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Thread: Christopher Ward - Bel Canto, further delays

  1. #1
    Master
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    Christopher Ward - Bel Canto, further delays

    Just got an email about my Bel Canto from CWard
    That watch was ordered in December 2022 and in January 2023 I got this.

    "I am now pleased to confirm your watch will be delivered to you in September.
    The manufacturing process of your Bel Canto will commence in June with assembly, QC and final regulation happening in August."


    Ok so 9 months from Ordering to receipt, ok, not ideal but I can handle that.

    In August 2023 (one month before delivery) I get this

    "I am contacting you personally about a delay to your C1 Bel Canto.

    As well as being a stunning example of elite horology, the Bel Canto is an incredibly complicated watch to produce and we have experienced some problems in achieving the quality of finishing of the bridges to our exacting standards.

    I’m pleased to say that our technical team, working with our manufacturing partners have overcome these difficulties and we’re now able to increase our production numbers.

    However, we are quite a long way behind schedule, meaning there will be a delay on the original date provided to you. Your new delivery date, I can confirm, will now be Jan 2023."


    Today I get this email
    "I am writing to let you know that your Bel Canto has been further delayed slightly and will now be ready by Mid-Feb. I know this is frustrating news, for which I apologise.

    To make the despatch of your new Bel Canto as rapid and frictionless as possible once we have completed our quality checks, I wanted to give you the opportunity to complete the purchase a little sooner than is usual. To this end, within the next week you will receive a further email guiding you through the final payment process."


    So after 14 months I still havent got my watch, and now they would like me to pay the balance of just over £2000, apparently this is an "opportunity" for me to part with 2 big ones.
    At no point have they said, have a free strap, get an extended warranty on us, get your first service FOC, do you think Christopher Ward are in trouble? This seems like an awfully long wait for a UK watch to the UK.

    Rant over

  2. #2
    Grand Master TaketheCannoli's Avatar
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    Hmmm, something stinks in suburbia. That 'opportunity' garbage really grates on me. You've not been treated well at all there. I'd take this as on 'opportunity' to walk away a couple of grand better off. I assume you'll get your deposit back?

    As for them being in trouble, surely not? Although now being associated with Everton may have affected sales ;)

  3. #3
    I don't have the patience for pre-orders and that last email would have me asking for the deposit back tbh.

  4. #4

    Christopher Ward - Bel Canto, further delays

    Quote Originally Posted by acg View Post
    I don't have the patience for pre-orders and that last email would have me asking for the deposit back tbh.
    This. I can’t help but feel they’re setting you up for disappointment after so much anticipation.

    I accept there’s not much else out there as interesting for the money but I’d be telling them where to go with talk of opportunities to complete purchase sooner than expected. I wonder whether they’ve already lost quite a few buyers and are trying to nail down the ones that still haven’t jumped ship.

    I would also expect some form of remediation, as per your musings, OP, it’s just good business.

  5. #5
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    Would offer them an opportunity to receive payment later than they anticipate. Or to return your deposit.

  6. #6
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    You wouldnt pay if it was builders demanding the money,I would ask for my deposit back or pay when the watch actually exists here and now.

  7. #7
    Master
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    How generous of them, giving you the opportunity to pay the balance early without even getting a guarantee the watch will be with you by this latest promised date!

    I'd be emailing them sharpish to request a full refund of whatever deposit has been paid. Or if you're set on the watch, telling them you'll pay the remainder as per the original agreement but what can they offer in way of recompense for the repeated delays.

  8. #8
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    Depends how much you still want the watch.

    I like the Bel Canto and CW in general, but emails like that grate me and would make me want to throw my toys out.

    To compare, I've had a Clemence Munro on order since October. Got an update email recently, saying they are finally in production but they are upgrading the regulation of each watch as a bonus.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktotty View Post
    Just got an email about my Bel Canto from CWard
    That watch was ordered in December 2022...

    "To make the despatch of your new Bel Canto as rapid and frictionless as possible once we have completed our quality checks, I wanted to give you the opportunity to complete the purchase a little sooner than is usual. To this end, within the next week you will receive a further email guiding you through the final payment process."
    Suggested response:

    "Is it true that you're also making this in brass:

    https://www.christopherward.com/c65-...-B00V0-B0.html

    to match your neck?

    Best"

  10. #10
    Master DeepThought's Avatar
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    Christopher Ward - Bel Canto, further delays

    I wouldn’t be paying the 2K upfront.

    It allows them to delay and delay and as you have paid for it, they are hoping you won’t pull the plug on your order as you have cash in it already.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Master
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    Cheap (free!) way for them to have some working capital for anyone deciding to pay upfront especially given the current rate of interest.

