I've just ordered my first watch from outside the EU - a new Vostok Amphibia from Meranom. I've not done this before, but seen some threads ranting about customs etc. I'm quite happy to pay the customs and handling charges etc, but how does it actually work? Can someone who has done this explain the process to me please? Does my watch get impounded by customs until I cough up, or is there (shock horror) some efficient way to deal with it all?
Thanks
UK customs and excise may require you to pay duty on the item you are importing. You may also have to pay handling fees and VAT. It's all a bit of a roulette game really.
Generally the shipping agent (Fed Ex or similar) pays the duty on your behalf and then sends you the bill. Some deliver and trust you to pay up some demand money up front before delivery.
1) The incoming item will be assessed for import taxes (e.g. VAT, Customs Duty, Excise Duty etc.) by the Border Force (on behalf of HMRC). The only tax that is of interest in practice for most watch-related shipments is VAT at 20% on the total value of the watch and postage. Customs Duty can also apply to watches but only for multi-watch shipments (and is never much).
2) What happens next depends on the courier being used.
a) Fedex and UPS will deliver the item first and then bill you later for any tax due plus their handling fee.
b) Royal Mail will not let you have the watch until any tax due and their handling fee has been paid. Usually you get a card in the post which allows you to pay the charge online or go to the Delivery Office in person and pay and collect the watch. In my experience some Delivery Offices will send the item out with a postman and see if you can pay the charge in cash on the doorstep; if not they take it back to the Delivery Office.
c) Parcelforce will send you a card in the post allowing you to pay tax due and their handling fee online. The item will then be delivered.
In my experience, shipments from Russia often get through without being taxed, as do most shipments from China, Singapore and Hong Kong. But be prepared for the taxes from anywhere outside of the EU.
Last edited by markrlondon; 2nd March 2014 at 18:35.
Thanks - sounds like a complete lottery! I'll just have to wait and see what happens....
Had a similar issue with a batch of pocket knives I bought from us. Two batches equal value, one arrived with no customs charges, the other was held by PO until Vat bill settles, it's a lottery
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I had this issue only from the US when a friend, who now moved to the US sent his iphone back to me to repair for him (who bought it in the UK), and HMRC billed me! They said "it doesnt matter" no matter how hard I argued. N oother customs charged from HK, China.. but also waiting for my vostok from Ukraine, should be no problems! (unless they stopped mail services with the recent malarkey)
DHL rang me on my phone and asked me to process payment on the phone.
My two most recent new Vostoks were delivered from the USSR with no customs interference or charges
On the other hand virtually everything other than small parts that I have ordered from the States has been held by the shipping company until I paid tax
For some the reverse has applied
As mentioned above its all a bit of a lottery I guess
This is pretty much my experience too. I've never been caught for anything from Eastern Europe but have been collared for a few American bits and pieces.Originally Posted by Velorum
The most confusing part for me is the Import Duty. All the websites, including HMRC just go on about finding what the reference code is for the type of product you're importing but don't ever actually tell you what the cost of any of this is. Seriously frustrating! However, the website http://www.dutycalculator.com/help_c...es-on-a-watch/ has some info on importing watches:
So yeah, that basically means zero import duties on individual watches. It only really takes effect if you're importing multiple watches. You will likely get billed for VAT though, so budget an extra 20% for that. And then the courier often add their own handling charge for dealing with the VAT - apparently about £10-20 depending on who the company are.Import duty on watches is not calculated on a straightforward percentage rate.
The duty payable on a watch is expressed as:
4.5% or minimum €0.3 Euro - maximum €0.8.
In general, the duty payable on a single watch normally equals €0.8.
The duty payable will be calculated at 4.5% of the customs value, unless the resultant duty is less than the minimum, in which case the duty payable will default to €0.3 per watch.
If the duty amount calculated at 4.5% of the customs value is more than the maximum, the duty payable will default to €0.8 per watch.
Let's assume we import a Rolex with a total customs value of €6,000.
Duty at 4.5% = €270, which is more than the €0.8 per watch maximum amount.
