Following on from some of the threads about modifying or downsizing a collection in favour of one higher-end piece, such as Rolex, I wondered how much of a deterrent the potential al servicing costs have been to owners? I've not been a WIS long enough to have had to send in a watch for servicing until this week (PRS-6), and the costs of servicing something I would consider, such a a Speedy, Explorer or Vintage Rolex are pretty steep, including at the independents. Is it just a necessary price for ownership?
Ownership of most things come with associated costs, be it watches, cars or houses, to name but a few. It's also true, the further up the ladder you go, those costs escalate.
Hopefully though, if you invest in a quality product and look after it, on top of enjoying it, you could see capital growth, making it all worthwhile in the end.
If service costs are source of concern then a high end mechanical might not be for you much the same as you wouldn't buy a Ferrari and skimp on the servicing. Having said that I bought a 10 yr old Rolex Explorer 2 from SC and when it was opened up it had not been serviced from new but it was running within a respectable time. I only got it serviced because there were no papers and I was selling it.
The cost of servicing will probably be similar to that of half a dozen 'lesser' watches.
The answer is simple.Originally Posted by OldHooky
Yes, it is.
As has been said, you do need to consider the cost of ownership, just as you should with anything you want to own (including fast cars and fast women).
However, it need not be costly - this has just had its 10th birthday, never serviced, passed a pressure test last year, 8 seconds fast after 8 days on the wrist (except when in bed).
Of course it could give up the ghost tomorrow, in which case it will cost the best part of £300 to service, but after 10 years I reckon it's worth it
I don't worry about the servicing costs, I mean we spend the same on cars, each year. I simply enjoy them my JLC cost just over £670 and I have only worn it less then 4 times since serviced.
Never having had a watch serviced, how much does it usually cost?
Say for a basic ETA2824-2 versus Rolex prices?
It's definitely something which has put me off buying used "luxury" brands before.
I see not only the cost of a service, but the full strip down and refinish, it's actually value for money.
Servicing factors does play on my mind with regards to size of my collection. Mainly due to my location more then cost though!!!
Never really been a consideration as I only have two watches, although I guess it is all relative.
This is the reason for me getting rid of my accutrons and old chronographs , servicing and part costs end up exceeding what the thing is worth.
Let's not forget that there are several well respected watchmakers (most used regularly by forum members) that can service the high end watches and undercut the manufacturer by a significant percent. If you can do without the whole overhaul i.e. case refurb etc, and stick to the basic service then there is some argument for taking the plunge on a high end wristwatch.
I have no experience in maintaining a high end piece but wouldn't be put off by servicing costs as there are options outside of a complete overhaul which can then be saved for when the watch really needs it.
I agree it can become a problem when servicing costs begin to eat into the overall value of the watch itself. At least with high end to can hedge the price of servicing against the maintenance of its value and in some cases overhauling can have a positive effect on value.
For me it's a clear deterrent. Not to owning a mechanical watch, but certainly to owning too many of them. It has successfully put me off a Royal Oak, a watch I woud otherwise like to have - but given the already high price of the watch, factoring in another £10k of top dollar manufacturer servicing over the next few decades means I couldn't even begin to justify it.
It's a big part of the reason why half of my collection is quartz. When I last decided to treat myself, a GS quartz came out ahead partly because I may never need to service it at all, making it a more guilt free purchase.
Future servicing costs was definitely a factor in my selling my Breitling Chronomat and sticking with non-complication pieces...and also keeping my collection down to just a few quality watches.
Even then, I have been quoted £550 for a full service of my Jaeger Master Ultra Thin, and I think the Milgauss is around £400 at current service prices.
With a Breitling and a full overhaul, the Colt GMT came back looking like new (now sold), so it's worth factoring in whether an overhaul is also an option.
Different brands will also quote specific service intervals so it's worth checking that out too.
Taking the JLC MUT above as an example, £550 every five years equates to £9.17 per month, and if the watch isn't an everyday wearer, you probably don't even need to have it serviced that often.
Ultimately, you're paying for the pleasure of owning and wearing a quality timepiece, and only you can decide if that's reason enough for the expense.
I believe there is a rough cap as to how much a service of a "normal" mechanical watch can cost [by normal I mean a day/date type complications and not something more complicated]. So more or less the labour involved in servicing the movement of an ETA powered watch or say a Rolex can be quite similar. In fact my JLC cost about as much as a Rolex to service (despite the JLC costing about twice as much) and an estimate I had on an ETA 2824 powered watch being only a bit cheaper.
In a way, much like cars, the purchase price of the watch does not always mean a higher service price (although there is a small correlation). Ultimately though, you will need to service the watches if they get used or not. The question is what is a reasonable service interval? I can't answer that. I was told 5 years by a highly reputable source, because at some point the oils break down.. On the other hand you hear of 10, even 20 year old watches remaining completely unserviced. You also need to consider the gaskets that are prone to drying up with time.