  12. #12
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    What a patronising p***take email from them! CW have definitely sunk in my estimation; agree with others - they should be offering something by way of compensation, not weaselling early payment!

    Problem here is do you really want the watch? They won't give a damn if you cancel as they'll have a waiting list a mile long, annoyingly. So don't shoot yourself in the foot if you still actually want the watch.

  13. #13
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    It's not impressive but it boils down to asking you to pay for a watch they're saying will be ready within 2 weeks?

    As mentioned if you still want the watch then what point is there in cutting off your nose to spite your face? Isn't there still a huge waiting list for these?

  14. #14
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    What would be really impressive here is if you paid, it got delayed again, then they told you because of a price rise you’re now 5% shy.

  15. #15
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    Maybe thread should be titled "Great news - will soon have my Bel Canto - at last!"

    And "they have sorted out the finishing issues to the bridges, so I am sure I will be chuffed".

    "And they apologised".

    Enjoy.

    Be with you in a fortnight.

    Get it paid and don't take the shine off it.

    Lucky chap!

  16. #16

    Christopher Ward - Bel Canto, further delays

    Apart from asking for early payment which wasn’t part of the deal I don’t really see much of an issue here to be honest. It all depends on the terms and conditions when you placed your order but I suspect your deposit secures your watch and the price. If not, then early payment certainly will protect you from any potential price rises.

    Currently, AnOrdain want you to pay to join their waiting list with over a year before you even get to choose which watch you wish to buy! I paid upfront for my Dornblüth without knowing how long my wait would be be apart from an estimate of 9-14 months. I paid for my Yema Wristmaster with in house Microrotor movement via Kickstarter as an upfront payment and then waited 18 months including an annoying 6 month delay. I suppose what was key were my expectations being managed from the start and that the companies were transparent with what was happening.

    Delayed delivery is always annoying but when getting a unique and special watch then sometimes allowances need to be made and if the company is keeping you up to date then your only choice is to either wait or ask for a return of your deposit and step out of the queue.
    Last edited by paw3001; 6th February 2024 at 01:34.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    I don’t really see much of an issue here to be honest.
    I think the issue is the patronising tone of the email giving an "opportunity" to pay early. It's not an opportunity for me to part with my money earlier than is necessary, especially when their track record suggests they don't keep their promises.
    The tone should have been contrition at least or more acceptably an offer of a bonus by way of a thank you for remaining loyal in the face of delays.
    This thread will certainly make me think twice about buying direct from C.W..
    If this is the way they treat customers buying their most expensive watches how do they treat the ones they can more readily afford to lose?

  18. #18

    Christopher Ward - Bel Canto, further delays

    Quote Originally Posted by tobywatches View Post
    I think the issue is the patronising tone of the email giving an "opportunity" to pay early. It's not an opportunity for me to part with my money earlier than is necessary, especially when their track record suggests they don't keep their promises.
    The tone should have been contrition at least or more acceptably an offer of a bonus by way of a thank you for remaining loyal in the face of delays.
    This thread will certainly make me think twice about buying direct from C.W..
    If this is the way they treat customers buying their most expensive watches how do they treat the ones they can more readily afford to lose?
    Not sure I agree as I find tones in emails to be difficult to decode correctly due to people’s own biases. I have already commented on their request for payment and so won’t repeat that.

    I still don’t see CW as doing anything untoward or different from other companies in similar situations. I certainly don’t see them as being untrustworthy or treating people badly. In my dealings with CW, I have found them to be very customer focused with good service. Bear in mind that the OP has ordered their most unique and complex watch which has gone beyond their wildest expectations regarding its popularity and with which they admit they are having difficulty in managing this demand.

    I see them as being very open and transparent in their communication and as I say a delay is always annoying and frustrating when ordering a new item. However, I feel that this demand for some kind of compensation is a little opportunistic to me because if you were that offended by being told of the delay and believe the company to be treating you badly then you can walk away and claim your deposit back. I am sure someone will be more than happy to take your spot and wait!
    Last edited by paw3001; 6th February 2024 at 01:42.

  19. #19
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    It's not impressive but it boils down to asking you to pay for a watch they're saying will be ready within 2 weeks?
    They have already blown three deadlines so why believe this one?

    Sent from my SM-S928B using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktotty View Post
    Just got an email about my Bel Canto from CWard
    That watch was ordered in December 2022 and in January 2023 I got this.

    "I am now pleased to confirm your watch will be delivered to you in September.
    The manufacturing process of your Bel Canto will commence in June with assembly, QC and final regulation happening in August."


