Reply With QuoteJesus that's horrendous
Jesus that's horrendous
Jesus even knowing how many died I wasn't expecting that.
That's around the corner from where my fiancées brother lives in Pinetown!
Horrendous.
Been to one or two of these but, fortunately, without the attrition rate that this one had.
Time from green light showing, to the truck hitting the first vehicle = approx. 3.8 seconds. If the truck is doing 55-60 mph thats about 81-89 feet a second which means it was about 330 feet (100 meters) from the impact point when the traffic light for the vehicles hit turned green.
Time from truck hitting first car to going out of sight = approx. 1.0 second.
If you note, as the video car aproaches the junction, the drivers of all the six vehicles waiting, are itching to get away as they are all sitting with their foot on the brake (brake lights illuminated). The driver of the blue car (first one hit by the truck) also sits with their foot on the brake and creeps forward. As soon as the light goes green it's like a Grand Prix start. At 0.21 on the video timer, as the traffic light for the cross flow traffic, seen just over the roof of the mini bus on the left (white wall tyres) goes to red, there is wheel rotation from that mini bus. The rest is....well.........
Green light = proceed if you can see it's safe to do so. A quick glance left and right takes about a second and it might save your life one day.
Last edited by findo-400; 12th September 2013 at 22:37.
Ever since I nearly got taken out years ago by a stolen car being pursued by a police car at a traffic light junction, I've habitually checked before I proceed regardless of the green light.
excellent observation - watched this again and you're right, many a time i'm driving home from work and the only thing i'm thinking of is 'whats for dinner', frightening really - life is so fragileOriginally Posted by findo-400
Horrendous. I don't understand the part where it says the lorry drivers brakes had failed. On an vehicle with air brakes the high pressure air sytem keeps the brake linings away from the drum. If the system fails the brakes lock on, it's called fail safe. I don't think the driver will be able to talk his way out of that one.
I have been to MANY of these and you are correct, don't assume that someone will stop at a light just because its red.
Always check both ways prior to proceeding.
That is actually sickening to watch.
Years ago on holiday in Australia I nearly got T-boned at 40-50 mph by a gaggle of ockers in an ancient Chrysler Valiant, or some other old doom from a dark age. I was slow away from a set of green lights (no amber there, and when the light goes green even cabbies try to light up their rear tyres with the 300 bhp the average taxi has!). After being instantly honked by the car behind, I let off the brake and a 1960s American-style Chrysler shoots over the junction from the left - his light having gone red long before - only missing me because I was slow off the mark. If that tub of iron had hit me full-on in the side of my tinny rent-a-car, my passenger would have died, with me not far behind. Sadly, it was not the only example of utterly retarded driving during my visit there.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
since watching this yesterday I've been looking right each time I've pulled away from a set of lights - a habit I need to stick to
wow, that's brutal. I do tend to glance right before crossing junctions like that - a habit that I will continue to practise!
That video is frightening!!
The problem with trucks is the braking distance time is longer than the orange light. You can be driving your truck at the speed limit and on approaching the lights they turn orange, there is a point where if you try to stop you will end up in the middle of the junction and if you keep going you will break the red light. It is a tough call for truck drivers but simply making the orange light last a little longer would help stop this sort of terrible accident from happening.
Edit..
I read the story and it says the brakes failed, I don't believe this, I'd say it happened like I said above. He was to close when the lights changed and he kept going.
Last edited by Graeme; 14th September 2013 at 11:23.
Or get truck drivers to slow down near junctions.
The speed limit isn't a target.
Yes I understand that, and agree. But a lot of drivers are under pressure to get their deliveries on time. So it's hard for them to brake and slow down coming up to green lights.
Horrible.
Its not that Im disputing the highlighted part, but might you merely be reading too much into the brake light detail?
I drive a motor with automatic shift gear box and I have a foot on the brake at the lights all the time, unless I know its going to take a long time for the lights to change, in which case I put the gear lever in 'Park' whilst occasionally checking my rear view mirror (if no one is behind me that is). If I see someone comming in my rear view mirror, I most often lightly pump the brake pedal a couple of times. I have on occasion witnessed distracted idiot drivers almost to the very end missing the fact, that Im not moving, especially it there is a big intersection with different lights depening on whether it go or stop for those going straight ahed or to the sides.
Others might just drive manuals and just be ready, as you mention, though I dont see them as being too fast out of the blocks in an ordinary accident-free situation.
That they should have checked the sides and driven with caution cant be disputed of course.
Some lorry are insane. I drive a lot of miles each year and have on occasion almost been killed by moron truck drivers, some of which I actually had eye contact with (I saw them checking traffic and calculating, that they'd be able to yank their rig out in the passing lane in front of me and then do).
If they are responsible professional drivers, they cant claim, that they didnt notice 2.5 ton with the lights on approaching at 130 kmph.
LIterally having ones arse off the seat standing on the brake pedal is no fun at all. To me, its almost attempted murder and they should be flogged, the murdurous bastards. Dead is dead, but there is a heck of a difference between gambling in a Kia Picanto and a big rig Scania.
Some drivers can of course also just be distracted and not even notice a light. I once moved ahead on green and proceeded to move in to the intgersection on my push bike, when a Royal Mail lorry ran a red light light right in front of me and missed me by inches. Driver was texting and nealy ran over a motor further ahead, when he looked up and panicked.
I was on my push bike and had I been a few yards further on, he would have T-boned me. I managed to come to a stop just before he hit me, because I checked on him approaching.
He was clearly flabbergasted over what had happened, but that wouldnt have been much of a consolation.
I remember screaming at him sitting there White as a sheet and with a bovine look on his face. He was still clutching his cell with white knuckles. The moron.
Last edited by WatchScout; 14th September 2013 at 11:46.
Not under pressure to compromise theirs and others safety surely? That is ridiculous
That's true. Also true for those idiots who don't even bother looking or are chatting away on their 'phones whilst crossing at pedestrian crossings - pelican or zebra. They seem to think that because it's their right of way, there's some magical forcefield around them that will protect them so they just step out not even turning to look if something may be coming. It amazes me how stupid people can be. Takes one second to look.
I saw two drivers run red lights today. One just sailed through one and probably had no idea it was there, the other sneaked through looking both ways and knew exactly what he was doing.
I'd be very happy to see both cars crushed.
Try applying the handbrake. Saves all that mucking about putting the shift in Park. (Also stops that annoying/second of fear experienced by the driver behind you as your reversing lights flash as you move it back to Drive when the lights change). Park is for when the vehicle is being left unattended, not for sitting at the traffic lights.
Those that drive manuals and might "just be ready". Ready for what? Driving off as soon as the lights change I would suggest? That's my point. Be ready to move off but not as soon as the lights change but when it's safe to do. So you get a horn toot from the impatient idiot dehind. Big deal. Sooner that than a 40 tonner through your doors!!
"though I dont see them as being too fast out of the blocks in an ordinary accident-free situation". The case in point would have been an accident free situation save for the artic that took out 22 souls. The being too fast out the blocks didn't cause the accident, but was a contributory factor. If they'd all taken a second to check, the truck would've passed through like the texting Royal Mail driver situation you describe.
Oh goodness. Have an auto as well makes me think i shud put handbrake and out into park as well at lights. With all this technology when i takefoot off brake or put in neutral with handbrake the stopstart starts again.
Spot on. There is no reason whatsoever to put an automatic box into Park even if you're stationary for many minutes.
In fact there's a very good reason not to: more wear will take place if you engage Neutral/Park and then Drive.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Only reason for park and handbrake is if you have stopstart technology to save petrol. U have to either keep ur foot on the brake in Drive or shift to Park. If u shift to neutral engine starts up again. Maybe its a design fault.
Your last point I totally agree with - no debate about that one at all.
It may be no bother but the danger you put yourself in is potentially fatal. I think some chap posted earlier....
"If I see someone comming in my rear view mirror, I most often lightly pump the brake pedal a couple of times. I have on occasion witnessed distracted idiot drivers almost to the very end missing the fact, that Im not moving, especially it there is a big intersection with different lights depening on whether it go or stop for those going straight ahed or to the sides." You lightly pump away on the brake pedal whilst sitting "safely" in park. Anyone coming up behind me that looks like they aren't going to stop..? I've pinged the handbrake off whilst planting the right foot swiftly to the boards and steering onto the verge or down the nearside of the preceeding traffic at the same time. He can go on and hit the guy who was sitting in front of me whose likely sitting in park lightly pumping his brake pedal.........
By sitting in park you are assuming that you are not driving because you are having to wait longer than normal. Drive with the mind-set that you might have to move and not that you are temporarily parked. Until you park up and stop your car and get out, you are open to risk and injury. How many unattended parked cars have been destroyed by a "runaway" vehicle?
It's debatable but local traffic culture/bad habbits is not the agrument to adopting potentially unsafe habbits. The fact remains; it's the insecure, incompetent and hesitant drivers whom are the ones that you have to look out for. People who don't notice lights (or anything else for that matter) are not driving with the due care and attention required. In short they are careless drivers in the eyes of the law. Starting a manual car in gear is actually not a problem as you should ALWAYS start your car with the clutch depressed (even if it's in neutral). It stops false neutrals and also takes the load off the starter as it doesn't have to turn the first motion shaft of the gearbox as well as the engine. Particularly on the first start of the day when the gearbox oil is cold. You can't start a modern manual BMW unless the clutch is fully depressed whether it's in gear or in neutral.
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Don't think that because you are having to wait longer at lights or that you accept that there are people out there who have, no appreciation of the consequences of not noticing traffic/brake/or any other kind of lights, failing to stop at junctions and checking that it's safe to continue, see no issue in using mobile phones, applying their makeup, or drinking a cup of scalding coffee whilst driving that you should change your driving style or habbits. A head-on crash at 60 miles per hour is over and finished in 0.0068 of a second. Yes, not 0.68 but under 7 thousanths of a second and a person running up your boot/tailgate at 40-60 mph isn't going to take that much shorter a time. Park when you park, brake when you stop and proceed when it's safe to do so. If your up my way I'd be happy to give you a free assesment drive
Last edited by findo-400; 16th September 2013 at 18:24.
Interesting thread development.
Most of the time I drive manuals - my current car is great in that it requires all engine starts to be undertaken with the clutch depressed. It also has hill assist which temporarily engages the brakes when it senses it is stopped on a gradient.
I do (infrequently) drive an auto though when there is no alternative. Just to re-cap then, when stopped at lights in an auto, what is the collective advice on the procedure in regards to safety and gearbox wear - not to use neutral or park?
Yes. Apply the hand brake. It is what it is for. An auto box will sit quite happily in drive with the handbrake on. The torque converter will take up any load. The box will not overheat as the pump will continue to circulate transmission fluid round the gearbox valve block and through the cooler.
When parking an automatic, engage Park and the handbrake. (If you are off the roadway and leaving the car overnight you can let the handbrake off which will assist to stop the pads/shoes from rusting onto the discs/drums, causing the handbrake to jam on). This is more common in rear drum brake setups particularly in winter when the roads are salted. However, more and more cars are now fitted with the handbrake mechanism incorporated in the foot-brake calliper.(Pads not shoes)
When parking a manual, apply the handbrake, turn the engine off and engage a parking gear (normally first gear). This gives added insurance that, should the handbrake cable snap whilst the car is parked unattended, it won't roll off down the road. This happened to a neighbour of mine....twice...with different cars!!!
Last edited by findo-400; 15th September 2013 at 22:05.
Thanks - appreciate the clarity, that was my concern.
OfG. I'm going to start checking at lights rather than playing traffic light gp
Kinda related question seeing as we have those knowledgable on the thread.
Why do some automatic cars roll backwards whilst in 'Drive' when on an incline and others do not? The reason I ask is that I always thought it was a nice thing about autos that you don't have to piddle about with the handbrake and the clutch control needed for a hillstart until someone I know bought an automatic Toyota Yaris recently and it rolls back when on an incline.
Its very common and stationary vehicles being hit accounts for quite a few fatals too.
If everyone sat with their foot on the brake, then the person behind would have more of a chance of seeing the cars that have (temporarily) stopped at traffic lights etc as a sea of red is far more eye catching than lots of cars who are stopped with no lights showing at all due to thinking that all they need is their handbrake (or putting their car into park).
Maybe something to do with the power of the car? I'm not an expert but thats just what I've found with Autos.
I'm guessing many of the cheaper cars don't have the hold feature, where there are sensors to detect the angle and direction of the car in relation to being in D mode, creating the hill hold function.
Other than vehicles fitted with the hill hold function all automatics will roll backwards when on an uphill-facing slope, its just a matter of degrees (literally!). The 'connection' between the engine and the drive train on an automatic is a torque converter, if you imagine there are two plates with vanes on inside it and filled with viscous fluid: one plate is connected to the engine and the other to the drivetrain. As the engine revs increase it'll drag the other plate by the fluid acting between the two plates. At low revs though the drive plate is barely affecting the driven plate and so (depending on the steepness of the slope) it'll either 'hold' the car stationary or be unable to, in which case the car will roll backwards.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
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