. #38
    I think strengthening exercises are the key. I've slowly worked my way up to 120kg squats which are incorporated into my weight training. I've never had so much as a back twinge for as long as I can remember.

  39. #39
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    Foam or Latex with a topper

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I've suffered from this on and off for the past 10 yrs, most of the time manageable but periodically very bad with the pain radiating down my legs and in to my upper back. I've been to see the doc who has basically told me to lose a bit of weight and keep taking the tablets. I've spent 27 yrs of my life bent at the waist over bonnets of cars so unfortunately there's a bit of a trend with us ex spanner monkeys. It seems that first thing in the morning is when it is at it's very worst, getting out of bed and bending over the basin to brush my teeth is very sore, but once I get moving it slowly goes off.

    We've just spent a weekend in Wales with friends where we have slept on a very firm memory type mattress and the last 3 days I have been virtually pain free, getting out of bed and bending from the waist all very better. I've never considered my mattress to be the route cause of the issue as I generally find it very comfortable but after spending these 3 days away can it really be that easy? I've always thought that the pain I was getting in the morning was the way I had slept with the bad back and not actually being caused by the mattress itself.

    I know I really should be asking some ortho expert but there's a good collective of knowledge on here and was wondering if anyone else had experienced anything similar and what kind of mattress did you go for?I'm trying to avoid speaking to some spotty youth in dreams bed centre on his advise and wanted some first hand experience of the different mattresses. I'm thinking that full memory foam would be best, but then think perhaps it should be one of those special ortho mattresses?

    Your advise will be great fully received.

    Ps...if your in the trade and can do me a deal please PM me!!

    FFF

    Hi,
    I still think you must consult with a professional, but here are a few tips that might help:
    If you have already tried a foam mattress and liked it, then this is the way to go. Foam memory mattresses are well-known for their therapeutic effect, and also, they are very warm and cozy (make you sink in and prevent from tossing and turning during sleep). These can be in different thickness, for example 11 or 13 inch - it depends on your personal feeling. The most important thing you should consider is the right level of support and the right firmness. For lower back pain it is generally recommended a medium firm mattress, and spring mattresses are NOT recommended (you don't want it anyway, just specifying).
    But apart from all that, there is another issue most people tend to ignore and it is - what is your favorite sleeping position? Are you a side sleeper, a stomach sleeper or a back sleeper? This information might slightly variate your choice: the firmness of the mattress, the necessity to buy a topper (a mattress topper is a superb thing, is can make a little but necessary change if the mattress doesn't feel perfect. Also, the topper can always be removed if not needed). So the question of sleeping position is important, but this is not all! Consider your weight. The more you weight, the firmer your mattress should be (this is the general formula).
    Hope that helps. Choosing a mattress is a challenge, but it's worth the effort, just think that it will last for about 8 years. And don't forget that it is necessary to flip some mattresses (depends on the mattress). At the time when I was making my own research (and I also suffer from lower back pain from long working hours), I came across whymattress website. What I liked about it that it doesn't try to sell me anything, but provides plenty of good info based on sleeping habits, mattress characteristics and pain types http://whymattress.com/best-type-of-...wer-back-pain/ Good luck with your search, hope you will find your dream mattress soon.

  40. #40
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    I injured a disc in my back a number of years ago and it sounds like we have similar symptoms.

    I'm no expert but when I went for physio, the therapist gave me a number of exercises which stopped the pain almost right away. Then she showed me core strengthening exercises to help ensure the pain doesn't come back. She gave me a copy of "Treat Your Own Back" by Robin McKenzie - told me its the gold standard among physiotherapists. The exercises are unbelievably simple but totally effective and can be done anywhere. I bought a copy and whenever I feel twinges coming back I do a few exercises and am pleased to say that I haven't had any major flare ups. Here's a quick link, though I am sure you can find it everywhere:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Treat-Your-B...+your+own+back

  41. #41
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    Another long term sufferer, been in and out of physio's over the years. Reiterating here, but the key things I've learned:

    1) the couch is a killer! I always thought a desk job was the main culprit but my back is much worse when I'm off work and spending longer amounts of time on the couch.
    2) often a major factor is posture. But it's a habit of a lifetime and very difficult to correct. Still, try your best, try to become aware of hunching etc.
    3) lower back pain is often due to tight ham-strings putting strain on your pelvis and pulling it back. Stretching should become part of your daily routine, like brushing your teeth.
    4) take up pilates or yoga. I "yeah, yeah'd" this suggestion to doctors and physio's for several years until I got desperate. It really has been life-changing.
    5) regarding mattresses, going for firm isn't a hard and fast rule, as others have said, it's all about spinal alignment. I'm a relatively small/light guy, so medium works better for me.

