Slow day trying to doge work so thought I would post this up for some Friday musing.
After mentioning to my girlfriend that I was thinking of getting a motorbike/moped for my daily commute in London she reminded me I have been saying this since we met six years ago. In fairness she is probably right, she generally is, and I have an awful memory at best, but this time I think I might actually mean it. A flat/house move on the horizon might see my journey extend to the point where I think it might really be worth it (about 15miles onLondon roads each way), plus I hope it will be more fun than trains and tubes!
My very basic understanding is I could knock off a CBT in a day grab a 125, thinking of a YBR125 to be precise, and being enjoying the freedom of the road! This to me seems the sensible option for at least the first 6-12 months as it would allow me to get a good understanding on riding on the roads, and though with 17 years as a driver in London I believe myself to be towards the competent end of the driving spectrum, I have never ridden a motorbike outside of afield and assume there will be differences I need to get comfortable with seeing as I am the crumple zone should I get it wrong...
However upon reading a few biking forum there seems to be a train of thought that suggests it might be a better approach to push straight through to at least an A2 or possibly full license, and then buy something with a bit more get up and go. I don't really know what the step up in engine sizes really are and I wouldn't want anything big or scary, partly as it is just for commuting through London traffic but mostly because I don't want to kill myself getting to work - I like my job but I don't want to die trying to get there. Assuming there is a logical step up in engine sizes that might offer a bit more without getting silly I can see how this route would sidestep a potential loss on a trade in if/when upgrade time came along later down the line.
So what to do? Fundamentally this will be used for commuting, I don't want or need to go fast and will be on London roads 99% of the time (the 1% is incase I change my mind and want to see what a ride elsewhere would be like). Should I just crack on with the 125cc option or should I be seriously considering plan B and opening up my options?
Any thoughts appreciated.
Ed
I started biking in the early 70's when I bought a Honda K4 250cc to commute to work on as I got fed up of having to take three buses or a couple of long walks.
It was a lot easier to ride with no experience but it set me on a road to bike ownership up to 2006.
I would still do it today as well.
Being from abroad I cant comment on the license options, but for filtering in and out of traffic in London, I would recommend a taller bike with a wide handle bar, like a Suzuki DR 400.
You will be easier seen and not overlooked as on the little 125, you can stear quicker and 400 ccm is still a light and nimble bike.
Others might suggest a > 250ccm scooter for better rain/wet protection.
That is up to your personal choice, but one benefit of a scooter that I do see, would be the auto box, which might be easier in traffic than constantly shifting like on a normal bike.
I have been riding a motorbike for 12 years and commuting daily into Glasgow city centre for 5 years, I can offer some observations if they are of use. Originally like yourself I was going to go down the restricted licence route but part way through the training decided to go down the direct access route. I have known other people who have done the restricted route and have been unhappy with the selection of bikes available to them. I guess the licence part is down to what type of bike you want. As I ride all year including through the winter in the cold and rain then weather protection is important to me. I bought a Burgman 250 a number of years ago which was good for filtering in traffic because it was narrow and provided reasonable weather protection but it was a bit underpowered and not great when the traffic started to get up to speed. I replaced the 250 Burgman with a 650 which has ABS (useful in the winter), electrically retractable mirrors (good for filtering), heated grips, comfy saddle, good storage for helmet, jacket etc and is great at keeping the weather off. I do also use my Goldwing for commuting which is good on the motorway but is nowhere near as good on fuel or as practical for cutting through stationary traffic.
You say that you are used to London traffic and I would say that that is probably the most important aspect as I have known people who have bought scooters and have been seriously injured on them not by their fault but by being hit by a car. I would suggest that the bigger scooters offer better protection in the event of an accident rather than the tiny 50cc or the small 125cc ones.
Good luck with your motor biking adventure.
I used to commute to central London every day for years on sports bikes.
For 100% town riding I'd have a twist & go scooter.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
I'd recommend the same for pure town/commute travel. Nimble, quick enough for the job, weather protection and plenty of storage built in: all good reasons to chose this type of bike for commuting.Originally Posted by andy tims
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
At the risk of a thread hijack: which such scooter is best?
(and how long is a piece of string?)
Thanks all, I had thought a twist and go would make sense from a simplicity point if view which in essence is the purpose of the exercise. As always though a bit of digging and reading forums etc has got me thinking in a variety of directions, which lead to me considering geared bikes, and then possibly a larger engine. If I keep going like this I will probably end up one one of these!
