New house extension not fully adhering to planning consent -- what to do?

[markrlondon]

My mother lives in a semi-detached house and her neighbour is building a single storey glass-roofed infill extension to their house (to contain part of a massively enlarged kitchen). The extension will be on the inner side of the two houses, filling in what was previously an open area. There is still a facing open area on my mother's side of the wall.

The neighbours gained planning permission for this construction and my mother did not object, based upon the fact that the roof would be sloping away from the open area on her side and that any supporting wall would follow the sloping line of the new roof.

However, today the builders have started building a supporting end wall that does not follow the plans: It sticks out horizontally, rather than follows the sloping line of the roof. If this had been shown on the plans then my mother would have objected.

Whilst we will be speaking to the neighbours, can anyone tell me whom should we contact at the council to enforce removal of the protruding sections of this wall in order to comply with the agreed plans (should enforcement become necessary)?

I'll add some pics below.

[markrlondon]

Existing Rear Elevation:-


Proposed Rear Elevation:-


Proposed Rear Elevation Zoom In:-


Existing Site Plan:-


Proposed Site Plan:-


Actual wall as at 12:11:-


As you can see from the photo above, the wall runs horizontally outwards from the neighbour's house and does not slope downward. The blue plastic sheeting in the foreground is parallel with the line of the intended glass roof but slightly below where the roof will actually be.

Proposed Rear Elevation Zoom In with end wall location highlighted:-

[blackal]

It's unlikely to differ much from what Scotland has.

Look up the local authority on google
find their page for planning permissions, and you should be able to find the relevant application/objections and approval using the postcode.


Double-check what the 'final' approved plan is, and also if there were any objections.

There will also be a contacts section - and take it from there.

Take some pics of the current state of the alteration, to send to them in an e-mail once you have established contact.

[edit] just seen your plans - It looks like they are now coming above the wall-line, so it looks like you have a reasonable chance of getting it stopped. (or am I reading your drawing incorrectly)

[markrlondon]

Look up the local authority on google
find their page for planning permissions, and you should be able to find the relevant application/objections and approval using the postcode.


Double-check what the 'final' approved plan is, and also if there were any objections.

Yup, got all the info and there were no objections.

There will also be a contacts section - and take it from there.

Thanks. I had done this in a previous unrelated situation and they had been less than helpful so I was unsure if the person named as giving planning consent was the right person to ask. You'd think and expect that they would be the correct person, of course, to ensure that actual building work complies with the plans and the consent.

Take some pics of the current state of the alteration, to send to them in an e-mail once you have established contact.

[edit] just seen your plans - It looks like they are now coming above the wall-line, so it looks like you have a reasonable chance of getting it stopped. (or am I reading your drawing incorrectly)

I have now added a pic of the wall as built so far today and an edited plan highlighting its location.

The wall is at the correct height where it meets the neighbour's house (i.e. just below where the glass roof will meet the house) but it extends out horizontally rather than being stepped down diagonally to follow the intended diagonal line of the roof.

Many thanks for your reply. It confirms the correct course of action.

[MB2]

Given the slope of the woodwork - it could be they have simply misread the plans ?

The lines on the drawing (behind the conservatory) could be read as in front.

Personally I would ask the neighbour first as if it was my house I wouldn't want that ugly wall there (just as your mother doesn't)

[blackal]

That looks like a 'fundamental change from the plan'

I wouldn't waste any time in contacting the relevant authority and ask for a site visit.

[Dave O'Sullivan]

I'm sure a chat with the neighbour will have the desired result. Probably an oversight. It also looks better as per the plans!

[markrlondon]

Given the slope of the woodwork - it could be they have simply misread the plans ?

The lines on the drawing (behind the conservatory) could be read as in front.

Personally I would ask the neighbour first as if it was my house I wouldn't want that ugly wall there (just as your mother doesn't)

That looks like a 'fundamental change from the plan'

I wouldn't waste any time in contacting the relevant authority and ask for a site visit.

I'm sure a chat with the neighbour will have the desired result. Probably an oversight. It also looks better as per the plans!

Yup, it seems very likely that they misread the plans. The outer-upper triangular part of the wall would in fact have been both redundant and unstable as they were initially building it.