    Ok so 9 months from Ordering to receipt, ok, not ideal but I can handle that.

    In August 2023 (one month before delivery) I get this

    "I am contacting you personally about a delay to your C1 Bel Canto.

    As well as being a stunning example of elite horology, the Bel Canto is an incredibly complicated watch to produce and we have experienced some problems in achieving the quality of finishing of the bridges to our exacting standards.

    I’m pleased to say that our technical team, working with our manufacturing partners have overcome these difficulties and we’re now able to increase our production numbers.

    However, we are quite a long way behind schedule, meaning there will be a delay on the original date provided to you. Your new delivery date, I can confirm, will now be Jan 2023."


    Today I get this email
    "I am writing to let you know that your Bel Canto has been further delayed slightly and will now be ready by Mid-Feb. I know this is frustrating news, for which I apologise.

    To make the despatch of your new Bel Canto as rapid and frictionless as possible once we have completed our quality checks, I wanted to give you the opportunity to complete the purchase a little sooner than is usual. To this end, within the next week you will receive a further email guiding you through the final payment process."


    So after 14 months I still havent got my watch, and now they would like me to pay the balance of just over £2000, apparently this is an "opportunity" for me to part with 2 big ones.
    At no point have they said, have a free strap, get an extended warranty on us, get your first service FOC, do you think Christopher Ward are in trouble? This seems like an awfully long wait for a UK watch to the UK.

    Rant over
    I think I’ve just done my research.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  21. #21
    Master Rocket Man's Avatar
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    For me the problem with this email is the word "opportunity." If they said that they were simply giving you the "option" to pre-pay in order to speed up delivery then that would be fine.

    Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post
    For me the problem with this email is the word "opportunity." If they said that they were simply giving you the "option" to pre-pay in order to speed up delivery then that would be fine.

    Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
    Agreed


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post
    For me the problem with this email is the word "opportunity." If they said that they were simply giving you the "option" to pre-pay in order to speed up delivery then that would be fine.
    This exactly. It does somewhat imply (whether true or not) that they're in need of some cash injection.

    Quote Originally Posted by uktotty View Post

    Today I get this email

    "I am writing to let you know that your Bel Canto has been further delayed slightly and will now be ready by Mid-Feb. I know this is frustrating news, for which I apologise.

    To make the despatch of your new Bel Canto as rapid and frictionless as possible once we have completed our quality checks, I wanted to give you the opportunity to complete the purchase a little sooner than is usual. To this end, within the next week you will receive a further email guiding you through the final payment process."
    Re-reading this sentence, it makes it seem like you won't have an option but to pay up early (I might be wrong). If that were me, I'd be bailing right now purely on principle.

  24. #24
    Grand Master Dave E's Avatar
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    It's the word 'opportunity' that does the heavy lifting here. It takes it from 'these delays are annoying, but at least I'm going to get a watch I want' to 'you patronising gits, where's my watch?'.
    Dave E

    Skating away on the thin ice of a new day

  25. #25
    It seems a bit of an odd email to send from CW, if the watch is going to be ready by mid February (So in about 1 or 2 weeks at most) why send out a message to ask the customer to pay before they get the confirmation the watch is ready? I have had watches on order in the past but only got an email to say payment is due when the watch is ready to be shipped, its frustrating when things are delayed but I dont really understand the logic of asking someone to pay what seems to be only a few days prior to the watch being ready to be shipped.

    I have bought a few CW watches over the years and never had a problem with their customer service which I know from reading some online comments can be a bit up and down at times they do always seem to try and put things right. From reading the email they are suggesting that when they are asking for payment the watch is actually in their possession and good to go and maybe they are just taking early payment so they can get deliveries sent out in an orderly way (I do know there have been complaints in the past regarding CW when they have for example sales in how watches are sent out) Perhaps it may be best to just drop them an email to say can you confirm that if I make payment on X date that the watch will be dispatched on Y date?

    I have read however, that the cost of parts have gone up over the past few years and are getting harder to purchase by companies. Add to that CW watches are not "UK watches" but made abroad.

    Regarding you deciding not to buy, I really doubt there is such a big wait list for anything these days. During the previous 12 months I have had plenty of emails trying to encourage me to buy watches that previously had been "Sign up to be on the wait list" or "Register your interest" Unless you really want the watch the days of FOMO are long gone.

  26. #26
    Master
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    I cancelled my Bel-Canto order last month, it really grated me that Z listers were getting one offs while us mugs sat patiently waiting (see CW Instagram pages)
    When I cancelled, the question ‘why are you cancelling Sir, is there anything we can help you with’ never came up. It then took another 7 days to get my deposit back. Very shoddy.