Duty payable will default to €0.8 (1 x €0.8).
Let's assume we want to import 10 watches with a total customs value of €1,000 Euro.
Duty at 4.5% = €45, which is more than the €0.8 per watch maximum amount.
Duty payable will default to €8 (10 x €0.8).
Now let's assume we want to import 100 watches with a customs value of €300.
Duty at 4.5% = €13.50, which is less than the 0.3 Euro per watch minimum amount.
Duty payable will default to 30 Euro (100 x €0.3).
To conclude, 4.5% will only apply if the duty payable per watch falls between €0.3 and €0.8
Last edited by ArghZombies; 3rd March 2014 at 01:18.
I had a long argument at my local sorting office on this one a few years ago, backed up by a fair amount of internet research beforehand (and armed with a number of printouts).
I ended up getting my parcel after paying the tax, but NOT the handling fee, on the grounds that they would be holding my goods "hostage" if they refused to give them to me after I had paid the tax that was due. I told them that they needed to invoice me separately for their handling fees. After much escalation, the manager of the Sorting Office very reluctantly agreed that I was right, and gave me my parcel. (I received an invoice for the Royal Mail's £8 fees about a week later, which I ignored, and never heard anything further. If they had chased, I would, of course, have paid it.)
There is an argument which says that you never commissioned the Royal Mail (or FedEx or DHL) to pay the customs fees on your behalf, and so they have no enforceable contract with you to make you pay their handling fees. You could, if you wished, make your own arrangements with HMRC to pay the fees due on importation (which is what businesses use shipping agents to do). I think that this has been challenged in law, and it was ruled that they can charge these handling fees - but I had lost interest by that point, so I'm not sure what the current state of play is. I suspect that if people could get away without paying the handling fees, then there would be no shortage of web sites telling you how to do it :-)
And to add to the above, there is a HMRC/Border Force policy of only collecting Import Duty if it amounts to more than £9. This means that, even if some Customs Duty is due according to the above bracketing calculation, it won't be collected unless or until there is £9 worth.
It begs the question of why they bother with the Customs Duty on watches at all. It would really only have a measurable effect on bulk shipments of very low value watches from outside the EU, but even this would be marginal. The money it raises must be trivial relative to the administrative effort. All in all, like so many bureaucratic rules and regulations, one is forced to conclude that it exists simply to justify more bureaucracy...
I just got charged by customs fir a watch from Singapore, first time it has been caught. Was from a private sale rather than Creation watches which might have been the reason?
Best bet with the import taxes is to accept it. If you get away with it, that's fine; you've been lucky.
Royal Mail and Parcel Force charge a fee for acting as tax collectors. That's their prerogative. It does seem harsh on low value items around the £45 mark, but there it is.
Strongly advise everyone to quip carping about it........it'll do you no good. I can rant with the best of 'em but it's pointless in this case.
Sensible thing to do is to be aware of the costs etc before you buy.
Paul
Oh yes. I wasn't carping, just trying to understand what the system was so I could be prepared. What all this shows is that anything could happen, and I just have to be ready when it does. My watch might get delivered and that's it, I might get an invoice later, or it might be held ransom by Royal Mail until I cough up!
Apologies for hijacking this thread but I've seen a watch in the USA that I rather fancy. There are 3 methods of shipment to choose from: Normal Registered Air Parcel Zone, FedEx Express and EMS. I've been collared for taxes with UPS before but have no experience with these 3. Is one of them more or less likely to slip through the net than than the other 2 or is it just pure luck with items from America? Ta!
They will all almost certainly get caught for taxes. Almost everything from the USA seems to get caught now, no matter what courier/postal service is used.
The only way to avoid taxes is for the sender to under-declare the value on the customs declaration which would of course be A Naughty Thing.
The only difference is in the handling charge you'll have to pay:
- "Normal Registered Air Parcel Zone" is presumably a USPS service so will arrive by either Royal Mail or Parcelforce (depending on exactly how it is classified) so the fee will be £8 by RM or £13 by Parcelforce (if I remember correctly).
- Fedex will charge whatever they charge (I can't remember what it is).