Just after I posted here, I spoke to the neighbour and she said she'd contact the architect. Apparently she quickly did so and apparently either she and/or the architect have had words with the builders since they have demolished the non-compliant parts of the wall and have left only the correct sloping section of the wall. Looks like all is now ok.

Phew! It's a good thing I noticed what they were doing this morning. It was also a good thing to get the non-compliant section demolished while the cement was still wet.

Thank you everyone for your comments.

[markrlondon]

As an aside, the building work being done to the neighbour's house is epic. It involves converting almost all of the ground floor into a single open-plan room. This has involved removing no less than five supporting walls! Lots of RSJ has gone in.

[MrBanks]

The council building control will not sign it off if there is a fundamental change to the plans as you have pointed out. I'd contact them immediately.

[markrlondon]

The council building control will not sign it off if there is a fundamental change to the plans as you have pointed out. I'd contact them immediately.

I think it's all been resolved now. No need to contact the Council now.

Something of a relief.

[markrlondon]

Here's an update.

First of all, this is as far as the wall got (at 13:06):-


And then shortly afterwards they started to demolish it.

This is how it looks now:-


The diagonal plank clamped to the wall is intended to act as a guide for them to fill in a fillet of cement to make a smooth top to the wall. I think there's an identical plank on the other side.


Now... here's the thing. I think they've still made a mistake! The wall is no longer objectionable from our point of view BUT, looking at the plans, the end supporting wall is supposed to run horizontally out from the neighbour's house for about 60cm and only then run diagonally down to the property-dividing garden wall. They might still need to make an alteration when the glass roof is finally fitted. Oh well, that's not my fault. ;-) At least they've fixed the objectionable part.

[adrianw]

As an aside, the building work being done to the neighbour's house is epic. It involves converting almost all of the ground floor into a single open-plan room. This has involved removing no less than five supporting walls! Lots of RSJ has gone in.

lets hope it doesn't fall down, if I was living next door I would want some evidence that all the structural calculations and methods were correct, maybe even a second opinion.

[markrlondon]

lets hope it doesn't fall down, if I was living next door I would want some evidence that all the structural calculations and methods were correct, maybe even a second opinion.

Call me overly relaxed but if it does fall down and damage my Mum's house then everything will be taken care of by insurance.

As it happens, I have not done any calculations (wouldn't know where to start) but I do have my doubts about ground pressure distribution. The weight of the upper storey was originally distributed over a reasonably wide area below the various supporting walls. Now it is concentrated on a few much smaller areas, mainly fairly small (in cross sectional area) newly built brick columns upon which the new RSJs rest.

I'm not an architect but this change in weight distribution (i.e. it is now much more focussed in a few relatively small areas) seems... brave. But what do I know? The ground underneath is clay and the existing foundations are nothing spectacular.

Well, as I said when I first saw the plans: If it does fall down then on their head be it, literally.

[dandanthewatchman]

have they served Party Wall Act Notice ??

that also might be worth checking. they will pay your mum's fees

[Thorien]

Call me overly relaxed but if it does fall down and damage my Mum's house then everything will be taken care of by insurance.

As it happens, I have not done any calculations (wouldn't know where to start) but I do have my doubts about ground pressure distribution. The weight of the upper storey was originally distributed over a reasonably wide area below the various supporting walls. Now it is concentrated on a few much smaller areas, mainly fairly small (in cross sectional area) newly built brick columns upon which the new RSJs rest.

I'm not an architect but this change in weight distribution (i.e. it is now much more focussed in a few relatively small areas) seems... brave. But what do I know? The ground underneath is clay and the existing foundations are nothing spectacular.

Well, as I said when I first saw the plans: If it does fall down then on their head be it, literally.

Calculations will have been checked by building control engineer. Also there is usually a factor of safety of minimum 2 to up to 3 times built in. Unless they've made changes to those submitted to building control, in theory it should be fine.

[markrlondon]

have they served Party Wall Act Notice ??

that also might be worth checking. they will pay your mum's fees

No notices have been served. In fact the neighbours (who are new) did not even say hello when they moved in and did not tell us when they were beginning the building works. It just started at 06:30am one day.

Fees for what, may I ask?

[dandanthewatchman]

No notices have been served. In fact the neighbours (who are new) did not even say hello when they moved in and did not tell us when they were beginning the building works. It just started at 06:30am one day.