One of my colleagues used to ride in London daily. His advice was to get a tall bike, good high vis clothing, and quickly learn how to position the bike on the road, so the drivers can see you more easily. He spent all day riding in London from business to business, and was knocked off 6 times in 10 years before he quit. He sees that as good odds! :-)
Everyone on the forums will tell you to get a big bike, they always do. There's nothing wrong with a 125 if the conditions and requirements suit it. Your daily costs will be lower, as will the purchase price. I had a 125 Aprilia to start, and that was quick enough for everywhere built up. Modern 125's are much better now, so I would do the CBT and try one. If I was in your position, I would get a 125 which was new enough to be reliable, but cheap enough that if you drop it, you won't cry! Sell it in 6 months and upgrade.
I personally believe there's more to learn to ride a bike well and safely than there is in a car, so you'll need time to get used to it without 600cc between your legs, and the speeds 600cc gets you to without actually trying!
My partner prattled on for years about doing his bike test. 3 and a bit years a go I said just get on and do it or shut up. He took the hint!
Did his CBT and then moved onto his DAS (took a while as he'd never ridden a motorbike or scooter in his youth), he didn't want to be restricted to the type of bikes he could ride or buy.
So for the last 3 years he's been commuting 50 miles a day come rain or shine, after he passed his test bought a GSX650F and 12 months later upgraded to a BMW R1200GS.
He subsequently sold his car and said he wished he'd done it years ago.
If you wear suit and leather shoes for work, a scooter would be a better option. Today many are available with 15 inches wheels, which may assist in better stability.
If not, get a 250+ enduro style bike, the 10-15hp of a 125 will leave you with no spare power if/when needed, and the seating position is much better for manoeuvrability.
Interesting point. The wheel size was another thing that I was told would make the ride easier on a more traditional (if that is the right description) bike as opposed to some of the smaller wheeled scooters. Power-wise I don't think I need a lot but having ridden a bicycle in London a lot the key as anyone who has done it knows is to stay away from the traffic hence why I had assumed that getting away quickly would be the post importnat thing rather than a top speed.
Also interesting to hear the comments about ride height. I am not exactly tall but at 5'11 I had thought if I did go for a 125 then I would have to do the round to find one that 'fitted' as I have heard they can come out a bit on the small side in some cases.
Sounds all too familiar!
I guess alot depends on your self control! When I passed by CBT i got a 125, ran it until the MOT ran out then did my full test and got a Honda CBR600, i can confidently say that had i jumped straight on a big big i'd not be here typing this (well at least not without the help of a headwand/carer!), conversly, my wife went from never having sat on a bike to full licence in the space of a week!
I certainly find a big bike easier to ride at slow speed, which i guess is a weight thing? That said, i have had colossal fun on a scooter i got from a garage as a courtesy bike (just make sure you have a dark visor on so no-one know's it's you!)
Which ever path you choose, the smile on your face after a ride will make it a struggle to take your helmet off!
One other thought, if you do go for your full licence, don't buy a 500 as your 'getting used to riding' bike as you'll out grow it very quickly, everyone i know who did this regretted it and ended up losing a chunk of money when they swapped over to a 600cc or bigger bike.
I commuted about 2/3rds of that distance by motorcycle almost daily last year, but this year I switched to a bicycle and saved the motorized two-wheelers for proper backroad trips. Pedaling takes a bit longer than a motorbike, although it still beats a car most days, but it didn't take long for it to be a normal habit. Norway has great cycling infrastructure, so that helps. London is a quite bit more hazardous on two wheels.
Regarding engine size and safety... the statistic that I always keep in mind is that motorcycle riders are somewhere between 20 and 40 times more likely to be killed per mile travelled than operators of other vehicles. An easier-to-handle bike helps, but it's still significantly more dangerous than any other mode of transport with the possible exception of a motorized street luge.
If an oncoming car turns in front of you, you're going to get mangled no matter what you're riding. Good tires and brakes combined with a riding position that's not too boy-racer-ish can reduce the risk somewhat. But the numbers are what convinced me to stop riding motorcycles daily in traffic and get into the bicycle lanes.
This is some sage advice and I think the risks are the thing that has always put me off. Many years ago my dad rode a scooter in London for 15 years but says he wouldn't do it now - though apparently everything was better back then according to him! He came off it on several occasions, hobbling away with a broken ankle on the worst of them. He always said that at least with a scooter you can 'step off it' where as a bike you are committed to an impact - though I appreciate this may be more reflective of his riding ability than anything else.
