Reply With QuoteI think you'd easily achieve £2100 for a brand new one, dealers sell used ones for this price
If you get the black face model I might even buy it from you, drop me a PM if you do the deal and want to move it on
I recently took my Breitling Intruder to Mappin & Webb in Manchester for a service and a new battery (no affiliation etc but the customer service was excellent). They said the watch was no longer functioning correctly and suggested I send it to Breitling For them to have a look at it.
Breitling confirmed M & W's conclusion but unfortunately it is also obsolete so they don't have the parts anymore. On a watch I bought brand new in 1998!
So I'm slightly irked that a mid/high level brand watch company plans obsolescence in their quartz watches.
However, they've offered me a generous discount on a new Aerospace, or a reasonable discount off any if their other watches. I wasn't going to bother because I don't want an Aerospace (I'll never buy another Breitling quartz) and I didn't think I'd make much if any profit if I sold it on. That was until the Aerospace/Superocean thread recently; out of the two the Aerospace was the winner. For a quartz. Against an auto. On a WIS forum.
So, would any of you kind folks out there be able to advise me on whether I'll be able to sell the Aerospace for about £2100 (£1000 off the RRP of £3100 and which will give me some profit) or should I just get my old watch back?
I think you'd easily achieve £2100 for a brand new one, dealers sell used ones for this price
If you get the black face model I might even buy it from you, drop me a PM if you do the deal and want to move it on
I'd expect it to fetch maybe £1800 ish based on what I would be willing to pay. They are lovely but they wear well and there are a lot of good used examples to be had for £1200-ish or less.
If it were me though, I'd keep the new one, especially now the hideous pinstripe dial seems to have gone (actually there are images with and without on the website). They are great watches.
Last edited by stooo; 6th August 2013 at 09:35.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
What happened to the Aerospace Evo that came out at Basel? It all went pretty quiet.
Or buy a watch on ebay that holds the same movement as your intruder : the Breitling B232 found in the Intruder and New Pluton is actually a miyota Y652 which can be found in many seiko (h461) alba and pulsar watches , you shouldn't pay much more than 60 euros, have it replaced by a non breitling watchmaker. I did the same for my cousins New Pluton which was also 'broken' according to Breitling. (total cost including replacement was 50 euros)
These movements come with a silver or gold background in the lcd part so make sure you get the right one for your watch.
Or sell your broken Intruder to me, I'll give you 100 euros for it, and that is very generous...(just kidding, get it fixed and enjoy it some more years)
Vanguard - mate, if I decide to go down that route you can have any face or strap/bracelet you like.
Bnootens - awesome call! I didn't know that, thanks. That's definitely an option. Erm, am I ok to be even more pi**ed off with Breitling for sneaking a cheaper movement into the watch? At the time, and this was before the internet really took off, I assumed I was buying a Swiss watch. Though was nowt wrong with it. Till now.
As to sneaking cheaper movements in...seems like they did that a lot and for many years. Only recently do I feel they're gone more legit. The Chronomat that I have from the 90's as been into service so many times. It's suppose to be an auto, but it's easier just to manually wind it.
Originally Posted by Tangent
FYI - found this little history of the Pluton - makes for an interesting read. . .
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f39/bre...istory-98.html
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Wow! Cheers Martyn! A lot I didn't know. And I'm even more ticked off! I thought I was buying a BMW (and paid BMW money) but received a re-badged Hyundai! Not that there's anything wrong with a Hyundai, I just would expect to pay less than I would for a BMW. That it was the same darn watch as the Scubapro etc is a right cheek. What other shenanigans did Breitling get up to?
I thought Breitling kept parts for all their watches for 30 years?
I am genuinely very surprised that a watch bought in 1998 is already obsolete.
Similar watch was also made in Italy by DPW
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f15/bre...pw-296684.html
I handled both a dpw and Breitling New Pluto ( not at the same time) but iirc the Breitling did feel heavier (= higher quality ?)
Ditto! They certainly did a great job with my old-style Chronospace last year, which is almost 20 years old and is a model no longer in production. No mention of parts availability, and I opted for a new dial too.....
Anyway, I had a few spare minutes in London last week and popped into their Boutique on New Bond Street. They had the new 2013 Aerospace Evo in all three colours and I was very very impressed. The grey (rather than the black) is very dark and tones very nicely with the titanium body and bracelet (better than the black IMHO). A very nice watch indeed ...... If you got one at a bargain, you might actually grow to like/love it ......
Sorry to hear Breitling can't repair your watch.
For me £1000 wouldn't be enough of a saving, if it was 50% I'd consider it. Was it M&W that offered this or Breitling?
Andrew Michaels currently have Aerospace on Titanium Pro on sale for £2325, Chronospace on mesh bracelet is £2933, both inclusive of VAT. Very surprised that parts for a 15 year old watch are not available.
Thanks folks for all the info and suggestions.
Mantaray: I'm not entirely sure it's the new Evo I've been offered - I need to dig out the paperwork this weekend and check.
Christech: I totally agree 2100 isn't a great discount; 2100 is what I'd be selling it for. This gives me a modest profit. And it was Breitling that offered this.
I was very disappointed when told the parts were no longer available. I no longer loved the Intruder as much as I did when I bought it, but when you see watches from the 20s and 30s from defunct manufacturers still going strong (though obviously they're mechanical), a 15 year old model from a premium brand being canned is a bit irritating.
Just to clarify, the Y652 is not a Miyota (Citizen group) movement, it's a Pulsar (Seiko group) movement.
Interesting link here: http://www.digitalwatchlibrary.com/D...sar-y652-5160/
The Seiko branded version, H461 (as bnootens says) is also mentioned here: http://www.digital-watch.com/DWL/1work/seiko-h461-600a/
The Y652 and H461 should be physically compatible.
And, worse still, it's not even the whole truth.
It is the truth in so far as Breitling do not hold any stocks of new movements for them, They will not fit a used movement so what they are saying is correct.
That's exactly what I mean: It is correct and true in so far as it goes but it is nevertheless misleading because it is not the whole or complete truth that is substantively relevant to the situation. The more complete truth, what is very much relevant to the situation, is that the watch can be repaired and furthermore it can be repaired with a movement that is identical to the one originally installed, albeit with a replacement movement that will not be new.
I.e. Despite Tangent being told by Breitling that "the parts were no long available" (to quote Tangent's understanding of what he was told), the parts are available in reality (just not brand new parts).
How would you feel if you sent a watch in for repair and they fitted second hand parts !!!! Breitling would never do that and neither should they so when they said there were no parts available they meant NEW UNUSED parts
This is unreasonable. Fitting only brand new parts is exactly what you'd expect of a premium brand's approach to service. The number of people who would expect used/old parts to be fitted as if they were new, on the basis that technically speaking, they're better than the dead parts already in the watch, is close to zero. Certainly, they are massively outnumbered by the people who on being told that parts were available, got mightily pissed off that they found Breitling had fitted used parts.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Used parts? Hmmm, interesting points. I agree if Breitling had fitted used parts and not told me, I would be really annoyed (if I ever found out). But I am considering sourcing the Miyota part myself. How would I feel if Breitling offered to cannibalise old stock to repair mine? I dunno. Miffed that it wasn't brand new or happy to see my watch working properly again?
I think I'd probably go the latter.
Missed point, I think. As I said, I would prefer it in this situation if they told me the full facts and did not mislead me by omission as to the availability of parts if they did not want to do the work themselves with used parts.
As it happens, doing repairs with used parts is perfectly acceptable in situations like this as long as the client is advised as to the issues and asked permission to proceed.
Yes. And, as I said (and to repeat the key issue here as written in my previous message), this is correct and true in so far as it goes but it is nevertheless misleading because it is not the whole or complete truth that is substantively relevant to the situation. The more complete truth, what is very much relevant to the situation, is that the watch can be repaired and furthermore it can be repaired with a movement that is identical to the one originally installed, albeit with a replacement movement that will not be new.
I.e. Despite Tangent being told by Breitling that "the parts were no long available" (to quote Tangent's understanding of what he was told), the parts are available in reality (just not brand new parts).
Last edited by markrlondon; 8th August 2013 at 11:58. Reason: Fixed typos
We'll have to agree to disageee (but we should be clear about what exactly we are disgreeing about, hence the text below).