    Above all else, without core exercise & stretching, you're pretty much guaranteed long term pain until you address these.

    On that note, I'm thinking about a new mattress soon - I'd tried a memory foam topper in the past but found them sweat boxes. Don't suppose the full mattresses are any better?

  42. #42
    Had a bad back for 2 years or so. Had physio weekly. Nothing worked. Turns out it was a daily low-dose antihistamine pill I was prescribed. Stopped taking that particular antihistamine, backache disappeared. If I go back to that particular antihistamine group, my backache returns the next day. My point is that it's worth looking at any long-term medication you are taking, as that can cause backache.

  43. #43
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    I have 3 collapsed disks and my physio exercise and stretching are now part of daily life and it helps a lot I also used to love hard mattresses after my back problems I can't use them now

  44. #44
    Master tiny73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrig View Post
    On that note, I'm thinking about a new mattress soon - I'd tried a memory foam topper in the past but found them sweat boxes. Don't suppose the full mattresses are any better?
    The toppers are average to be honest. I bought a silentnight seven zone memory foam mattress a year or so ago (bought online but the reviews were really good) and I can't get on with it as its too hard. I added a three inch memory foam topper which has taken the edge off but it's still a compromise and as a result I've had to accept defeat and get a new one.

    I spent a bit of time looking at mattresses and went for a Barker & Stonehouse version that combines traditional Spring with memory foam granules. The store demo mattress was four years old and still felt incredibly supportive but with the memory foam "give". It should arrive imminently and I'm very hopeful of its comfort.

    The tempur ones looked really good and felt amazing but at nearly £2k I couldn't justify it.

  45. #45
    We have a VI Spring mattress with a topper from https://www.devonduvets.com/Devon-Du...s?currency=GBP

    Whole kit cost about £2500 but in my opinion worth every penny. We tried memory foam, but neither of us really got on with it and I hated it for the temperature - found it ridiculously hot (which is a common complaint apparently). If you do go memory foam then Tempur or Mammoth (Mammoth supplied the beds and mattresses for the Olympic Village in 2012 and they are very comfy).

    We went pocket sprung and VI Spring are about as good as it gets. Has helped my wife back and my general aches and pains no end. Just make sure you get the right spring tension for each of you (ours is a half and half split down the middle between light tension and medium tension, so we each have the right tennis for us)

    As for your own back, assuming no skeletal damage (hairline fractures, slipped disks etc), then I would suggest investing in a good quality foam roller (trigger point are the best http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trigger-Poin...s=triggerpoint) and learning how to roll your hip flexors, calves, hammies and IT band - high possibility that if you've been bent at the waist for many years then your hip flexors and hamstrings have taken the hit and are shortened - pulling on your lower back.

    Oh, and steer clear of chiropractors!

    All the best

    Ash

  46. #46
    Master Caruso's Avatar
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    Back pain can have more than 1 cause. A good mattress and the right exercises are a very good start. But there are conditions that these won't make go away such as disc problems or sciatica.

  47. #47
    Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    As said above, first thing to do is get a firm memory foam mattress then visit a professional to get assessed and exercise.

  48. #48
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtennisguru View Post
    Oh, and steer clear of chiropractors!
    That's a pretty broad piece of advice. I've found both chiropractors I've seen to be the most insightful and least indoctrinated medical practitioners to date. Isn't it a little irresponsible to advise this on an open forum when you may be turning people away from exactly what they need, and shouldn't people make up their own minds based on their own exploration of what works best for them?

  49. #49
    Grand Master
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    I have shoulder and back issues.
    I use phiten titanium disks on them. You can get them from Amazon.
    Swear to god they're brilliant. I can still be sore when on a mix of cocodamol and diclofenac but stick 10+ disks on and the relief lasts for days.

    Usually i detest any naturopathy nonsense but they really work for me.

  50. #50
    Grand Master
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    These

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