didnt see the point about the 7750.
all for the good if it can be made quickly.
please ignore my quartz heresy above and put me down for no.37.
The Revue Thommen Airspeed with Lemania 5100 is one of the few modern watches with that movement to have escaped me. I have the Revue Thommen Quartz with the ETA 251.262 movement, although I prefer my Precista 17-C. I've been looking for the Tutima Pacific chronograph with the ETA 251.262 movement for a while now. However, like all Tutimas, they are really expensive new :( Just goes to show how good value the Precista 17-C is.Originally Posted by HappyJack
The Lemania and the 251.262 RT models look and feel very similar. The sub-dials are in different positions; the Lemania has day/date rather than date only, and a count-down rather than dive bezel, which I find more useful. In both cases, the centre sweep chrono minute makes them very legible and highly useful - much preferable to the Valjoux 7750 style chrono with the 30 minute sub-dial.
The auto is slightly thicker than the quartz, though it wears much the same:
Now having owned both - though I've sold the quartz version - I would certainly regard a watch with the quartz 251.262 to be a worthy successor to a Lemania 5100 powered auto. I just wish Fortis would make one...
I always liked this one.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Me too, irrespective of whether it contains a Lemania 5100 (impossible), Dubois Depraz 2073 (very unlikley), or ETA 251.262 movement.I always liked this one.
Eddie
Am i missing something? is this an actual model for sale? or is this some mock-up of an EZM1-like Precista watch?I always liked this one.
Eddie
The latter. IIRC, the original idea was to use a mechanical ETA 2892 with a Dubois Depraz central minute chronograph module piggy-backed on top as used in the Tag Heuer Aquagraph amongst very few others (Sinn 142 II and a Nivrel chronograph AFAIK). However, the cost estimates were too high according Eddie, thus we are left with the quartz ETA 251.262 with the constant seconds, hour timer and 1/20 sec registers removed. Nothing wrong with that, of course. :)Am i missing something? is this an actual model for sale? or is this some mock-up of an EZM1-like Precista watch?I always liked this one.
Eddie
OMG, I'd have that in a heartbeat! :shock:
Stuff the Vanguard, when can we have this?
A lefty! How about a countdown bezel, there's already a count-up hand in there..
Nice work, I like it more than the EZM-1 :salute:
I would have one of those without a second thought, very nice 8)
+1 Agreed.
I'd be sprely tempted by one of these! Bought a 17C from someone on here and really like it - got it on a hirsh liberty and it looks great. But the cleaner look of this would be a lovely complement. I like the idea of a 12 hour bezel so that you can use it as an hour timer in addition to the second and minute hands or for a second time zone. If it was based on the 17C then I guess you could choose either bezel though!
I can't believe this is still rolling on!
It's about two years since I did that first batch of mock-ups based around the concept that Guncrossed raised.
My own thoughts are that we shot the project down by expressing so much more preference for this later rendition using a larger 'Mars Watch' style case, and that took it right away from the original simple (and inexpensive) project of basically a redial and minor mod to the existing '17C and put it into the 'that'll be expensive to fund and make' pile.
If someone wants to sell me a 12hr bezel '17C with black date wheel (Eddie is out of stock at the moment) I'll do the dial and the mods to build one and then we'll finally see for real if it works.
Sounds like a plan Geoff :lol:
Which is a shame, as I really like the redial idea! I'd volunteer my 17C but I like it too much to lose!
I'm looking at this again and have a few questions. Bear in mind that if it's a lefty, the running seconds would have to be at 12 or none at all.I always liked this one.
Eddie
Diameter? (I thought 40mm)
Flat sapphire with single or double sided A/R?
Round or square pushers?
Unidirectional or bidirectional bezel? Elapsed time or countdown?
60 or 120 clicks?
Anti-magnetic cage?
Beadblasted or brushed?
Regular or destro?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Lets roll! 8)
(edit to add not fussed about running seconds)
Echo with Gunscrossed, just:
Square if it suits the rest of the case (if it would be rather like a Tutima/Sinn?)
Great, Eddie!
Frank
Would it be available with a bracelet option :?:
+1Lets roll! 8)
(edit to add not fussed about running seconds)
Better without running seconds for dial clarity. As for handedness, I'd prefer a destro (lefty?), but regular is OK.
Don't see the appeal of lefty crowns at all, and that would probably put me off. For what it's worth:Diameter? (I thought 40mm) - 40mm sounds lovely, not too big please
Flat sapphire with single or double sided A/R? Flat, a/r on the inside
Round or square pushers? whatever looks better, don't care really
Unidirectional or bidirectional bezel? Elapsed time or countdown? Bi-directional, but I think a 12 hour bezel would work better (unless there's an hour counter)
60 or 120 clicks? either
Anti-magnetic cage? nice to have if it's an auto - for quartz ? if necessary
Beadblasted or brushed? don't mind
Regular or destro? crown on right ideally, if that's what destro is about!
- I'd rather see an hour counter than running seconds, but I can see the appeal of no subdials at all
- I think a sterile dial would be good, or a smaller logo
- Quartz seems preferable to a modular auto to me
Realistically, it has to be the ETA 251.262 quartz movement. The ETA 2892 with Dubois Depraz 2073 chronograph module is too expensive. Maybe Eddie could use Sinn's upcoming SZ01 centre-minutes chronograph based on the Valjoux 7750? :wink:
That's up to Eddie of course. However, I know the perfect bracelet:Would it be available with a bracelet option :?:
Please ignore the polished inner links. It is also available in all blasted finish and currently sold by Guinand for 80 Euros, although I don't know where Guinand source them from:
http://guinand-watch.com/index.php?opti ... Itemid=121
If Eddie can't or doesn't want to source these bracelets from the original supplier that Helmut Sinn uses, the owner of a PRS Mission Timer can order one through Guinand if they wish. I think that this bracelet on the watch would give Sinn and Tutima a run for their money.
mmmm.....the only thing i think that i would add is for it to be slightly larger? i had 17c and loved eerything about it....it was perfect apart from the size.....so could i suggest 42mm without the crown?
tbh, im not bothered about the movement, wether its an ETA quartz or, dare i say it a miyota......beadblasted would be cool, or brushed.....and wouldn't be to fussed about a metal band either....had my 17c on a lumpy....
and if anyone can tell me that this aint one well horny cobination.....then i dont know what is.....they are made for each other....
so a lumpy would look pretty cool.....what would be cool would be one of these with the lumpy as an option, but with prs missiontimer on the clasp????
just my 2p's worth....
Given that this thread has established (early on if you care to have a read) that a mission timer means whatever you want it to mean I can't see any point when we have the inestimable 17C. Yes, that is relatively small but apart from that what mission lasts longer than the 12 hours the 17C times?
If people want a new Precista - and why not - then for me it would have to be quite different from any of the others.
Whilst the exact definition of a "Mission Timer" is not precisely specified, I do not see any need for it to be fully defined in order to make such a watch. This did not prevent Sinn and Tutima making the highly regarded and very popular Einsatzzeitmesser (EZM series) and Einsatzuhr (Commando II) watches. The relevant issue is not whether a mission lasts longer than 12 hours. Rather, the whole reason for a "Mission Timer" is to have a chronograph with optimised readability for elapsed time (in minutes) since the start of said mission. Sinn and Tutima did exactly this with the Lemania 5100 movement in their EZM-1 and Commando II Mission Timers. Now that this movement has been discontinued, it makes sense to use its functional replacement, the ETA 251.262 quartz in "Mission Timer" watches.
ETA's patent for the 251.262 is US6570823 B1 (published 27/05/2003, filing date 05/09/2000 & priority date 16/09/1999), which is fairly consistent with the beginning of the demise of the Lemania 5100. The ETA 251.262 has been used in a number of watches from the expensive Breitling and Tag Heuers through the cheaper Debaufres and Chase-Durers to the Precista PRS-17C, which I believe is the cheapest watch currently using the movement (although an ultra-cheap Victorinox V7 was dumped on the grey market and featured on QVC-type TV channels).
The Precista PRS-17C is a great little watch and I have one myself. However, I am disappointed in the lack of interest in the movement from the former customers of the Lemania 5100. Tutima made the Pacific Chronograph (ref. 759-02), which is still listed by Chronomaster, but I believe is discontinued. In my opinion, this movement should have been put in the larger Nato Chronograph case, rather than the same 38mm case used by the Pacific. Sinn have not made a watch with this movement to date AFAIK and neither have Orfina. Revue Thommen made an Airspeed Chronograph with this movement and currently have one very much like the Debaufre Aircraft 8 Chronograph. However, Fortis who were another Lemania 5100 customer, have not made a watch with the ETA 251.262.
In conclusion, given the demise of the Sinn EZM-1 and the inevitable demise of the Tutima Commando II (due to lack of availablity of the Lemania 5100), I think that there is a market for a Mission Timer using the ETA 251.262. At the very least, it would be nice to see something different done with this HEQ from ETA.
+1+1
Lets roll! 8)
(edit to add not fussed about running seconds)
Better without running seconds for dial clarity. As for handedness, I'd prefer a destro (lefty?), but regular is OK.
Just my two bezants' worth:
A few more observations from owning a -17C, if you do not mind:
- The lumed portions of the second and minute counter need to be longer to facilitate identification of the hands over the indices. Dayglow orange rather than yellow is the color of choice. In fact, seeing that there is no permanent center second hand, why not lume the entire chronograph second hand from stem to tip, and lume the top half (50%) of the minute totalizer?
- The subdials, if any are present, need to be maximized.
- The bezel needs to be better grippable than the one of the -17C
- To be honest, I don't really like the bezel in the picture ... somehow it looks like DN. I do like the full minute markers, though. Maybe a black bezel insert? Maybe more similar (as a countdown version) to the Heuer-style 60-minute insert of the -17C, which is excellent to read, IMHO.
- The lume pip in the bezel needs to be of the same color (C3 or better) as the lume on dial and hands.
Cheers,
Martin ("Crusader")
I would be happy with a constant seconds subdial at 6, but I think that it would look rather odd at 12. Thus, if such a feature was present, it would have to be right-handed chrono pushers as far as I'm concerned.Just my two bezants' worth:
A few more observations from owning a -17C, if you do not mind:
- The lumed portions of the second and minute counter need to be longer to facilitate identification of the hands over the indices. Dayglow orange rather than yellow is the color of choice. In fact, seeing that there is no permanent center second hand, why not lume the entire chronograph second hand from stem to tip, and lume the top half (50%) of the minute totalizer?
- The subdials, if any are present, need to be maximized.
- The bezel needs to be better grippable than the one of the -17C
- To be honest, I don't really like the bezel in the picture ... somehow it looks like DN. I do like the full minute markers, though. Maybe a black bezel insert? Maybe more similar (as a countdown version) to the Heuer-style 60-minute insert of the -17C, which is excellent to read, IMHO.
- The lume pip in the bezel needs to be of the same color (C3 or better) as the lume on dial and hands.
That is a good combination. :) I must try something other than a Nato on mine at some point. Then again, I'd like another PRS-17C, but this time with the time-elapsed bezel.mmmm.....the only thing i think that i would add is for it to be slightly larger? i had 17c and loved eerything about it....it was perfect apart from the size.....so could i suggest 42mm without the crown?
tbh, im not bothered about the movement, wether its an ETA quartz or, dare i say it a miyota......beadblasted would be cool, or brushed.....and wouldn't be to fussed about a metal band either....had my 17c on a lumpy....
and if anyone can tell me that this aint one well horny cobination.....then i dont know what is.....they are made for each other....
so a lumpy would look pretty cool.....what would be cool would be one of these with the lumpy as an option, but with prs missiontimer on the clasp????
just my 2p's worth....
There's a 27-jewel ETA 251 in my Longines chrono, bought 1999. Central seconds and minutes, 12-hour, 60-min and 1/10-sec totalisers. This must be one of the first watches to use this movement.
My two-penn'-orth:
Diameter? (I thought 40mm) 40
Flat sapphire with single or double sided A/R? Single side
Round or square pushers? Round
Unidirectional or bidirectional bezel? Elapsed time or countdown? Bi-directional, countdown
60 or 120 clicks? 120 is great, but otherwise unbothered
Anti-magnetic cage? yes - the quartz chrono is much thinner than most autos so shd leave room for an inner cage without overbulking the watch. Cost permitting, of course
Beadblasted or brushed? Brushed. Don't see the fascination with delicate, hard-to-look-after beadblasting
Regular or destro? ? Destro. I really do see the point of lefty crown and pushers - I'm left handed.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I suppose it must be one of the earliest. That is assuming that I'm right about the patent, of course. I did note that the central minutes feature is not essential to the invention. Although it is a preferred embodiment as shown in the figure on page 1, it is not the subject of the independent patent claims. It's possible that there is another patent somewhere primarily directed to this feature and that various patents by ETA overlap each other. This is especially common for US patent applications. I found US6570823 B1 using a very rough keyword search.There's a 27-jewel ETA 251 in my Longines chrono, bought 1999. Central seconds and minutes, 12-hour, 60-min and 1/10-sec totalisers. This must be one of the first watches to use this movement.
My two-penn'-orth:
Diameter? (I thought 40mm) 40
Flat sapphire with single or double sided A/R? Single side
Round or square pushers? Round
Unidirectional or bidirectional bezel? Elapsed time or countdown? Bi-directional, countdown
60 or 120 clicks? 120 is great, but otherwise unbothered
Anti-magnetic cage? yes - the quartz chrono is much thinner than most autos so shd leave room for an inner cage without overbulking the watch. Cost permitting, of course
Beadblasted or brushed? Brushed. Don't see the fascination with delicate, hard-to-look-after beadblasting
Regular or destro? ? Destro. I really do see the point of lefty crown and pushers - I'm left handed.
I bought a Revue Thommen Airspeed Classic Quartz chrono in 1999 - so again, it was probably one of the first. It was then about the same price, and pretty much size as the Lemania 5100 version, which looked virtually identical apart from having a day window and lacking the 1/10ths register. The Quartz version was of course much more accurate, so I went for that, though I've since amended my ways and now have the RT auto Lemania version instead.
The ETA 251.262 is an excellent movement, probably more rugged than the Lemania; certainly with better functionality (split timer, and ability to reset the minute hand to create a count-down stop watch - very useful for counting down to race / mission start) and I'd recommend it highly as the basis for the Mission Timer.
Thanks for that information. I've read your posts on various fora with regard to RT Airspeeds and the comparison of the Lemania with the 251.262 with great interest. Do you plan on getting the RT Airspeed 2 with the Valjoux 7750?
That's very good research! I dimly recall the marketing bumph making strident claims about the central sec/minute counters, more specifically that this watch could count 1/10ths, seconds, minutes and 12 hours and tell the time, using seven hands. I looked at a quartz TAG Aquaracer at the same time and that only had the one central sweep hand, although I turned it down for different reasons.
It's this one:
This is a library photo, although I do have one at home with the back off which I should post when I find it. The movement was, as I recall, very floridly decorated (something I now realise is both unnecessary and unusual for a quartz watch).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Thanks for that information Andrew. :) What model Longines is that, if you don't mind? I have a list of watches to use the ETA 251.262 (that I will post up tomorrow) and there are 3 Longines to use that movement AFAIK.That's very good research! I dimly recall the marketing bumph making strident claims about the central sec/minute counters, more specifically that this watch could count 1/10ths, seconds, minutes and 12 hours and tell the time, using seven hands. I looked at a quartz TAG Aquaracer at the same time and that only had the one central sweep hand, although I turned it down for different reasons.
It's this one:
This is a library photo, although I do have one at home with the back off which I should post when I find it. The movement was, as I recall, very floridly decorated (something I now realise is both unnecessary and unusual for a quartz watch).
No - For myself, I don't think I'd go for the RT Valjoux version. Whilst I like the count-down bezel, I already have the RT Lemania version with the CD bezel. I really prefer a centre-sweep minute hand chrono display to the 30 min sub-register of the 7750, and when I can find one I can afford, I think I'll probably trade my Fortis B-42 GMT chrono for a B-42 Fortis Lemania auto, much as I love the Fortis.Thanks for that information. I've read your posts on various fora with regard to RT Airspeeds and the comparison of the Lemania with the 251.262 with great interest. Do you plan on getting the RT Airspeed 2 with the Valjoux 7750?
I just missed one on eBay a couple of days ago, and the major factor in my being the underbidder was that I didn't really want to have to sell the RT Lemania, as well as the Fortis, to pay for it. The RT is a much more wearable size than any Fortis chrono - both makes have a superbly clear display, but the RT actually fits under a shirt sleeve.
I already have a Valjoux 7750 chrono - my Fortis Pilot Professional GMT Chrono has the 7754 movement - ie, the 7750 modified to provide a GMT hand, which is a feature more than the RT. I DO quite like the infamous "wobble" of the Valjoux movement, and the model I have has a glass back - so you can see the rotor. But, if you don't want or need a GMT version, and aren't worried about having a centre sweep minute hand, the RT Valjoux version is good value for money, very comfortable to wear, and I'd certainly recommend it.
Funnily enough, if I did get a Lemania 5100 Fortis B-42 (which is a massive watch and therefore at risk of getting bashed), I'd be tempted to get another RT Airspeed quartz chrono, as a beater/sports watch/timekeeper...Of course, if Eddie manages to build an ETA 251.262 powered mission timer, I might go for that instead - then I can keep the RT Lemania auto, and have a high-end quartz. And perhaps save myself the expense of buying a Sinn EZM-1!
That's the Longines Oposition (sic), L3.618.4. 1999-2003, when it was replaced by the more conventional, and equally oddly named, Lungomare. I liked it because it was one of the few sportier watches that didn't have a timing bezel, which at the time I thought wasn't necessary with a chrono. Later, Longines brought out an automatic version, but only in polished titanium...
Mind you, what do I know; according to some I don't even like watches ;)
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Thanks. That Longines and a few others have brought me to the following list that is probably not complete, but is the most complete list of brands/names to use the ETA 251.262 in their watches that I have seen:That's the Longines Oposition (sic), L3.618.4. 1999-2003, when it was replaced by the more conventional, and equally oddly named, Lungomare. I liked it because it was one of the few sportier watches that didn't have a timing bezel, which at the time I thought wasn't necessary with a chrono. Later, Longines brought out an automatic version, but only in polished titanium...
Mind you, what do I know; according to some I don't even like watches ;)
Bell & Ross Vintage 120 Chronograph
Breitling Chronograph Shark Quartz
Breitling J-Class Chronograph
Breitling Chronograph Sirius (Breitling 53)
Breitling Colt Ocean Chronograph
Breitling Colt Quartz Chronograph
Breitling Colt Transocean Chronograph
Certina DS First Chrono Sport 200M
Chase-Durer SF 1000/1000XL UDT
Chase-Durer Squadron Commander
Chase-Durer Falcon Command
Chase-Durer Trackmaster Pro Chronograph
Debaufre Aircraft Quartz 8 Chronograph
Longines Evidenza Chronograph
Longines Hydroconquest Chronograph Quartz
Longines Lungomare Chronograph
Longines Oposition Chronograph L3.618.4.
Memphis Belle Frecce Tricolori Titan Chrono FT
Porsche P6320 Watch Quartz Chronograph Flat Six
Precista 89 PRS-17-C
Revue Thommen Airspeed Classic Titanium Chronograph
Revue Thommen Airspeed Instrument Chronograph
Rosendahl 43301 MPH
TAG Heuer Aquaracer Chronograph
TAG Heuer Formula 1 Chronograph 1/10th
TAG Heuer Mens 2000 Stainless Steel Chronograph
TAG Heuer Kirium Ti5 Chronograph
Tutima Pacific Chronograph
Universal Geneve Ayrton Senna Chronograph
Victorinox Swiss Army Airboss Mach 3
Victorinox/Swiss Army V-7-22x ($39!!! when sold on TV)
The above list is not intended to include the thermocompensated ETA 251.232.
:love10: X-33 style case, DN ish bezel, EZM-1 dial, I would have one of these in a heartbeat but it has to have a bidirectional countdown bezel IMHO and as thin a case as possible. All the other stuff I am not that bothered about.I always liked this one.
Eddie
Nice Merlin pic as well :salute:
Forget to add, if it has to be lefty please can we have it such that the pushers and crown stick out as little as possible. It was by far the biggest thing about my old EZM3 to aggravate me, to the point when I decided I just didn't want to wear it any more.
:love10: X-33 style case, DN ish bezel, EZM-1 dial, I would have one of these in a heartbeat but it has to have a bidirectional countdown bezel IMHO and as thin a case as possible. All the other stuff I am not that bothered about.[quote]I always liked this one.
Eddie
One additional request - if we were not to have a permanent seconds hand - or even if we do - can we please have the minute hand with a really fine point, as per the EZM-1 and EZM-3 - so as to make it easy to judge at a glance how far between the minute markers we are. And stopwatch hands in white luminova, please, also as per the Sinn EZM-1.
The bezel should definitely be countdown, but it would be handy to make it a combined CD and 12 hr bezel - either for a second time zone, or as a 12 hour timer in place of a 12 hr sub-register.
And, I'd second the idea of a nice thin case - titanium too, for lightness and colour, if possible. But if it were as thin as say, the Seiko RN Pilot Chrono Series 2 (the 7T27 7A20), the weight wouldn't matter too much and so the material selection would be less of a concern.
I can't see the problem with having a 12h counter ala Tutima Commando myself. It would be a shame not to really as without it the watch is definitely loosing functionality. The fractions of a second counter is a waste of time anyway on a wristwatch, and its all most obligatory not to have running seconds, I think we could all live with that no problem. Personally I could take the 12h counter either way really but the mixed text on the bezel would IMHO clutter the design in a way that would spoil this watch, so having hours on the bezel is a big no no for me.
Just got MKii LRRP which makes a pretty good case for ultimate beater too - Hommage to Explorer 11 definitley worthwhile. 24H complication is useful in my job too where a lot of the actual workers are overseas.
Unfortunately, I missed out on an example of the RT with the Valjoux movement this week:No - For myself, I don't think I'd go for the RT Valjoux version. Whilst I like the count-down bezel, I already have the RT Lemania version with the CD bezel. I really prefer a centre-sweep minute hand chrono display to the 30 min sub-register of the 7750, and when I can find one I can afford, I think I'll probably trade my Fortis B-42 GMT chrono for a B-42 Fortis Lemania auto, much as I love the Fortis.Thanks for that information. I've read your posts on various fora with regard to RT Airspeeds and the comparison of the Lemania with the 251.262 with great interest. Do you plan on getting the RT Airspeed 2 with the Valjoux 7750?
I just missed one on eBay a couple of days ago, and the major factor in my being the underbidder was that I didn't really want to have to sell the RT Lemania, as well as the Fortis, to pay for it. The RT is a much more wearable size than any Fortis chrono - both makes have a superbly clear display, but the RT actually fits under a shirt sleeve.
I already have a Valjoux 7750 chrono - my Fortis Pilot Professional GMT Chrono has the 7754 movement - ie, the 7750 modified to provide a GMT hand, which is a feature more than the RT. I DO quite like the infamous "wobble" of the Valjoux movement, and the model I have has a glass back - so you can see the rotor. But, if you don't want or need a GMT version, and aren't worried about having a centre sweep minute hand, the RT Valjoux version is good value for money, very comfortable to wear, and I'd certainly recommend it.
Funnily enough, if I did get a Lemania 5100 Fortis B-42 (which is a massive watch and therefore at risk of getting bashed), I'd be tempted to get another RT Airspeed quartz chrono, as a beater/sports watch/timekeeper...Of course, if Eddie manages to build an ETA 251.262 powered mission timer, I might go for that instead - then I can keep the RT Lemania auto, and have a high-end quartz. And perhaps save myself the expense of buying a Sinn EZM-1!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Revue-Thommen-Air ... 286.c0.m14
Like the ETA quartz and the Lemania versions, this one is titanium, but has the minute subdial yellow-highlighted, rather than central minutes. It was my first day back in work after nearly 2 weeks off and I was too busy to catch the end of the auction. It went for a very good price (£339) too. :(
Do you by any chance know if the Valijoux 7750 version is larger than the Lemania? it's listed as 39.5mm. Wasn't the Lemania 38.5mm?
Thanks.
I don't know for sure, but it is very likely that they are the same size at 38.5mm. My quartz version is 38.5mm anyway.Do you by any chance know if the Valijoux 7750 version is larger than the Lemania? it's listed as 39.5mm. Wasn't the Lemania 38.5mm?
Thanks.
I've just taken delivery of one of these
and while there are a lot of things I like about it, I think it could be improved. Taking out the subdial at 8 (which is 1/10th seconds) would clean the dial up while still leaving it interestingly asymmetric, and doing away with the inner bezel and huge crown at 3 (which turns the bezel) would simplify the look. A standard bi-directional bezel would work just as well.
This layout, which you get from turning the 251.262 through 180 degrees, has converted me to the idea of a left hand crown. for the mission timer. It doesn't need 1/10th seconds or running seconds, but a 12 hour counter is a useful feature imo.
My main beef with the Victorinox is that it's too big. I'd love to see the upside-down movement in a smaller cased Timefactors watch.
Having a single 12 hour subdial off-centre at 4 would also make it unlike any other watch I've seen, which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. It would make it less Sinn-like though.
I quite like that.I've just taken delivery of one of these
and while there are a lot of things I like about it, I think it could be improved. Taking out the subdial at 8 (which is 1/10th seconds) would clean the dial up while still leaving it interestingly asymmetric, and doing away with the inner bezel and huge crown at 3 (which turns the bezel) would simplify the look. A standard bi-directional bezel would work just as well.
This layout, which you get from turning the 251.262 through 180 degrees, has converted me to the idea of a left hand crown. for the mission timer. It doesn't need 1/10th seconds or running seconds, but a 12 hour counter is a useful feature imo.
My main beef with the Victorinox is that it's too big. I'd love to see the upside-down movement in a smaller cased Timefactors watch.
Having a single 12 hour subdial off-centre at 4 would also make it unlike any other watch I've seen, which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. It would make it less Sinn-like though.
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