Finally got to try a Black Bay and Pelagos, my impressions...

[adzman808]

Just got back from our Portugal holiday and whilst there mrs. adzman graciously allowed me into some watch shops

I knew exactly what I wanted to see, the Black Bay and Palegos

Now I realise that they're a bit old hat now, easily orderable via Iconic/Chrono24 etc & most of you who wanted one or the other have had one (& even now flipped them)

I came very close to getting a BB, but opted instead for a 114060, so the BB was the one I was particularly anxious to see, but that said there's been so many positive reviews of the Palegos that I really wanted to see one of those as well

Obviously, going into a couple of jewellers and trying on watches isn't the same as owning them as daily wearers, but it's a damn sight better than looking at internet pictures too!

I'll start with the pelagos,

The pelagos had always left me a little cold in pictures.... a kind of purity of function and form that left little room for character or warmth. In pix the big P had always struck me as slab sided & block like.

In the metal I was surprised at just how small it looked, perhaps something to do with the weight (more of which later) or the matt tones of the dial/hands/bezel/case but the Pelagos really carries its size very well.

The clasp isn't really as clever as I'd imagined - the micro adjust works like a sub (and nothing like a DSSD) but only has 3 settings and the automatically expanding part just means that one end of the bracelet is controlled by a spring, this isn't a criticism of what is a very functional design, but nevertheless some reviewers have implied that the pelagos clasp redefines what we should expect of a bracelet and in my humblest opinion I would suggest that this is mere hyperbole

The 60click bezel is very precise, very positive & a joy to use

The hands and markers are not something that has found favour to my tastes, yet in the flesh they work exceptionally well with the style and design of the piece and are remarkably legible

Another thing aiding the legibility is the frankly phenomenal AR, no sheen, no hint of coated glass tones, just a wonderfully transparent crystal

WTF this isn't used on the big sister's watches is a mystery to me

Obviously the watch is Ti and many (perhaps too many) have made the statement that it's no light weight, well this is true & it certainly has a denser feel than some £40 Sekonda titanium watch from argos, but it feels a world away from SS, this is neither good or bad (unless you're drawn to the properties of one or other metal), but it feels noticeably different from SS

In summary, the Palegos feels special - it is special, it's very well made, very focused & truly no nonsense, the quality of the package is up there with my sub even down to the crown action, but as I thought I might, I did find it somewhat soulless & cold - if you're the type of purchaser that can justify the price on a true tool watch or beater, then look no further

The Black Bay

I have been desperate to see this watch since I heard about it, I was slightly scared to see it in case I regretted buying the 114060, I was worried to see it in case I whipped out the plastic & did buy it.....

....Well....

it was okay... I would still buy one, but I'm not unhappy I went with the sub.

Firstly like most of you I looked at the first pix of the BB, saw the coloured crown tube and thought 'WTF' and in the flesh this strangely didn't bother me at all.

The red of the bezel is SO much different than in pictures, it's hard (for me) to describe, burgundy in colour, but tonally not a bright colour (I wonder what colour the bezel would look in B&W pictures?) it works very, very nicely against the pseudo vintage dial

And that of course brings me to my (& possibly every ones) favourite BB feature: the gilt dial & rose gold hands and markers & I do have to say they really sang to me, pseudo it may be, but the dial to me is so warm & well proportioned, it works perfectly with the snowflake hands & the coloured luminous material doesn't (to my eye at least) look at all contrived like the Kemmner 007 I once had.

The bezel turned with similar 60 click precision to the pelagos, which is a good thing, but the bezel did seem to have a tangible amount of lateral play - I do wonder if these new Tudor bezels are pressed on like pre-ceramic subs or utilise the must-replace-every-time nylon gasket thing of the modern rolex divers [anyone????]

The bracelet was really just a bracelet, fitting of the price bracket, noting special or remarkable, only 3 micro adjust holes, no divers extension

But the tudor was not without disappointments, the doomed crystal might be better described as infinitesimally doomed - don't get me wrong, I was not expecting something like a transparent Pantheon (!) but still I was somewhat disappointed, the crystal is more of a plateau, it has a lovely curvature to its leading edge (which produces lovely distortion of the dial) but then quickly levels out

I was also worried that the BB was too slab sided and in a way it is.... the side profile of the sub has 3 distinct surfaces, namely the bubble back, the case side and the bezel edge, by comparison the BB is flat bottomed, has a tiny bezel edge & is all case side, this to my eye isn't as visually interesting, but to be fair it sure makes it wear nicely on the wrist!

