17C 'Mission Timer'?

[Gunscrossed]

This arrived yesterday by mistake :lol:


It reminded me of this thread which must be due a bump :wink:
The Swiss Army above shows it must be possible to remove the sub dials?

Is there still interest in a cheapish quartz chrono based on simply a re-dial on the 17c and removing the sub dials?
Seems like a no brainer to me 8)

[HappyJack]

Yep - provided that:

We can have some decent lume on both the main and the chrono hands - one of the defining characteristics of both the EZM-1 original (it has great lume on both permanent and chrono hands), and of the PRS-17C (it doesn't!).
We can get some better-looking hour and minute hands than those on the PRS-17C.

BTW - could you fit a 251.262 quartz movement into the Sinn EZM-3 case? There would need to be some holes for the chrono pushers, but otherwise that would be a great case and dial for a similar project.

[GeoffD]

Although the simplest way is to just clip the tops from the sub hand pinions, I decided to see how problematic it would be to do it as a reversible process.
It's fairly straightforward to remove the relevant sub dial wheels from the movement, but I admit that replacing the plate is veryfiddly.



Then it's a (fairly) straight dial swap but the original dial is slightly smaller than the case will take so I'm taking advantage of that to maximise the dial viewable area.





As soon as I get some time away from working on other peoples watches to finish the new dial, I promise you'll see the result hear first

[walkuere]

Yeah!! :bounce:

Frank

[Gunscrossed]

Although the simplest way is to just clip the tops from the sub hand pinions, I decided to see how problematic it would be to do it as a reversible process.
It's fairly straightforward to remove the relevant sub dial wheels from the movement, but I admit that replacing the plate is veryfiddly.



Then it's a (fairly) straight dial swap but the original dial is slightly smaller than the case will take so I'm taking advantage of that to maximise the dial viewable area.





As soon as I get some time away from working on other peoples watches to finish the new dial, I promise you'll see the result hear first

Great work Geoff, when can I buy one :lol:

[HappyJack]

Great - look forward to seeing it.

I'm wearing GeoffD's old Fortis Chrono - if he lumes the new face and hands like he re-lumed that, it'll be a great job indeed! It really glows well in the dark and makes it a much more usable watch than many Fortis LE chrono owners report. Which should overcome a similar complaint raised by PRS-17C owners.

[andy111s]

Fascinating reading, I think there are some fine efforts here.

I've an EZM1 but would buy a quartz equivalent and this is pretty much it. I don't think Eddie needs to stay too closely to the EZM1 design, his own 'Merlin' pic definitely had its own Precista look despite being very similar in layout to the Sinn. Considering it would be the only sans subdial centre minute chrono on the market I think they'd go like hot cakes. It's an incredibly simple and effective design, rather like the Tutimas, but would obviously be much cheaper.


Diameter? 40mm
Flat sapphire with single or double sided A/R? It'd be more popular with single side AR on the inside, personally I like the AR coating outside, but many grumble, esp when it scratches.
Round or square pushers? The ones with the largest surface, for operation with gloves and to decrease "snatchability" I agree here, and some cross-hatching or similar on the operated surface.
Unidirectional or bidirectional bezel? Elapsed time or countdown? Bi-directional count-down will be most popular, but given the chrono has a timing limit of 59'59" a 1-12 bezel is equally usefull. I wonder if there is a clever design which would let you use it as both? I did have the slightly avant-garde idea to have the bezel marked with just the indices and the only numbers being 15/30/45, as per the mock up on the first page by gunscrossed
60 or 120 clicks? 60 clicks
Anti-magnetic cage? Not required due to the quartz movement?
Beadblasted or brushed? The matt-er the better - beadblasted.
Regular or destro? Destro - although sometimes more difficult to access the pushers (as they are half-way up your sleeve) thumb actuation is easier I'd say, plus the benefits of not getting them snagged or digging into the hand is a plus for me. It's the most delicate part of the watch (relatively) so keep 'em out of the way.