The other question is whether it is worth servicing a £200-£500 watch for say a £100-200 service cost?
Probably not, and in fact, I plan on taking a whack at one of my ETA watches myself.. best scenario, it could be fun and costs the price of tools and is a great learning experience, medium case scenario I would need to buy up to a £150 movement to replace the whole movement, worst case scenario: watch is a collection of broken parts.. but the replacement is still a brand new watch for the same price as the service cost..
I forgot to add that many times watches may have sat at dealers for years before you buy them.. It seems the attitude is service time is X years after purchase, which is funny, because it should be service time is X years after assembly..
Last edited by GTuned; 2nd November 2013 at 17:10.
I was shocked by Omega servicing, today I was in a couple of local ADs, looking for a new watch and the sales assistant commented that the servicing of a speedy pro is £500, when I told her it was a older 321 cal she said its subject to quotation...
£500 for a modern speedy seems expensive when they quoted me £430 on the datejust I was looking at...
I reckon they charge what they think they can get away with to a certain degree..
This is just one one of the factors that puts me off having and wearing too many mechanicals.
Can't really accept the numbers. If you had twenty reasonable mechanicals you would be wearing each just 10-20 times a year.
At £500 a pop servicing every five years they would be costing me £5 to £10 for every time I wore them and that is just servicing, if they needed any repairs then that cost increases and that is before any depreciation.
Those sort of numbers would niggle me too much to truly enjoy ownership I am afraid.
The alternative, employed by a number on here, is to constantly flip the watches before servicing but then do you ever truly have the pleasure of ownership, knowing they are just passing through? I don't suppose a jeweller gets very attached to the watches he retails. Also, there is then the issue of not wanting to wear them to often, in case the wear affects the depreciation, again increasing the cost.
Mitch
you think £70 more to service a chronograph is expensive? yeah I agree £500 is expensive but I wouldn't hold up a £430 datejust service as value for money.
£500 for a Speedy Pro isn't the price everywhere, it's £200 at somewhere like Genesis.
£600 for a vintage Sub has put me off ever buying another. I'll pay that for my 9300 Omegas though as they're a much more complicated movement.
If anything, expensive servicing makes owning a more expensive watch more viable for longer term ownership. For a cheap one, such as a low end Seiko, I'd be more likely to bin it and buy another...
£500 would be to return the watch to Omega for servicing.
The Omega web site is good in that it clearly states servicing costs
http://www.omegawatches.com/customer...service-prices
I think it does need considering... It certainly hasn't put me off buying a few higher end pieces as others say is a cost of enjoyment and modern movements are have innovations to reduce these costs.
Where it does concern me (especially having paid about 600 to get my Flyback overhauled by Zenith) is when people post "What is the best watch I can buy for 2k" and the inevitable used chrono gets suggested without any suggestion of service cost. I think it is something one needs to be aware of but certainly wouldn't put me off buying something I wanted.
To put these prices into perspective, could someone suggest how long would it take to strip down and rebuild a watch (Speedy for example). Most of the costs are obviously labour.
afaik, the Rolex servicing includes polishing the case and bracelet, as does Jaeger leCoultre's service, and Breitling's overhaul. I'm not sure which other brands also include this polishing. The downside of this in some cases is that you pay the same price for a service even if you request no polishing.
Costs don't put me off ownership choices, but the availability of parts and specific tools in the future does.
For example, if I buy a sub or SMP they'll always be able to be serviced. It might cost a lot, but they will be fine. The flip side is something like the lovely constellation mecha-quartz that has been on SC recently - will movements and parts be available in 15 years time?
the quote i got from duncan for servicing a chrono was a lot more than £200 (it was £345) -this was before he had looked at it , im not doubting duncans work but when i questioned the cost ducan's reply was 'most customers use us on the quality of work and not on price' , the problem is if i expect the same (my watch serviced) whatever the cost is -whether £100 or £300 , so in my book thats a poor answer.
as i said i know duncans work is top notch - but he seems to have priced himself out of my range compared to others ive used that charge less and do the same job.
Wow - according to Omega's price list, to service my 1952 Seamaster with the Cal. 354 'bumper' movement would be about 700 quid. I didn't pay that much to acquire the watch and put it through a full restoration!
I've got to agree. It seems some independents can only offer a quicker alternative, not a cheaper one and I'd certainly expect the cost to be no more than half that of the manufacturer, to compensate the lack of history.
Those who think the general public, or in fact dealers on say a part exchange, recognise independent servicing as positive history, you're wrong. Come to sell in the real world and you'd wish you had sent it to a service centre...
Tough one I guess. I had two watches done with Duncan - my Speedmaster Pro and a low value but very precious & irreplaceable to me pocket watch. I thought the sheer level of service I received on both occasions (including quick responses to all of my emails, high calibre of work, all deadlines met as promised, etc) justified the sorts of money he charges and honestly thought his prices were fair - I spent about £350 on getting both items serviced, with the Speedmaster obviously commanding the majority of that amount.
I'd happily use him again.
With polishing of the case its a 4-8 hour job, but it all depends on the condition of the movement, hidden faults that have to be found etc... the 861 can be a bit temperamental when it wants to, then theres at least 4 days of testing power reserve/timekeeping.
Anyone servicing a chronograph for £200 cant include any parts or polishing I'm sure in that price.
as i said quick responses, deadlines, good work etc are what i expect whatever price i pay /purchase or use services from , unfortunatly his first quote to me has put me off using him for any of my other watches either as he seems to think that you can charge a premium for something which usually comes as standard.
Last edited by pugster; 3rd November 2013 at 10:45.
I think an awful lot will depend on the value of the piece and the cost/frequency of the servicing.
Using my TAG Heuer Super Progessional 1000M as an example, that cost £1000 give or take 22 years ago (about £2,000 now, corrected for inflation). TAG's service cost is currently about £350, with the recommendation that it be done every 2 years. On that basis it should have just had its 10th service at a total cost of £3500. As it is, it's been used pretty much daily, had 2 services at TAG and one at Genesis, at a total coat of about £850, and the watch is running like new.
If I were to sell now, I reckon I would get somewhere around £600-£800 for the watch. I'm not convinced that if TAG had serviced it I'd get £3500+
I agree, although my main points were/are:
Full service history is unimportant, ie. every 2 years. Just the last service by the manufacturer before sale will increase its sale value.
Independent service agents are charging closer to manufacturers pricing.
Servicing only when required is more realistic than every x many years, unless it affects warranty.
Thanks for all the comments. I think on balance that I will go for something higher end, and one that's been recently serviced!
So it looks like the next thing to mull over, and I probably won't start the usually inevitable thread of "what watch", is to decide which "everyday" watch to go for and sell or trade the 2254 and 856 UTC to buy it.
As long as the manufacturer costs are reasonable and the turnaround time realistically short. I'm pretty certain that sending my TAG off for 3 months isn't going to improve the sales value more than the £350 it'll cost me.
Independent prices are quite high, but manufacturer costs have risen steeply too, and I've got to say that the whole customer experience I had using Genesis was significatly more pleasurable than when the watch has gone to TAG. Rather than take the watch to the jeweller, have it sent off, get it back months later with a bill and a "warranty card", with Genesis I got updates on progress and on return of the watch I got a thorough set of photos of the internals of the watch and the calibration certificates showing before and after.
Sorry, I wasn't quite right with my price. I have a Speedy Pro waiting for service with Genesis at the moment and it's going to be £260 for a service, crystal and crown but no case polishing.
I don't think servicing costs are that high. Given that a watch needs a service every 5 years it's about £2 a week on average.
Servicing costs have put me off a couple of watches, both Vintage quartz, it's why I sold my oysterquartz, and why I've never bought a Omega Marine Chronometer, much as I love them both
I do wonder if it was more about the ongoing availability of parts rather than cost though, either way, servicing was the deterrent for me.
+1 to that.
Any chronograph requires at least 3-4 hours of work on the movement alone in my experience. Add in polishing of the case and that's easily nearly a full day gone. I think people assume that when watches come in for a service, they just require cleaning and lubricating. More often than not there are faults to be found and rectified. This takes time.
A good accredited independent has to buy all the equipment and tooling the brands demand which doesn't come cheap. The job still takes the same amount of time if not longer as most brands split the job up, the case/bracelet goes to a polisher and the rest to a watchmaker. Parts will come in at a higher cost than what the manufacturers obviously pay for them too. So you can see why they don't undercut the brands prices by a huge amount in most cases.
Last edited by RaulGonzalez; 3rd November 2013 at 14:53.
A lot of folks haven`t got a clue about servicing watches; I realised how little I knew after I`d started to get involved.
I agree with the previous comments; servicing a chrono does take time, even for someone familiar with the movement. Basically, there's a lot of bits......simple as that! More work involved = more time=higher charge.
Cheap watches are a problem; it takes just as long to service a cheap £60 vintage watch as a 6 year old Omega and the likelihood of finding problems is far higher. I`m sure people don`t always take account of this when buying cheaply.
I think the cost of service/maintenance is definitely a factor to consider when building a collection, particularly the higher send stuff that few people will work on. Not such a problem if you only have 1 or 2 watches, but it becomes an issue with several in a collection.
Watches are designed to run correctly with minimal wear when properly lubricated......and that means stripping down and servicing every few years.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 3rd November 2013 at 15:05.
Yes, and one I'm not prepared to pay anymore, except for one two watches, the rest will be cheap(ish) and cheerfull.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
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