Fees for what, may I ask?

if they are doing works close to your mum's boundary then they need to serve a Party Wall Act notice, that then gives you mum the right to appoint a surveyor to check all OK on behalf of your mum & the other side have to pay the fees. Given they have put in so much steel I'd be worried about movement/cracking. I would check out local specialist surveyors who do Party Wall work & ask them to pop by and take it from there.

[Dave+63]

I’m sure they’ll have used a structural engineer to calculate the required beam sizes and supporting structures.

Everything should be ok as this is bread and butter to SEs, they could probably do it in their sleep!

[Thorien]

No notices have been served. In fact the neighbours (who are new) did not even say hello when they moved in and did not tell us when they were beginning the building works. It just started at 06:30am one day.

Fees for what, may I ask?

Depending on what sort of foundation they are installing they should serve notice under the party wall act (if they are building within 3 or 6 metres of one of your foundations) and give 2 months notice before works start. They will pay for your party wall surveyor if you do not give agreement to their written notice.

EDIT: Sorry it's a minimum of 1 months notice. (I always give 2 months notice myself)

[Thorien]

check this out:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wa...-1996-guidance

and this:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wa...natory-booklet

[markrlondon]

Calculations will have been checked by building control engineer. Also there is usually a factor of safety of minimum 2 to up to 3 times built in. Unless they've made changes to those submitted to building control, in theory it should be fine.

That's what I would have thought. The building work that I have been able to observe seems to match the plans (other than the wall they began this morning). All the same, better them than me in my opinion.

For what it's worth, there are no calculations included in the online-accessible planning application.

Interestingly, what was previously the brick property-dividing garden wall (completely open to the elements for 130 years with pointing in very poor condition) is now going to be the outer wall of their new kitchen extension. I am very doubtful that it will be water proof in the longer run. There is a newly built inner brick wall on their side and some foam panel insulation but nothing that will prevent moisture ingress over time that I can see.

[Thorien]

For what it's worth, there are no calculations included in the online-accessible planning application.

There wont be, as what you can see online is just the planning details not the building control calcs or papers. Seperate departments. Building control could even be done by a private firm these days... (which IMO is not a great idea! )

[markrlondon]

if they are doing works close to your mum's boundary then they need to serve a Party Wall Act notice, that then gives you mum the right to appoint a surveyor to check all OK on behalf of your mum & the other side have to pay the fees. Given they have put in so much steel I'd be worried about movement/cracking. I would check out local specialist surveyors who do Party Wall work & ask them to pop by and take it from there.

Depending on what sort of foundation they are installing they should serve notice under the party wall act (if they are building within 3 or 6 metres of one of your foundations) and give 2 months notice before works start. They will pay for your party wall surveyor if you do not give agreement to their written notice.

Very interesting. I was aware that they would be building the infill because I happened to meet the new neighbour before she moved in and she verbally told me about it (I just happened to be in the front garden when she was visiting the property before she moved in). But, apart from that informal and brief conversation, there have been no other notices from them.

The council did sent a letter giving my mum an opportunity to object but nothing from the neighbour or her architect that I am aware of.

As far as I can tell, the builders did dig some foundations for the new external walls they built but they were not deep from what I could tell. I think one foundation ran along the line of the party garden wall (to support their new inner wall) and possibly another (not sure) was at the rear underneath the end wall that they incorrectly built today.

check this out:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wa...-1996-guidance

and this:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wa...natory-booklet

Thank you.

[markrlondon]

<sigh> Although I wrote above that "the building work that I have been able to observe seems to match the plans (other than the wall they began this morning)", I am now not so sure.

If you look at the "Proposed Rear Elevation Zoom In" picture it shows the new roof and/or end wall coming down to the top of the existing garden dividing wall. However, if you look at the pictures I took, it is clear that they have extended about 1 foot vertically upwards from the top of the garden wall. This will mean that the roof will be about 1 foot higher than shown on the plans, if I am reading it all correctly.

Pictures below for clarity.

Am I reading the plans correctly? Am I being overly-pedantic? And is it too late to do anything about it?

Proposed Rear Elevation Zoom In (shows no vertical rise above the existing garden wall):-


This is how it looks now (shows the roughly 1 foot of vertical height added above the existing garden wall):-

[MrBanks]

lets hope it doesn't fall down, if I was living next door I would want some evidence that all the structural calculations and methods were correct, maybe even a second opinion.