The statistics do worry me but I did try cycling but I found that going through central London, which I have to, is about as hazardous as you can get on two wheels and I assumed, possibly wrongly, that if I had an engine then I might be a bit safer, or at least better equipped to get out of trouble if I find myself in a sticky situation.
Ultimately if I do go ahead any step up form the most basic of bikes would only be to save in the long run, not a pursuit of speed as that seems a bit pointless if not dangerous on London roads.
I commute regularly about 20 miles into Manchester. The VFR800 was too big, I used a Honda SH125 for 6 months and it was okay but stretched on a 7mile motorway section (big tyres = stable though). I ended up with a SH300 scooter. Great mpg, nimble and quick enough, 85mph tops and quicker away from the lights than most cars. Shame it looks the way it does. I found hi viz, white helmet, reflective decals and good protective gear a must - I had two 'didn't see you' type incidents in the first two weeks of ownership. The SH300 has just gone over 12K miles so it's doing okay for a 40mile daily commute.
Believe it when folks say city riding can be dangerous on a motorbike / scooter.
I've been riding bikes in london (and all over the world) for 37 years since i was 18. Only a couple of very very minor incidents in all that time.
I'd go for a comfortable twist and go with lots of weather protection, don't be fooled by the last few weeks of weather.
As much as I don't like twist and go's I would recommend that. I've seen people drilling it round London on the new Ducati panigale 1198 and I can't help but wonder why. Obviously that's not all its used for but it's still not ideal. I have a Yamaha yzfr125, I don't think I'm ready for anything larger yet and I've been riding 2 years. Think ill take a step up soon though and get a sv650.
Hi mate, thought I'd throw my 2 pence in,
I currently commute in London on motorbikes and have done for the last 6 years. I have both a 600cc sports bike and a 125 twist and go vespa.
Firstly do it the full bike test its worth it and gives you options and you will want a more powerful bike for fun weekends and the longer journeys.
In regards to commuting , I find I favour the the scooter especially for London. It can get up to 65+ mph more than enough speed for the London roads and also is nimble and easy enough for the busy traffic and filtering through.
Gears can become annoying if you are in constant slow moving traffic.
Of you are going to go for a big bike then get something loud. I know it sounds bad but from a pure safety point of view people will hear you coming and be more aware.
Even if you have driven in London for years, two wheels is a different animal, people in London are pretty inconsiderate to bikers and don't really look so it takes time to get used to. On that note it might be better to get used to London motor bike commuting on a smaller 125 first before upgrading to a larger bike. I have never tried a 250 al though this could be the perfect in between for city commute although im not sure if there is a good resale market for these bike s.
What ever you choose good luck and ride safe.
Mike.
I agree with pretty much all of this - I used to commute from Richmond to the City on a 600 Diversion, which was excellent on the motorway but did restrict the gaps I could use when things got busy. I'd get passed on all sides by people on 50 and 125cc scooters.
The key to safety is to be seen - hi-viz helps but learning how to position yourself so drivers can see you is far more important, you can wear all the hi-viz in the world, but if you're in a drivers blind spot, he still won't see you. London is actually a good town to ride through as drivers are expecting two-wheelers all over the place, but it's still a dangerous option for the brave.
My own choice would be to take the full test and then buy a small scooter. Best of both worlds, possibly cheaper insurance as you have a full license and you get to choose a bigger bike at some point in the future if you want, and it never runs out unlike a CBT.
Lots of previous sound advice so I'll throw my two penn'orth in as well.
Parking.
Unless you're up at sparrow's fart, finding a vacant bike parking slot in the City is like searching for hen's teeth.
Down the years the number of spaces has been cut to next to nothing, and what's there is is usually filled with badly parked scooters.
Nightmare.
When I have to, I've taken to cycling in.
Plus 1 for all the scooter threads, small wheels give you agility, also more visibility. Sure a ybr ar yfz will feel more like a bike, but they put you in the head down arse up position which is great for back lanes not so good in central London. Bmw have bought a range of scooters out, very expensive , but interesingly bigger engines and daylight running lights called burners or blinders! Emphasis being on bright lights to be seen easily.
Lastly if you get a scoot , watch how you park it, lots get pushed over in cities because they are wedged between cars, and if its a Piagio the side panels are metal and they dont spring back.