Readability is the big thing, the Sinn design has a technical instrument look about it but the 17 can do just as well in a different style I think.
Hour/Minute hands are fine, one better would be full lume on the hands rather than having a border I think. The second/minute are good in yeller, are these lumed though? If not I think they should be, even if it is just the top third of them. The yellow date is my favourite as well; Some of the simplicity of the Sinn is down to using just three colours - matt black/white/subdued red. In practise you only see the black and white, especially in low-light 'mission timer' conditions, if you take a similar approach and just use black/white and yellow I think you'll get the same sort of readability, albeit prioritised differently.
Along these lines I'd consider doing any script (Precista) in gloss black against a matt black dial. It'll have the appearence of a sterile dial but still have the logo/name there.
Looking at the pics above I'd prefer a more grippy bezel, but never having used it in practise I can't really say how the existing one performs (think wet gloves).

Anyway, good luck, I reckon this would be a good seller to be honest, how many people want the functionality/looks of the Sinn/RT/Tutimas etc and can't justify shelling out a few grand? Lots. It'd be nice to have a cheaper but no less functional watch available.

[Timelord]

Any news on this?

[Kundak]

I'm also curious if there is any development.

[JCJM]

Is there still interest in a cheapish quartz chrono based on simply a re-dial on the 17c and removing the sub dials?
Seems like a no brainer to me 8)

Yes. That thing would be the perfect go anywhere and do anything watch.

As you said, a big time no brainer.

[bydandie]

To me, Eddies interpretation would easily be a future classic and it's his unique designs I appreciate more than the homages.

[Timelord]

Is there still interest in a cheapish quartz chrono based on simply a re-dial on the 17c and removing the sub dials?
Seems like a no brainer to me 8)

Yes. That thing would be the perfect go anywhere and do anything watch.

As you said, a big time no brainer.

If as Eddie has indicated, there will be no more PRS-17C anytime soon, does this mean that the 17C Mission Timer is not going to happen or is it going to be a completely new watch? That would be my preference anyway.

[Timelord]

Yep - provided that:

We can have some decent lume on both the main and the chrono hands - one of the defining characteristics of both the EZM-1 original (it has great lume on both permanent and chrono hands), and of the PRS-17C (it doesn't!).
We can get some better-looking hour and minute hands than those on the PRS-17C.

BTW - could you fit a 251.262 quartz movement into the Sinn EZM-3 case? There would need to be some holes for the chrono pushers, but otherwise that would be a great case and dial for a similar project.

EZM3 case would be ideal, but then so would an oil-filled case in the same manner as the Sinn EZM2.

[nickyboyo]

Whoaaa, major thread resurrection here......

Did anyone follow through with the idea of turning Eddie's 17C into a mission timer homage?
I remember reading and following this thread closely back when it was current, and now that i have got my hands on a 17C i am very interested in redialling it so it just tells the time, shows the date and also have the elapsed second and minute hands only.

It was a great concept back in the day ;)

[OliverCD]

That really is up from the depths! Not just a great concept back in the day - it still is. I love the look though... It would be a perfect watch for football... Easy to glance at when the Ref is adding in too much extra!! Would be very interested to see it done. Go on, you know you want to!!

[swanbourne]

This is my favourite.



Eddie

[jtbold]

Closest I got was this, built with an invicta case and a bunch of parts from ebay

[K300]

liking the idea of this,

for those that think these watches are not used for anything in reality, yesterday and every other day at a race track this is my watch of choice, very good for casually recording lap times.

Things I would change on the 17C though would be:

1. A nicer case so the choice of bands and bracelets is a lot wider, currently wearing it on a Wanadoo lumpy, but very difficult to wear it on anything other than this or a NATO.

2. The dial seconds/minutes markers are too small and in low light fade into nothing and become invisible, which makes the minute bezel absolutely necessary, so if it gets changed to an hour bezel the seconds/minute markers on the dial have to be bigger/more legible otherwise the watch becomes useless.
So these markers are preferable, but take away the date and the circle L, not sure the numbers are necessary either.

3. For me the date is not necessary and just creates clutter on the dial.
4. If this design is ever brought into production I would prefer a constant seconds subdial(just like to know the thing is running and means I can time short duration(sub minute) things without even touching a button but it isn't critical and as Eddie says it would cause mechanical issues if the desire is for a lefty.
5. Slightly larger case/dial would be preferable and this may give the dial seconds/minute markers more visibility allowing for the hourly bezel to be a reality(see 2 above).

[K300]

pS. I have a spare movement for such a project so would like to know where I can get suitable parts if anybody can help. Is there a specific case I'd need, which hands would fit etc.

[Timelord]

This is my favourite.



Eddie

Is it going to be made then?

[nickyboyo]

I actually really like the 17C's case, there is something very robust and utilitarian about its dimensions and proportions. I would also keep the operating buttons where they are, I don't see the benefit of swapping sides and it starts to go down the road too much of a homage to the Sinn.
In fact i love everything about the watch, the hands are A1 in my book and are one of the things that first caught my eye with the 17C.
Nice build there jt, i would very much like to modify mine like yours, but would keep the date option and ideally keep the Precista name.
Come on Eddie, how about knocking up a few dials and having a 17C modifcation program running, I would gladly send mine back to you for modification. Now let's see some 17MT's out there in the wild.

[Timelord]

Closest I got was this, built with an invicta case and a bunch of parts from ebay

Looks good Jeff. Was it difficult to do in the end?

[Hubs]

seem to recall that the sub second spindles need to be cut to make the conversion work..

[jtbold]

Looks good Jeff. Was it difficult to do in the end?

Actually no, there is a different very common eta chronograph movement with the same dimensions, I forget the number but will look it up.

The hands and generic dial are available on ebay. I did have to have a watchmaker remove the chrono dial spindles, and in the end the spacer to keep the whole thing centered ended up being made from a zip tie.

[Timelord]

Actually no, there is a different very common eta chronograph movement with the same dimensions, I forget the number but will look it up.

The hands and generic dial are available on ebay. I did have to have a watchmaker remove the chrono dial spindles, and in the end the spacer to keep the whole thing centered ended up being made from a zip tie.

A very common quartz or mechanical calibre? I really like your watch Jeff. My only observation would be that the chronograph minute hand is better differentiated from the other 3 regular hands by the use of an 'aeroplane' hand like the PRS 17C, rather than a 'lollipop' hand. For example, compare the readability of the military Porsche Design Bund issued chronographs with the civilian versions. Both have the Lemania 5100 movement, but the military version with the 'aeroplane' orange-tipped hand is much easier to read than the civilian version with a white 'lollipop' hand.

[jtbold]

The eta G10.711 is the same size, 30mm, as the 251.262 so I looked for a donor watch using that movement. In the end I was offered a dead invicta chrono for free. I agree with you on the airplane style hands and I looked for them, Eddie did not have any extras and neither did the people who built the 17c for him so in the end I looked on ebay and this was the only set available for this movement.

[GS Overland]

• This is my favourite.

Eddie

A mission timer would be a great idea im in for one definately, either Eddies preffered offering above or one of the PRS17 versions on this thread would be a superb watch, very useable and discreet another quartz chrono is definately the way forward!!!. How about a non-refelctive DLC or PVD version as well. Liking this, all we need now is more people on board so Eddie might just take it further.

[Timelord]

[LIST][*]

A mission timer would be a great idea im in for one definately, either Eddies preffered offering above or one of the PRS17 versions on this thread would be a superb watch, very useable and discreet another quartz chrono is definately the way forward!!!. How about a non-refelctive DLC or PVD version as well. Liking this, all we need now is more people on board so Eddie might just take it further.

Obviously, I'd be in for one in any configuration. I have been since the beginning.

[dowsing]

I would love to see one of these made.

This is my favourite.



Eddie

[Timelord]

I would love to see one of these made.

That's my favourite too.

[Timelord]

Any news on this?

[PickleB]

This is my favourite.



Eddie

With a countdown bezel...at least as an option?

[judge]

Closest I got was this, built with an invicta case and a bunch of parts from ebay

Hi,

Which model Invicta was the donor watch ? Looks good.

Can't seem to find the same model and would like to try a similar mission conversion.
Did the pushers work straight off with the 251.262 OK ?

Cheers
Pete

[Jack's Creation]

[LIST][*]

A mission timer would be a great idea im in for one definately, either Eddies preffered offering above or one of the PRS17 versions on this thread would be a superb watch, very useable and discreet another quartz chrono is definately the way forward!!!. How about a non-refelctive DLC or PVD version as well. Liking this, all we need now is more people on board so Eddie might just take it further.

I would be in on this as well- I have the 17c (which I love) and would happily wear a 'simpler' version.

[Jack's Creation]

I actually really like the 17C's case, there is something very robust and utilitarian about its dimensions and proportions. I would also keep the operating buttons where they are, I don't see the benefit of swapping sides and it starts to go down the road too much of a homage to the Sinn.
In fact i love everything about the watch, the hands are A1 in my book and are one of the things that first caught my eye with the 17C.
Nice build there jt, i would very much like to modify mine like yours, but would keep the date option and ideally keep the Precista name.
Come on Eddie, how about knocking up a few dials and having a 17C modifcation program running, I would gladly send mine back to you for modification. Now let's see some 17MT's out there in the wild.

Yeah, I like the hands on the 17c -terrific legibility. The mod dial proposal is definitely interesting.

[Jack's Creation]

As you asked so politely.................




:)

I would buy this in a heartbeat---perfect!!

[barryw]

The watch looks amazing, always liked the look of the 17's.The quartz are my favourite ;)

[bambam]

One of these would be very cool. Loving the PRS17C that I got recently.

[PickleB]

As you asked so politely.................




:)

I really like the look of that. But...

With a countdown bezel...at least as an option?

The OP misses his EZM1. I have just acquired an EZM2 and cannot afford or find an EMZ1, but this would give both of us a desirable alternative.

[lawman_nl]

Is this something that could actually happen? I think I would love to own it (with a countdown bezel, please!) - not just because it reminds me of the EZM1 I once had, but because it simply looks awesome.

[occamsrazor]

I'd also love to see these made, but given this thread is, err, seven years old... :-)

I'd prefer it slightly larger though, and with 22mm lugs. Also not yellow.

[Dentsmithy]

Well however unlikely I'll register an interest. With red instead of yellow;)

[Gunscrossed]

Must be time for a thread resurrection?

Playing around with the seeds sown by Dave...

[Sunnie]

Yes please!!!


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[Jeremy67]

But without those silly crosshairs.

[sweets]

Sorry, but a mission timer needs a bezel..........

[Sunnie]

Sorry, but a mission timer needs a bezel..........

Oh God! That last design with minimalist bezel would be...perfect.


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[Sunnie]

But without those silly crosshairs.

Agreed. The number of lemania type hands already creates enough radial busyness. No other dial decoration needed except the word ‘Smiths’ or ‘Precista’. Why do I see it more as ‘Precista’?

If only this watch became a reality. Kickstarter x Timefactors?


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[HappyJack]

Sorry, but a mission timer needs a bezel..........

Yeah - but Paolo's A-13A seems to manage quite well without it.

Though one with the 251.264 movement and a 0-12 GMT bezel would be awesome - a sort of GMT chrono, with the benefit of the quick-set hour hand. I've just come back from a trip with 4 countries and 6 time zones changes in 14 days. I took my Omega SMP 2264 for the lume (waking up in a strange bed at 4.30 am seems to be the norm for the first week away) and the quickset hour hand. I also took my Revue Thommen Airspeed with the Lemania 5100; frankly, I'd rather have had just the one watch which could do both.

[Sunnie]

I have the A-13-A. It's fabulous. But it would have been more fabulous still with a rotating bezel.

Additionally, I don't think a bezel needs to be particularly thick to work well. i have a Tutma FX, and the bezel on that is really thin but still really useful without eating into the sleek refined look of the watch.

I would love to see a version of the design pictured above become reality... this thread is exciting and frustrating!