Much like the modern subs the BB wears larger than its size (although not due to fat lugs) as it's all dial, with a thin bezel - it wears well and ultimately I think any reservations I have about the shape are merely because it's really quite different from my no date that I wear most days

The worst thing (to me) about the BB is the fit on the leather - the inner lugs are not that well finished and very much on display, the gap between the springbar and the case is too large - it's hard to believe it came from the factory like that.... (in fact my old tudor hydronaut had pin holes for the bracelet springbars and separate non-pin holes nearer the case in you wanted to use a strap....

the strap itself is very nice - well-made etc, but slightly to contrived for me, after all - it's a new watch ;-)

The biggest shock of the BB to me was the crown action - the crown tube has an internal thread and the thread you see is on the crown. Once unscrewed the crown is a bit wobbly, not cheap microbrand wobbly, but wobbly nevertheless, I tried 3 separate BB examples are they were all the same.... I wouldn't say this was a deal breaker, but it feels flimsy when compared to a tripple lock of earlier tudors, the palegos & of course rolex

Price....? well I love to haggle as much as I hate to waste people's time, so I didn't try too hard as I wasn't buying, but in round figure terms the BB on a bracelet came up at about £2100 & the Pelagos at about £2600 - which is an approx. 12% off their euro sticker prices & converted to sterling by my dodgy mental arithmetic !!!!

I only had to ask what's your best price, to be offered 12%, so I think there might have been more wiggle room in there

Sorry for the long post, but hope you found it informative

edit: FYI I made the choice to go with the sub 114060 back in dec2012, rather than take a BB sight unseen, I didn't make that clear above & some of you below understandably think I only just got my sub, which is bad writing on my part & I apologise

[xanx]

have to say a great read. Yes yes theyre far from new but i still loving reading watch chat and reviews! shame theres no pictures but that cant be helped!

I find myself personally more and more drawn to the pelagos, and whilst i love the look of the black bay in all the photos ive seen it wears huge!

As with yourself im a sucker for that gilted dial! Out of interest i presume the blackbay still looks like a high end piece? im always a bit cautious that coloured watches may look like cheap pieces to the layman.....

[EJL25]

Wonderful read and great info.
I had the Pelagos and now I'm regretting selling it. Absolutely loved the sound of the bezel turning! :)
Actually trying to find another one and that will be a keeper!

[learningtofly]

I have to say there was more valuable info in this post (well, that post) than anything I've read previously on either model. Top man!

[o u t a t i m e]

Great post and interesting insights. Thanks for that!

I checked out both watches shortly after they were launched and opted for neither. They just did nothing for me. The BB is slightly more interesting than the Pelagos in my view, but still something I'd probably get tired of very quickly. Tudor, to me, remains a vintage brand. Their old stuff still takes the crown.

[ZIM]

Excellent post and very useful to someone, like me, who has yet to see either in the flesh.

Thanks for posting Adam.

[adzman808]

have to say a great read. Yes yes theyre far from new but i still loving reading watch chat and reviews! shame theres no pictures but that cant be helped!

I find myself personally more and more drawn to the pelagos, and whilst i love the look of the black bay in all the photos ive seen it wears huge!

As with yourself im a sucker for that gilted dial! Out of interest i presume the blackbay still looks like a high end piece? im always a bit cautious that coloured watches may look like cheap pieces to the layman.....

thanks very much

yes I thought about pictures, but it was hard enough with the language barrier and being a gringo tourist in shorts and a tee without complicating things getting a camera out

the BB does wear large, it's lug to lug is 50mm (or so I'm told), the subC is 47 or 48 (measured by me)

the P is the no contest, hands down better watch, the BB is the looker though,

hard to answer the high end question.... yes.... I'd say so definitely

BUT with the caveat that the sub style has been homaged at just about every price point & ultimately it 'only' costs tag aquaracer money (which its far nicer than)

the bezel colour really is a bugger to explain, sure it's red but tonally it's not bright, so it doesn't look gawdy (to my eye, ymmv) - it certainly isn't orange PO bright, but imho I'd be wanting to see a BB before parting with any cash (or certainly buying from an outlet with an easy return process)

[toezapper]

Thanks for that OP, very much enjoyed reading your insights, and I have to say just adds to the appeal of the BB to me. Some of the aesthetics that you mention are definitely the sort of thing that floats my boat. Will have to get my name down for one some time .... when funds are back up. Cheers you're a great help with that

[AIDM]

Great post Adam - good to hear your thoughts!

Rob

[Olives]

Great objective review- thanks you!
I did see a Pelagos in a shop window and it did not really stir me. I was reading with trepidation about the BB tho. I was worried you were going to say it was amazing and you we're smitten. Thank god you weren't!

For now the clasp on the ploprof 1200 is something I enjoy wearing and is safe .....for the time being...!


Enjoy your purchase

[ryanb741]

Interesting thread. Everyone has their own opinion of course. In my experience my Black Bay was the nicest watch I've ever owned, and I have owned everything from Patek's, Breguets, Rollies and all between. I think it's just the way the gilt hands and indices looked. In my opinion (and that's just my opinion of course) it surpasses any of the current subs.

Pelagos was nice in the metal but felt a little sterile.

[Elanman]

Very interesting write up - many thanks

[Nealywheelie]

I too, looked at both these watches in early July whilst on holiday in Kefalonia. The Pelagos & BB were both in the window of the premier jeweller in Argistoli. I think your write up is absolutely spot on, in other words, ''my thoughts exactly'', but for me, I could never have written such a great report. Thanks for posting.
P.S. The lady I was dealing with was very patient & a very lovely person, (the daughter of the owner, I think). It would be nice to have such a pleasant ''browsing'' experience in every watch shop such as this that I visitied.
Oh, & enjoy your new watch BTW.

[adzman808]

thanks for reading and replying

In my experience my Black Bay was the nicest watch I've ever owned, .

past tense? ;-)

it's certainly a beautiful & characterful watch, with far more charm than the modern subs, even incl. the 14060, but a physically superior watch to the modern ceramic subs it's not, the crown and bracelet see to that... that is of course my opinion though and ymmv (& clearly does)

Pelagos was nice in the metal but felt a little sterile.

my thoughts exactly, very, very nice watch, possibly bordering on feature perfection (for a dive watch), but as you said, the overall effect is just too sterile

[makes me wonder if we need foibles to truly love a watch?]

[toezapper]

I will have to keep my eye on the Chrono 24 site I noteice examples in the £1500 ballpark.... which is nice

[adzman808]

I too, looked at both these watches in early July whilst on holiday in Kefalonia. The Pelagos & BB were both in the window of the premier jeweller in Argistoli. I think your write up is absolutely spot on, in other words, ''my thoughts exactly'', but for me, I could never have written such a great report. Thanks for posting.
P.S. The lady I was dealing with was very patient & a very lovely person, (the daughter of the owner, I think). It would be nice to have such a pleasant ''browsing'' experience in every watch shop such as this that I visitied.
Oh, & enjoy your new watch BTW.

Thanks very much.

The second rolex boutique I visited in Porto was a wonderful experience, the guy didn't have the tudors on display, but got them from his safe, let me fiddle with them to my heart's content, then we had a big chat about watches, a genuine guy loving the products he was selling

UK retailers could learn a thing or too

incidentally, I've had the sub for a while, I got it in dec2012, I nearly got a BB then, but I'd never seen one & at the time the watch box was full of 2824 powered sub-a-likes and I knew it was the right time to get my first rolex

[adzman808]

I will have to keep my eye on the Chrono 24 site I noteice examples in the £1500 ballpark.... which is nice

they've come down then :)

seriously DON'T get the leather strap BB, any aftermarket 22mm strap will fit just as well (and by that I mean poorly) & iirc the bracelet is £500 from Rolex....

[AndyMilts]

Met a man from Tudor on Tuesday at an event, where the black bay won a prize. It's a very nice watch and there were a couple of other very cool Tudors on their table. But the most interesting thing he said was that they will have an outlet in the UK very soon and this will increase to about 10 by the end of next year. So hopefully Tudors will become widely available in the UK

[adzman808]

Met a man from Tudor on Tuesday at an event, where the black bay won a prize. It's a very nice watch and there were a couple of other very cool Tudors on their table. But the most interesting thing he said was that they will have an outlet in the UK very soon and this will increase to about 10 by the end of next year. So hopefully Tudors will become widely available in the UK

That's great news, the chap in Portugal was shocked when I told him that we couldn't get Tudors in the UK.

I guess the success of the reintroduction of Tudor into the US suggests to them it's a good move to re-launch it here

[BryanEbru1512]

I have to say there was more valuable info in this post (well, that post) than anything I've read previously on either model. Top man!

This .

Thanks for that .

[sweets]

Nice write-up, and it is good to read solid, reasoned opinion.

Personally, I fall the other side of the fence and prefer (and also own) the Pelagos.
I love it's sterility, and purity of design.
It does have flair in the design, with the large and even chamfer to the lugs, and the echo the the Tudor shield on the taper of the crown guards. But it dresses them down by brushing the lot, which I agree is not everyone's taste.

By comparison, for me, the Black Bay is too much of a pastiche of "heritage" elements.

"Lets have snowflake hands, a gilt (effect) dial, red accents and put them in a sub-like case without crown guards."

A mash-up really. If you ignore the heritage, the Black Bay does hang together as a coherent design, but it makes me wince a little to see these elements all squashed in together.

But that's just my opinion.

D

[S.L]

Nice write-up, and it is good to read solid, reasoned opinion.

Personally, I fall the other side of the fence and prefer (and also own) the Pelagos.
I love it's sterility, and purity of design.
It does have flair in the design, with the large and even chamfer to the lugs, and the echo the the Tudor shield on the taper of the crown guards. But it dresses them down by brushing the lot, which I agree is not everyone's taste.

By comparison, for me, the Black Bay is too much of a pastiche of "heritage" elements.

"Lets have snowflake hands, a gilt (effect) dial, red accents and put them in a sub-like case without crown guards."

A mash-up really. If you ignore the heritage, the Black Bay does hang together as a coherent design, but it makes me wince a little to see these elements all squashed in together.

But that's just my opinion.

D

Spot on.

[Glen Goyne]

Nice write up. It all comes down to personal taste in the end but you describe the features well.

I am a Pelagos owner. I nicknamed it "anti-bling" as that is what defines it to me the best. It is my least jewellery like watch an my most dive-watch watch. Yesterday I wore my old Tudor 79090 and it is so much more a piece of jewellery with all the shiny bits. I love both for what they are.

[andy tims]

Nice write-up, and it is good to read solid, reasoned opinion.

Personally, I fall the other side of the fence and prefer (and also own) the Pelagos.
I love it's sterility, and purity of design.
It does have flair in the design, with the large and even chamfer to the lugs, and the echo the the Tudor shield on the taper of the crown guards. But it dresses them down by brushing the lot, which I agree is not everyone's taste.

By comparison, for me, the Black Bay is too much of a pastiche of "heritage" elements.

"Lets have snowflake hands, a gilt (effect) dial, red accents and put them in a sub-like case without crown guards."

A mash-up really. If you ignore the heritage, the Black Bay does hang together as a coherent design, but it makes me wince a little to see these elements all squashed in together.

But that's just my opinion.

D

Spot on.

Thirded

[Jock26]

Nice review. I was always interested in both watches, but there sure is no substitute for a sub. Except GS sbga029 maybe

[toezapper]

That's great news, the chap in Portugal was shocked when I told him that we couldn't get Tudors in the UK.

I guess the success of the reintroduction of Tudor into the US suggests to them it's a good move to re-launch it here

I wonder if it is Aurum/Goldsmiths Watches of Switzerland/Mappin & Webb? I had no idea they are Rolex's biggest customer worldwide. I also had no Idea these people are all the same group. Then again I know so very little as I am often told.
WOS are opening a "Destination Store" in London very soon.

[timestuff]

Thanks for the write up must try to check these out in person

[MOD500]

Great report :)

[Badger Plus]

Great review.

I was considering the Pelagos but it seems like it polarises opinion and I need to see how it feels in the hand (or on the wrist). Now I am wondering how the introduction of Tudor to the UK will affect used prices for the BB and Pelagos. Increase in supply would intuitively send used prices south, but it feels as though Tudor don't currently have much brand recognition in the UK, so would the associated marketing and greater brand awareness have the opposite affect?

Thoughts?

[aksing]

I am thinking of a TBB or Speedy at the moment.

[Daffy]

I am thinking of a TBB or Speedy at the moment.

I was in the same position a few months ago, I went for the Black Bay and have not regretted it at all, it is such a nice watch in the flesh. I can honestly say that it has hardly left my wrist since I bought it.

That being said the Speedy is a lovely watch also, you wont go wrong whichever way you choose to go.

[craigvmax]

Great read, I'm still yet to see a BB in the metal, this report went some way to rectifying that