Building control have to sign off on all plans and calculations before building can commence.

[Thorien]

According to those drawings their side wall should be 2 m high from ground level on your side (the same as the garden wall?) if it's more than that you can complain to the planners and they can stop works and make them put it right... it is not too late and they should either stick to what they have permission for or get an amendment approved.

[adrianw]

if that work was happening next door to me, I would want to know what was holding up the roof, or at least someone independent reassuring me that all was as it should be. I would also want it notarised in such a way that if things start cracking in months or years to come, I have recourse to the neighbour.

[lewie]

Shoot me down if I’m wrong but isn’t that wall marked up an 2000? Surly that garden wall is not 2m high
It actually shows the glass roof sitting on the newly constructed wall below the existing wall (1st pic)

[Chris_in_the_UK]

if that work was happening next door to me, I would want to know what was holding up the roof, or at least someone independent reassuring me that all was as it should be. I would also want it notarised in such a way that if things start cracking in months or years to come, I have recourse to the neighbour.

Not really something you would be privy to - that’s why building controi oversee things, they will only sanction work that meets current regs and they will want to see all the calculations for structural steel etc. Good luck getting anything notarised.

[aldfort]

The drawing shows a change of angle in the roof line. Probably the easiest way to do this is with a number of shaped steels.
I would have assumed that they would want to take down a section of the garden wall and rebuild it to make sure it would take the weight.
Where is the rainwater going to go?
The boundary is presumably down the middle of the existing garden wall?
You need to speak with building control who should be supervising and also to Planning Enforcement.

[adrianw]

Not really something you would be privy to - that’s why building controi oversee things, they will only sanction work that meets current regs and they will want to see all the calculations for structural steel etc. Good luck getting anything notarised.

it does seem that you would have recourse if it went tits up after some time had lapsed.


http://constructionblog.practicallaw...-is-completed/

[dandanthewatchman]

Mark - as so often is the case on TZ - some knowledgeable comments given & well meaning "assumptions"

I see Building Control frequently ignored / overworked.

If it was my property/mother/client I would immediately skip from the advice given here to getting proper professionals involved and down to the property.

Firstly a Party Wall surveyor. Then see what he says. I doubt it will end up costing your mother anything. PM JC180 on here and although he is Manchester based he may well know a Party Wall surveyor local to your mum

[mickylall]

Surely the 1 foot that is vertical is temporary, looks like boarding to me, and the sheeting is fastened to it to allow them to carry on working inside. I'm also fairly sure that they will be building a wall on their side to take the weight of the roof, don't the drawings show this?

+1 to dandan

[cyrusir]

your mum will be living beside them as well, so try and keep it cordial with them as long as they reciprocate,

people can get into awful arguments over this kind of thing and its often not warranted.

[markrlondon]

According to those drawings their side wall should be 2 m high from ground level on your side (the same as the garden wall?) if it's more than that you can complain to the planners and they can stop works and make them put it right... it is not too late and they should either stick to what they have permission for or get an amendment approved.

Ok, I've just been outside with a tape measure. Should have done this before, of course.

The thick/bold solid black line on the plans (see the "Proposed Rear Elevation Zoom In" pic, for example) is, as far as I can tell, intended to show the ground level and the cross section of the existing property-dividing garden wall. I can confirm that the height of the garden wall does not change between the "existing elevations" drawings and the "proposed elevations" drawings. It is the same throughout.

The only part of the thick/bold solid black line that changes between the "existing" and "proposed" drawings is the floor height on the neighbour's side. The floor is shown being raised up by a few centimetres.

The garden wall is marked as being 2000mm tall from the ground to the top on the drawing on my mum's side. This is incorrect. It is in fact 184cm tall (varying in some locations to 192cm tall), as best I can measure it. Although the top of the wall seems reasonably level, the ground level varies. It's hard to find a datum point.

The insulation that pokes out above the garden wall on the neighbour's side is not quite as tall as I had thought. It measures about 21.5cm in height. This means that the total height of the garden wall and insulation above it (measure from the ground on my mum's side) is at least 205.5cm and at most 213.5cm.