+1 to all the scooter advice. I chopped in my bike for a 125cc scooter and while its not as fun, its just so much easier in terms of carrying luggage, staying dry and much cheaper to run. Filtering in traffic is a grind no matter what you are on.
However, I am lucky in that I have parking at work and you will need to make sure you can find a place to park.
If you are feeling adventurous then the 3 wheeled mp3 Piaggio is worth a try and its very stable, especially in inclement weather. Also scooters have the advantage of running skirts etc which help you keep a lot drier.
Good luck
I don't commute regularly on a bike, but I did ride in London and do ride in several cities. My personal preference is a tall, low power enduro style bike. The DRZ400 mentioned earlier would be a great choice. Perfect control, does not hesitate on a bump, great visibility high up, cheap, durable, not too attractive to bad people. A scooter is fine in flowing traffic, but for more progressive riding enduro every time.
I'd go for a 250 scooter I reckon. Should be quick enough to get you out of trouble, sat up so you can see what you are doing and auto to make life easy.
A guy I worked with was a bike nut and had one of these for commuting. Took him half the time to get to work than it took me on the tube.
You do see some incredible twisting in traffic by scoot riders... My favourite was the two roundabouts just west of Twickenham bridge. Other traffic standing still or crawling, riders thru in 60 sec!
Ironically somewhere I would pass through on my new route so good to know could be effective against traffic!
Thanks for all the posts, plenty to think over. I had never really considered an auto scooter as I though better to learn to ride with gears but actually I guess for convenience it must make it easier whih makes sense and the point of the exercise, plus better waterproofing is an obvious plus I had not really considered by comparison to a more traditionally styled bike (if that is even how they are referred to!)
Been commuting to work for the last 5 years for 7 months of each year approx. I just got in before the rule changed on the licences. Strrted on. 125 then went to a 675cc. It is the best thing be ever done, goth work with smile on my face and I get to do a bit of filtering past colleagues in the q's.
Word off warning though treat everyone as an idiot and expect the unexpected ...be safe
I commuted from Orpington on both 125 vespa and more recently a 600 Fazer. While the scooter was nimble and quick, the Yam was much more fun!
Both are dangerous though: I never came off in 3 years, but slowly came to the realisation that the risk was too high, and with a young family I couldn't justify it any more.
It's never about you (unless you are an idiot), but you just can't legislate for the other drivers!
And if you do it, go straight for something with a bit of power. The range of 600 all-rounders is fantastic these days!
I'd get my full licence asap, then it's done - they seem to change the route to a full bike licence every few yrs or so making it harder to do, so I'd get this out of the way asap
re what bike - far to many great suggestions above for me to bother adding to your confusion
but i'll add this, for traffic you want low down power, even if the bike/scooter is not that powerful you want it at the twist of a wrist
for example my 600 is fast, but you need to rev it & be in the right gear
if I only commuted thru traffic, then I'd want something lower reving with easier access to the power band
for a similar reason I'd also want a clutch and gears - it's all about the machine control
(I've never been a scooter fan, they seem wobbly to me, but plenty swear by them)
as EVERYONE will CONSTANTLY tell you - biking is dangerous, be safe/hi-vis/everyone else is an idiot is true and sound advice, the final thing you need to do is wear the correct gear, that's decent helmet, gloves, jacket, trousers & boots.
Go to a proper shop and get fitted out in your correct size(s) there's a special way that things should fit you - eg the best elbow armour in the world is no good if it slips down to your forearm!!
good luck & enjoy - motorcycling is a magical & exciting thing
(also don't wear an expensive watch while doing it)
True what he said above.... I never wear a watch on the bike any more. Btw, I've commuted on all sorts of scooters and bikes in all conditions, but if you want my opinion, do it on a fireblade, at least you get to work smiling!
I commuted across London daily for 10 years (Leyton to North Acton & Pinewood). Started with scooters and graduated eventually to an R1100GS.
I second all the advice regarding an upright riding position, essential in London and lets you see the road ahead over the top of parked and moving cars and also be seen. I would get a loan bike when my BMW was in for services, usually another BM, and had always ridden upright 2-wheelers. One day they gave me a CBR600 which I was initially quite chuffed about. It was my worst London riding experience ever. I had practically no view ahead and was pulled out on constantly because I was so low down and hidden by parked cars.
Motorway missile are great on open roads but bloomin' awful in town plus, without the windspeed supporting your body they are murder on the wrists.
Andy
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote