Reply With QuoteI saw the original thread on the CWL Forum a while back and it looked impressive. Nice to see the effect on these other brands. It does give them a funky look.
Wow what a great thread - love this sort of stuff. It is a pity about the evaporation rate of the fluid as I remember seeing an old mainboard immersed in it and overclocked something stupid - they had ordered the fluid through work however.
I saw the original thread on the CWL Forum a while back and it looked impressive. Nice to see the effect on these other brands. It does give them a funky look.
Very interesting thread. I never realised that the oil is so volatile, and I guess this means oil filled watches need to be protected from internal pressure.
That SMP looks fantastic filled with oil. I would be really interested in the timekeeeping of the watch over a month or so.
Quartz watch.....it either runs or it doesn`t.Originally Posted by djkennedy67
I`d be more concerned about the glass lifting out when the watch warms up slightly. I`ve taken crystals out of these watches several times and it doesn`t take much pressure from within. It may stand 300 metres of water from outside, but it only needs thumb pressure from inside to lift the crystal.
Can`t see why anyone would want to do this personally; another of Sinn's bright ideas that solves a non-existent problem.
What effect will the fluid (fluorinated hydrocarbon?) have on the dial, hands and seals?...........anyone's guess.
Each moving part of the movement is now lubricated with copious quantities of the liquid in question instead of Moebius 9000 or 9010 watch oil. Not quite what ETA intended.
Paul
If it is the 3M stuff we are talking about then they would claim zero effect, but it would be interesting to see if that claim stands up to a few years of submersion ;)
Hmm - looks like a fun endeavour but I don't really see the point. I quite fancy a UX as the effect on the dial looks very cool but I think I'd rather have a watch that was designed to be fluid- filled than mess about myself. I do wonder why more watches aren't made this way as it seems to make the whole 'massive case' eg the DSSD redundant - in fact now that liquid filled quartz is available what is the point in the DSSD (and other air filled auto divers) beyond knowing it's an auto and not Quartz? I would have thought the properties of an oil filled watch (easily viewed dial and as slim as you like) massively outweigh a big fat auto that turns into a mirror when not viewed face on?
As I mentioned in my post above, the watches that I filled have been running for 3 years straight with no effect on them whatsoever. When I changed the batteries last year the dials/hands/gaskets and movements were all unaffected, the lume didn't fall out and it still glows.
I'm sure many of us have a quartz watch that's been running constantly without servicing since the early 80's. It's most likely that the oil that ETA applied is now either completely dry, or has become contaminated to the point of being little more than a grinding paste. So I wonder if washing the oil off and running lubricated metal on metal will cause any wear at all? Time will tell I guess (provided I can be bothered to keep changing the batteries and refillling every 2 years!)
The watch industry is littered with solutions to non-existent problems - at the end of the day, there is very limited practical use for this, it's just a bit of fun.
Rich.
Hi Paul,
I agree it fixes a non-existant problem and isn't for everyone. For me, I like the effect but don't like the look of any of the commercially available liquid-filled watches. This way I get a watch I like the style of, and get to try out the effect.
When I used to Scuba dive, the deepest I ever went was 50 metres, and that gave me a bottom time of almost nothing before having to come back up and do decompression stops. Most of my watches are already overkill for what I might ever need.
How's things anyway? I haven't been on the forum much recently. I do have a couple of watches in need of your treatment, which I should get around to sending across soon. I could alway include the oil filled watch for you to look at in the flesh, if you're at all curious.
All the best,
Dan
I largely agree and would have gone with a commercially available watch... except that I don't like the look of any of them.
It would have been interesting for Rolex to put a liquid filled quartz next to their DeepSea Challenge watch when James Cameron went to the bottom of the Mariana trench. I suppose it doesn't require the same level of engineering prowess... I can make an oil filled quartz in my kitchen, a DeepSea Challenge, would be harder!
- - - Updated - - -
So far so good, over 24 hours in fluid and it's not gained or lost anything I can measure, still to the second accurage of timeanddate.com
+1
35 years in the chemical industry taught me a few things about materials compatibility; it can be difficult to predict. I`ve done plenty of testing in my time to check these effects on chemical plants.......and I never ceased to be amazed at some of the results. The likelihood is that it'll be OK, but there's only one way to find out.
I`m very much on the 'why would you do this?' page......maybe I`m missing a trick.
Each to their own; Dan's a good guy and I`ve worked on a few of his watches, but I`ll agree to differ on this one!
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 25th February 2014 at 19:42.
To ask a dumb question.....
What happens when you pull the crown out? Wouldn't it leak oil?
Could it be that you are thinking too hard about it? :-) I.e. You are looking for a rational, intellectual reason that isn't really there in most cases. Another equally valid (but equally non-defining) question might be: "<shrug> Why shouldn't you do it?"
The route to discovery is found along the paths of "let's see what happens" and "why not". ;-)
Not dumb.
Short answer is nothing, you can pull the crown out and change the day / date and screw back down when you're done. No leaks.
I spent a career working in laboratories and carrying out development work; I`ve got first-hand experience of the 'route to discovery' and I`ve got the badge & T-shirt for 'let's see what happens' etc.
Now I spend my time putting watches together, going to great pains to avoid contamination of any type getting into the watch.....it's totally counter-intuitive to deliberately fill the thing with a fluid other than air.
As for putting foam inside the watch to safeguard against expansion, it doesn`t completely eliminate the risk of the crystal lifting. It reduces it somewhat but the fact remains that positive pressure is being generated inside the watch. Yes, it'll overcome the hydraulic effect, but the watch case is still being subjected to pressure from within....and that's never a good thing.
If I didn`t know better I`d think it was April 1st......all this to subtly alter the appearance of the watch and (subjectively) gain some sort of aesthetic advantage.
Paul
The fluid Sinn used originally in their hydro watches reacted with the lume and discoloured it, so the problem isn't just theoretical. This fluid seems to avoid that problem though.
FWIW - I don't think your over thinking it, Paul. I never imagined the aesthetics would appeal enough to everyone to outweigh the risks and drawbacks.
I am pleased with the results, and that outweighs the possible issues for me.
Not sure that's an issue though - other watches discolour over time and that can be considered appealing... It's an experiment and I am prepared for possible issues: from faults, leaks, discolouring etc.
I actually think Sinn has not yet completely solved the discoloration issue. I have a UX that's using the new fluid which i guess must have been sitting in their dealer's stock room for 3 years before i bought it. The hour, minute and second hands are already starting to discolor and turn a very light shade of beige. Strangely the markers and text on the dial are unaffected and still a brilliant white. But the lume is also dim and goes dark very quickly.
Just on google looking up oil filled watches for a future project and I rediscovered this thread.
Any update from the OP? I'd be interested to know how the watch has faired over the last 12 months.
Did Mike ever take it sat diving?
I tried it with a lovely Casio dive watch with domed crystal thinking it would be a piece of cake.
The only easy part of the process was f ucking it up completely by using the wrong type of silicone oil, which took all of 30 seconds to do.
The positive side of it is that I've now got a lovely Casio dive watch case with domed crystal waiting for a new movement to turn up one day .
G
Very interesting indeed
would be wicked to see an LCD Casio with some LHM (green Citroen hydraulic fluid)
Though as a balance wheel would not work in oil, even the very thinnest stuff, how would a seiko spring drive do?
Not very well I hear you all shout. Possibly due to the brakes not having enough friction to slow down the movement enough
My extra virgin filled one has a definitely greenish hue and is still going strong.
Better viz of the screen and wr, no sweating even under the august andalucian sun.
Oh and it is a wonderfull conversation piece blowing the rest out of the water. Ok, maybe not the Vodolaz, that one makes for an hilarios conversation too but I think the F91-W holds the edge.
This is awesome, I love stuff like this. I take it it wouldn't work with a mechanical due to the increased resistance? I'd love to make one of my own, but the costs involved are somewhat prohibitive purely for the novelty factor.
Read the F91-W link
I don't understand what you've done or why, but congratulations on writing one of the most unusual threads I've ever read. For me, this is up there with the guy that used his Patek chrono underwater to see if it would work!
The what:
I have made the F91-W 5.000 meters WR at no cost and improved the read out viz at the same time.
The how:
Because the caseback and window are flexible there is no issue with expansion and the liquid filling prevents compression. It is now as WR as the electronic components are pressure resistant.
The why:
I now have an F91-W I can wear when I go down into the river too.
I created one of THE coolest of party conversation pieces :-)
Because it was part of a science with watches project with my son.
Because I could.
Thanks to those who have posted pics, especially the Seiko Tuna before and after. Perhaps one day all watches will be made this way.
I have a genuine urge to oil-fill a watch, I really want to do a PRS 18-Q (whilst turning it destro). Just because.
I approached most of the guys who posted in this thread, but there is reluctance because:
1 It is not something they want to be responsible for
2 the proper stuff (ignoring olive oil for the moment) is fluorinert, which is ferociously expensive, and, I understand, prone to evaporating. As such, no-one has any.
So I wonder, is there any problem with using transformer oil???
It is cheap, relatively abundant, insulates totally and doesn't evaporate. It is even available recycled, and one Ebay seller is doing it for £12 for 5 litres.
Anyone know why this wouldn't work??
Dave
Ever since seeing the Ressence in the flesh I've had a hankering to play with this process - now, what out there has a combination of good looks and solar power he muses....
I reckon a 'Ray Mears' could be a good'un
DOT 5.1 silicon brake oil works.
Be warned any lower DOT brake fluid is too corrosive, and also hydroscopic, Mineral oil is advised you can get some funky coloured stuff for Bike disc brakes (reds) and the green citroen one
but Extra virgin oil can be a very cool green colour and thinner
definately worth a try with a quartz tuna - I don't own any quartz watches but now I do want to!
An of course if you are creative with the colour of the hands and lume, and have deep pockets, the Ressence:
though this is an aoutomatic, I suspect the display is isolated in the fluid and not the movement?
Last edited by Xantiagib; 21st April 2015 at 08:08.
First time I've read this, fantastic thread just looking for a quartz now.I would be interested on any future updates and agree Eddies 18q would look superb.
Has anyone considered using fluorinert?
It doesn't conduct electricity and is designed for cooling electronics by submersing them in it. It is really stable, doesn't degrade or change much with normal temperature levels.
Bit pricey though.
Fluorinert is the proper thing to use, and peole have, yes. But it evaporates and is hellish expensive, so alternatives (such as EVOO etc) are being sought.
I was just going to post about the electrical resistance of oils and its effect on the electronics
Very impressive little project you have there. I own a Bell & Ross Hydromax which is oil filled and I think they use a specially high torque movement to counter act the drag but, like you suggest, even if yours is affected it will likely remain more accurate than your mechanical pieces.
Well done.
I promised progress updates on this little project and then promptly forgot... but a quick update now:
~3.5 years on and both Omega SMP's (I did a black faced one, too) are working fine. They have not needed a battery change, have not leaked, the Fluorinert has not damaged or discoloured anything and both are keeping as good time as any other Quartz I own.
I managed to get 2x spare 1538 movements just in case.
A salesman in an Omega boutique in London was absolutely entranced by the black one, when I popped in for a browse and happened to be wearing it a few months back.
Two of the other liquid filled watches I did have failed, however... but I am unsure if the cause was related. In both cases (a Victorinox and a Citizen), they worked well for 2+ years, then the battery went flat (they had indications before stopping) and a replacement battery has failed to revive them.
And here they are, with a non oil filled 2254 at the end for comparison
Well done mate.
Seconded. That's a brilliant experiment and I'm glad it's going strong!
Did Seadog ever take one sat diving then?
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Ah, I forgot about this thread now I want buy a Quartz SM and copy you. They look awesome.
I wonder if the other failures are due to movements of less quality? It must accelerate wear on components to 'push' the hands through the oil so maybe they've just had a few years worth of wear in a shorter time.
He offered, but I didn't get around to sending him one. I am easily distracted....
me too.
Possibly... I wonder whether letting them run completely flat causes additional mechanical issues.
I do want to find a cheap 2264 (if there is such a thing anymore) and do that too, just to round out the set. But I have just ordered a Seiko Padi Solar to see if that will work... no reason why it shouldn't, I guess.
Given the success of the SMP's, I am on the look out for other watches which use the ETA 255.461 movement, as that is (as I understand it) basically the same as the one in the Omega.
Damn it, why does this place want me to spend money on things. That looks amazing!
I’ve only 2 quartz in my collection, a tuna and a scurfa diver one. Not brave enough for the tuna, but would love to see how the scurfa worked.
That said, I can’t justify the outlay of the equipment for vacuum and the cost of the liquid, so will remain one of the ‘maybe one day’ dreams.
Visually the look is just amazing, I love it!
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I presume you cleaned the contacts etc. for the battery?
Thank-you. Yes I did, with electrical contact cleaner... and no luck, sadly.
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