I also measured the height of the newly lowered end wall where it abuts the garden wall. The top of the end wall where it abuts the garden wall is 43.5cm above the height of the garden wall. According to the plan (see "Proposed Rear Elevation Zoom In" again), the end wall should, as far as I can tell, meet the top of the garden wall.

Shoot me down if I’m wrong but isn’t that wall marked up an 2000? Surly that garden wall is not 2m high
It actually shows the glass roof sitting on the newly constructed wall below the existing wall (1st pic)

Yes, as far as I can tell, the drawings show the glass roof resting on the newly constructed wall (constructed on the neighbour's side abutting the existing garden wall). The glass roof and internal wall are shown as dual dashed lines.

In addition, I think the plans show the end wall as a solid line which comes out horizontally from the neighbour's house for 60cm or so and then comes down at a diagonal angle to meet the top of the garden wall on the centre line.

As things stand now, it looks like all of this is raised up by several centimetres from where it should be according to the plans.

The drawing shows a change of angle in the roof line. Probably the easiest way to do this is with a number of shaped steels.
I would have assumed that they would want to take down a section of the garden wall and rebuild it to make sure it would take the weight.
Where is the rainwater going to go?
The boundary is presumably down the middle of the existing garden wall?
You need to speak with building control who should be supervising and also to Planning Enforcement.

I understand that the roof will be aluminium frames with glass panels.

I had thought that the sensible thing to do would be to rebuild the garden wall but no attempt has been made to do so and no such intention is indicated by the plans. In fact, it would seem that the weight of the new roof will be supported by the (quite thin) new wall built on the neighbour's side of the garden wall. The only problem is that the new wall seems to protrude above the height of the existing garden wall which the plans suggest should not be the case.

Rainwater: I don't know. I've wondered about this too. I presume that drainage will be provided (although quite where it will fit in I do not know) but none is shown on plans.

Yes, as far as I have been able to ascertain the boundary is down the middle of the existing garden wall.

[Thorien]

I'd speak to the planning officer in charge with this case (details should be on the letter to your mother and online) and tell them it seems to be being built higher than permitted and ask for a site visit.
Also perhaps try and speak with the neighbours about concerns and ask why party wall notice was not given. Secondly find a local party wall surveyor and ring them explain where you are at...
A bit of mess tbh...

Good luck!

Hopefully though it can be resolved cordially if your neighbours are decent minded. TBH they may not know about the party wall act either (though of course that is no excuse and their architect should have mentioned it to them.)

[markrlondon]

If it was my property/mother/client I would immediately skip from the advice given here to getting proper professionals involved and down to the property.

Money money money. I need to confirm whether or not the other side should have notified my mum and paid for a surveyor (see Thorien's useful comments and links) and, if so, then I will see about approaching them.

In the meantime, although the erroneous wall section was very quickly removed, I really need to understand whether what we see here is compliant with the plans. I don't think it is (at the moment). If not, then I will get directly in touch with the planning department.

PM JC180 on here and although he is Manchester based he may well know a Party Wall surveyor local to your mum

Thanks.

Surely the 1 foot that is vertical is temporary, looks like boarding to me, and the sheeting is fastened to it to allow them to carry on working inside. I'm also fairly sure that they will be building a wall on their side to take the weight of the roof, don't the drawings show this?

No, the white stuff is permanent: It is insulating foam material and has been cemented in place. It was laid between the existing garden wall and the new wall built on their side. The new wall on their side also protrudes above the existing garden wall. I have some pics of the top of the insulation and wall before the plastic sheeting was put on and I'll post them.

Note also, the end wall protrudes way above the garden wall. See my measurement in message above.

your mum will be living beside them as well, so try and keep it cordial with them as long as they reciprocate,

people can get into awful arguments over this kind of thing and its often not warranted.

Well yes, indeed. One must nevertheless stand up for one's quality of life. Even with the sloping roof as shown on the plans, my mother's view of the outside world would be impinged to some extent (albeit not too much to reasonably object). She is confined to a single room and so this matters.

[markrlondon]

The garden wall is marked as being 2000mm tall from the ground to the top on the drawing on my mum's side. This is incorrect. It is in fact 184cm tall (varying in some locations to 192cm tall), as best I can measure it. Although the top of the wall seems reasonably level, the ground level varies. It's hard to find a datum point.