- "EMS" is an internationally agreed standard for express mail. Parcelforce is the UK's EMS provider so you'll pay Parcelforce's handling charge.
Not only would it be "A Naughty Thing", it would limit the amount you could claim if the thing went missing. Just a thought...
Rob
This is oft-stated but I see no reason for it to be the case. As I said here, http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...=1#post2970312, in an earlier discussion:
It is perfectly ok, góód, to protest against bureaucracy which solely exist to sustain itself. Imo there is way, WÁY too much shoulder shrugging and should there be massive civil disobedience against the law and law enforcement when the sysytem is not ethical. This starts with little things.
And tax fraud!
IME, normal USPS regular mail (US) to Royal Mail (UK) very rarely attracts vat (maybe 1 in 20 get caught)
Blimey, I reckon you're very lucky. Find something wooden to touch! ;-)
I find that the vast majority of items sent to me from USA this way (which are correctly declared and above the VAT collection threshold) are caught for tax nowadays.
Last edited by markrlondon; 4th March 2014 at 15:11.
My experience too.
From Russia I have yet to get the first tax bill.
From the rest of the world it is almost entirely related to the size of the package.
This is when by post!
When by courier the story changes:
Those who make money on the import service will ALWAYS have it pass customs.
On ebay this is increasingly offered by the US sellers. Guess who has a vested interest...
I always think it would be funny if someone bought a replica watch didnt declare value and it was opened for inspection and they valued it as the real deal. The buyer would be stung massively for tax.
Sound pretty complicated to me.
Wouldn't it be easier to be seek the help of a broker?
______________________________________________
Marius
W2C customs brokers
^^^^^^
See what you did there. Veiled concern, while touting for business
Classy
That's very cynical of you. Perhaps Marius just wants a chat or some attention. I'd recommend he speak to a psychologist.
______________________________________________
Lampoc
LampocsPsychology4U
I ordered 2 watches from meranom to an address in the UK and didn't have to pay any extra
Bye bye Marius
Some people in the US get very upset by customers asking them to under declare on the customs declaration . I've been told it's a federal offence and taken very seriously over there.
But most expats are happy to do it.
It is perfectly normal for some sellers to "self insure"
They use normal postage to send watches, with the only special feature being that it must be signed for.
They do not declare any value, and they do not pay for any insurance to the full value.
This way their postage is significantly cheaper.
And very few go missing, so they save money.
They can have perfectly fine replacement policies, so that if a customer yells, "Hey, my watch never arrived" they simply send out another one.
If you estimate that declaring the true value and therefore having to insure it costs a minimum of 2% of the value of a watch, then the seller makes the calculation that if less than one in 50 go missing, he is better off not declaring value and self-insuring. In reality, it is much more like 5% and the calculation has him saving money if less than 1 in 20 go missing.
I make no comment aobut whether this is right. But it certainly happens.
The other aspect of doing this is that many who receive these items pay less VAT and so forth, as the watch has a low declared value. So the buyer saves too.
Dave
See bold text above: how does that work on a customs declaration, please?
Just a quick query that rumbling around my head... If a watch was bought from outside the EU and it was either broken or unsuitable, thus returned, what would be the situation in terms of import tax? Cheers.
Here you go: Notice 266: rejected imports - repayment or remission of duty and vat.
As mentioned, Fed Ex will bill you a week or so after delivery for the VAT, duty and handling fees. On both occasions this has happened to me, a quick email to them stating that their "handling fee was not mentioned on the vendor's website so I have no intention of paying" has resulted in them instantly waiving it. Just keep it polite and they seem to react well.
When the courier/Royal Mail is holding the item until handling fee is paid, then I'll pay it. In that situation, they are being above board and saying "If you want us to deliver it, this is our fee" so I feel I can make an informed choice. It's a bit sneaky to perform a service then bill you an unagreed and seemingly arbitrary amount after the fact.
Ah, that makes sense - pay it, then claim it back. Thanks.
You're not alone, I've no idea what Morris Dancing is about..
Wow, talk about thread resurrection!
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