  27. #27
    Master
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    Just a thought it is a genuine email and not from a con man?

  28. #28
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    Delayed delivery is always annoying but when getting a unique and special watch then sometimes allowances need to be made and if the company is keeping you up to date then your only choice is to either wait or ask for a return of your deposit and step out of the queue.
    It's really past the point of being called unique, special maybe but certainly not unique, there must be thousands out there by now and goodness knows how many different colour dials. It would also irritate the life out of me, as someone commented previously, 'special' customers having 'special' versions made while everyone else waiting times are being extended.

    that said, the email wouldn't offend me at all. They're saying that a payment link will be sent by mid February and the watch will be ready by mid February. Seems to fit doesn't it? I'd reply and make sure that the watch is or will be ready by the time the payment link comes through but assuming it is, I'd be happy to proceed.

  29. #29
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Not the best business "opportunity" as I see it. I'm afraid I'd be swerving it personally...

  30. #30
    Did they honor the dispatch date for your watch?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Did they honor the dispatch date for your watch?
    They must surely have dealt with their backlog by now, as they've just announced a limited edition of 10 to be sold only at the British Watchmakers' Day on 9th March. It would be one in the eye for patient customers if they did that whilst they still had preorders waiting to be filled.

  32. #32
    Master
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    Sorry for the delay, I finally bit the bullet and took the "opportunity " to part with a further couple of grand. Here are the results.

    Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

  33. #33
    Do you think it was worth the wait? That is a lovely piece.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jmarchitect View Post
    Do you think it was worth the wait? That is a lovely piece.
    Yes, would like to know your thoughts on your new watch OP

  35. #35
    Craftsman
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    Hmm, how to tell the time from a bag of spanners. Hope you love it- we are all different.

  36. #36
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    That is glorious - that violet has to be the best colour they've used.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    Hmm, how to tell the time from a bag of spanners. Hope you love it- we are all different.
    I am sure you will be comfortable with a typical dive watch from one of the hundreds of manufacturers copying the same style.

  38. #38
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    I am sure you will be comfortable with a typical dive watch from one of the hundreds of manufacturers copying the same style.
    I'm always comfortable with a watch I can read the time - at a glance with, if I can't I'll not bother wearing it.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  39. #39
    Master gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    That is glorious - that violet has to be the best colour they've used.
    Agreed, very tempted by one of these. Nice to see something different.

  40. #40

    Christopher Ward - Bel Canto, further delays

    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    I'm always comfortable with a watch I can read the time - at a glance with, if I can't I'll not bother wearing it.
    I can definitely see a big hand and a little hand.

    Once the watch becomes familiar you will instinctively know where to look.

  41. #41
    Craftsman
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    Getting increasingly tempted by this


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  42. #42
    Craftsman
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    I don't think I'd ever buy one, but these do look absolutely incredible, and hopefully one day I'll get the chance to at least try one on in the flesh.

    I do have the Bulova Accutron Spaceview, and the more recent quartz powered Accutron II, and this to me has a similar vibe ...

    Every collection should have what I like to call the "Hot Date or Bling" watch :-)

    Enjoy !

  43. #43
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 459GMB View Post
    Every collection should have what I like to call the "Hot Date or Bling" watch :-)
    Thanks for helping me identify a possible hole in my collection, no really, much appreciated

  44. #44
    Grand Master Daddelvirks's Avatar
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    Lovely dial to look at, but for other reasons than reading the time.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  45. #45
    Craftsman Croftrock's Avatar
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    Mine arrived yesterday. It’s an absolute work of art and the chime is charming. It’s spectacular and genuinely mesmerising.

    Meanwhile, I have zero idea what time it is unless I’m standing in direct sunlight. So…. Hmmmm.




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  46. #46

  47. #47
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Croftrock View Post

    Meanwhile, I have zero idea what time it is unless I’m standing in direct sunlight. So…. Hmmmm.
    Lovely thing for sure but I would not be able to check the time without my glasses.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  48. #48
    Looks fab. Don’t we have phones and computers to tell us the time?!


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  49. #49
    Craftsman Croftrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    8.30?
    :) Touché!

    Granted I can see it in the photo no problem but I promise you in real life, with my eyes and without direct light shining on it, it always looks like it’s 3:15.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  50. #50
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    It's a bit of a 'DERP!' move not to have painted the part of the bridge supporting under the dial in the same colour as the dial rather than leaving it silver. I guess a decent watchmaker could mod it, but you need to be 100% sure it's a keeper before considering modding...

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