I should add that the neighbour's architect or surveyor never actually measured the height of the garden wall on my mum's side. The marked 2000mm must be an estimate. Either that or they trespassed in order to gain a measurement (but still managed to exaggerate the height).

No, the white stuff is permanent: It is insulating foam material and has been cemented in place. It was laid between the existing garden wall and the new wall built on their side. The new wall on their side also protrudes above the existing garden wall. I have some pics of the top of the insulation and wall before the plastic sheeting was put on and I'll post them.

I should also add that the blue plastic sheeting right across the open space is quite new. It was added quite recently after floor screeding was put down. Before that, the area had been open to the elements (although the top of the newly built wall and insulation was covered for several weeks by a smaller black sheet that kept on blowing off in the wind).

[Thorien]

I should add that the neighbour's architect or surveyor never actually measured the height of the garden on my mum's side. The marked 2000mm must be an estimate. Either that or they trespassed in order to gain a measurement (but still managed to exaggerate the height).

All that matters is their permission under planning is upto 2m in height (as measured from ground level your side) before the pitch roof of that extension starts - any more than that is not permitted - if you are at all concerned speak to the planner and get them to visit site asap. They can then ascertain whats what and if necessary they can ensure that works stop where they are (until this is resolved).

I assume btw this is being done under full planning permission as opposed to permitted development rights. Again best bet is to speak to the planners. Even the duty planning officer should be able to give guidance in the first instance.

[markrlondon]

All that matters is their permission under planning is upto 2m in height (as measured from ground level your side) before the pitch roof of that extension starts - any more than that is not permitted

Can I just confirm what you mean here: That the pitch roof of the extension must start no more than 2m above ground level measured on our side. Is that correct?

It's very difficult indeed to envisage exactly where the roof will be mounted but with the insulation and new inner wall protruding above the existing garden wall to the extent that they do, it does seem unlikely that the lowest point of the roof could be less than or equal to 2m above ground.

if you are at all concerned speak to the planner and get them to visit site asap. They can then ascertain whats what and if necessary they can ensure that works stop where they are (until this is resolved).

Yes, going to call them tomorrow.

Thanks for all your advice.

[Thorien]

Can I just confirm what you mean here: That the pitch roof of the extension must start no more than 2m above ground level measured on our side. Is that correct?

It's very difficult indeed to envisage exactly where the roof will be mounted but with the insulation and new inner wall protruding above the existing garden wall to the extent that they do, it does seem unlikely that the lowest point of the roof could be less than or equal to 2m above ground.



Yes, going to call them tomorrow.

Thanks for all your advice.

Yes, I'm just going by that drawing and it seems to me that their guttering and the beginning off the pitched roof should be at 2m (max) as measured from your side if not lower. That drawing is a bit confusing tbh - are they actually using the party garden wall as the outside wall of their extension cavity wall? ie the insulation butts up against the garden wall? If so that's very odd in itself. If that is the case get a party wall surveyor down their too asap!

[Rodder]

Mark - as so often is the case on TZ - some knowledgeable comments given & well meaning "assumptions"

I see Building Control frequently ignored / overworked.

If it was my property/mother/client I would immediately skip from the advice given here to getting proper professionals involved and down to the property.

Firstly a Party Wall surveyor. Then see what he says. I doubt it will end up costing your mother anything. PM JC180 on here and although he is Manchester based he may well know a Party Wall surveyor local to your mum

This, there should 100% be a party wall act. There will have to pay but I'd get on the case ASAP. Speak to a surveyor and all your questions will be answered.

You can still be friendly and cordial but with the information on what your rights are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Yes, I'm just going by that drawing and it seems to me that their guttering and the beginning off the pitched roof should be at 2m (max) as measured from your side if not lower. That drawing is a bit confusing tbh - are they actually using the party garden wall as the outside wall of their extension cavity wall? ie the insulation butts up against the garden wall? If so that's very odd in itself.

I would suspect that if this is the case then building control cannot have seen any foundation works prior to getting to this point and the requirements for a garden wall differ significantly to those for a structural wall and would be inadequate.

[markrlondon]

Some more pics for those who are interested. All taken today.

This shows the rear of the neighbour's property. You can see the now diagonal end wall (which had to be partly demolished earlier today) built on top of the RSJ:-


This is a closeup of the new end wall (the one they had to partly demolish today). The top of the three bricks you can see is 43.5cm above the top of the existing garden wall (the dirty bricks with thick lichen you can see below):-


A view of the garden wall with the insulation protruding above it by 21.5cm on the neighbour's side. The new inner wall on the neighbour's side (on the other side of the insulation) is to the same height as the top of the insulation:-


The height of the garden wall measured from the ground varies from 184cm tall to 192cm, depending on variations in ground level.

[Thorien]

Structurally the inner leaf will be taking the weight (but yes the foundation should support the whole wall!) and from a party wall point of view that garden wall has now become the outside wall of their house, who is liable if something happens to your side of the garden wall as it exposes the insulation on the their side!?! Very odd. That's if they have not built a a full cavity wall inside of the garden wall. Which from the photos it doesn't appear they have!

Ps: Not necessarily anything legally wrong with that but I've just not seen it done like that before.

Get a party wall surveyor down there - they will have to pay his costs. At least that way everything will be officially documented.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

There is an absence of any padstones on the RSJ?

[aldfort]

There is an absence of any padstones on the RSJ?

That would seem to be right. If so they have done it wrong.

[Thorien]

I would suspect that if this is the case then building control cannot have seen any foundation works prior to getting to this point and the requirements for a garden wall differ significantly to those for a structural wall and would be inadequate.

Yep perhaps they underpinned the garden wall when they dug the foundation for the inner leaf? Surely building control is involved!?

[markrlondon]

Yes, I'm just going by that drawing and it seems to me that their guttering and the beginning off the pitched roof should be at 2m (max) as measured from your side if not lower. That drawing is a bit confusing tbh

Thanks for the confirmation.

I'm glad you think the drawing is confusing too. It's really not clear to me which lines are intended to represent what physical objects. As far as I can tell, the dual dashed line represents the inner wall of the extension and the roof, and the solid line represents the end wall.

are they actually using the party garden wall as the outside wall of their extension cavity wall? ie the insulation butts up against the garden wall? If so that's very odd in itself. If that is the case get a party wall surveyor down their too asap!

Yes, that is seemingly correct.

Have a look at the pics below which I took a few weeks ago. Is there something extra between the wall and the insulation or is it just the protruding course of bricks in the garden wall? I can't quite tell.

Structurally the inner leaf will be taking the weight but from a party wall point of view that garden wall has now become the outside wall of their house, who is liable if something happens to your side of the garden wall as it exposes the insulation on the their side!?! Very odd. That's if they have not built a a full cavity wall inside of the garden wall. Which from the photos it doesn't appear they have!

Quite. I thought it was odd too but I didn't really care as long as it was compliant with the plans. However, the height issue is what has now exercised me.

Get a party wall surveyor down there - they will have to pay his costs. At least that way everything will be officially documented.

Will pursue this.

There is an absence of any padstones on the RSJ?

Wossat then? ;-)

In all cases that I have been able to see, bricks are laid directly on top of a layer of cement which is laid on top of the RSJs.

The RSJs also seem to rest directly on brick columns or walls in (almost) all the cases that I have been able to see. See pics below.


Some pics of the wall showing structure...

24/11/2017 12:29. Shows the inner thin breezeblock(?) wall under construction. You'll see that there is what appears to be a gap between the new inner wall and the garden wall. I think this is due to the horizontal protruding course of bricks on the garden wall. As far as I could tell, the gap beneath the protruding course was filled with foam insulation panels (but note that I could not see that side of the wall).


24/11/2017 15:25. A few hours later and the inner wall is completed and foam insulation panels have been installed. Is there another layer between the foam insulation panels and the garden wall, or is that dark gap simply due to the protruding course or bricks near the top of the garden wall? I can't tell.


25/12/2017 11:38. Close up showing part of the inner wall and insulation. The gap between the insulation and the garden wall has been filled with a fillet of cement. You can also see the RSJ holding up the rear of the property and the beginning of the works to remove the side wall of the property. Is that a padstone or a thin fillet of cement under the RSJ?


28/12/2017 15:54. A view of the rear of the property showing wall structure and RSJ. The rear RSJ does appear to be at the correct height according to the plans. But the wall running along the garden wall seems to be too high according to the plans (as far as I can tell).