You are addressing a point I have not made. I made no comment on what parts Breitling should actually fit. My comments so far have been solely about the information the Breitling provided.
Let me quote my laast comment in fully for the clarity:
As you can see if you read it fully, my comments was solely about information, about telling the whole truth and thus not being misleading due to omission.That's exactly what I mean: It is correct and true in so far as it goes but it is nevertheless misleading because it is not the whole or complete truth that is substantively relevant to the situation. The more complete truth, what is very much relevant to the situation, is that the watch can be repaired and furthermore it can be repaired with a movement that is identical to the one originally installed, albeit with a replacement movement that will not be new.
I.e. Despite Tangent being told by Breitling that "the parts were no long available" (to quote Tangent's understanding of what he was told), the parts are available in reality (just not brand new parts).
However, now to address the separate and distinct point you and sonyman raised about fitting of secondhand parts...
It all depends. You are assuming.
Personally I would hope that Breitling would not fit used parts without telling me but, if they can only repair a watch with used parts, here is what I would hope and expect them to do:
(1) I would expect them to tell me the whole truth and not mislead me (in effect) by telling me that parts are not available when they so clearly are available.
(2) I would expect them to offer to fit used parts with the caveat that they are used and cannot be guaranteed as if they had fitted a new part.
(3) I would expect them to ask my permission to proceed.
Whilst I would be very upset that they did not retain new replacement parts for the watch, I would be far less upset about this than about being misled by being told that parts were not available (regardless of whether they are new or used) when in fact they are available in reality.
Of course. But then I have made no suggestion that Brietling should fit used parts without prior warning, explanation and agreement.
My concern here, until you and sonyman raised the parts fitment issue, is that Breitling has effectively misled Tangent by saying falsely that parts are not available when in fact they are available (the fact that they are used parts does not make this any less misleading).
Last edited by markrlondon; 8th August 2013 at 12:07. Reason: Fixed typos
All true - but so theoretical as to border on pedantry because you're looking absolutes. No one else expects Breitling the manufacturer to recommend fitting old used parts bought off eBay or whatever. The liability exposure alone means they never will.
Last edited by andrew; 10th August 2013 at 13:35.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Exactly the same happened to me. 1997 Aerospace needed a new movement 2 years ago due to Breitling not maintaining any spares for that series.
Cost, including refurb of bracelet, hands, claws etc - was a whopping £830 :(
Did consider cutting my losses, but went for the repair.
Forgot to ask Breitling for the old movemebt back, so no doubt they gained some parts for other people's watches ;)
Al
Again you seem to me to be missing the point of what I actually said and trying to turn it into some other point, one that you have raised.
I do not in fact expect "Breitling the manufacturer to recommend fitting old used parts bought off eBay or whatever" (although they could perfectly reasonably, legitimately and acceptably do so with the caveats I have previously stated and re-state below). I only addressed the issue of what Breitling could quite reasonably fit, with the prior agreement of the customer, because you and sonyman raised the issue! I myself merely expect them, as I have said, to provide full, genuine and complete information about the repairability of a watch (contrary to the partial truth they have in fact provided in this case). The OP was told that parts are not available and this is, quite simply, not the whole truth; it is misleading. The truth is that parts (albeit second hand) most certainly are available.
Again, this is a separate issue that you have raised. However, I'll play along with you and address it. There is no such thing in reality as a "liability exposure" in using second hand parts for repairs as long as the customer is informed of the need to use second hand parts (rather more commonly known as "reconditioned" parts) and has agreed to their use. However, whether or not Breitling would actually use reconditioned (i.e. second hand) parts is not something I originally commented on -- as I have said, that is an issue that you and sonyman raised, not me. I have only addressed it at all and I am only continuing to address it here because you are continuing to raise it.
My original comment in this thread (to get back to the specific subject I originally commented on) was about the misleading information provided to the OP by Breitling. You say that what I said on the subject is "All true - but so theoretical as to border on pedantry" and I am pleased you agree it is true but there is nothing "theoretical" or pedantic about being provided with what is in effect misleading information. That would greatly concern me were I on the receiving end of it, as was the OP. Not a "theoretical" concern, but a real concern. Not "pedantry" but real world, costing-money, concern.
Beyond this, it's clear to me that we will just have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by markrlondon; 31st August 2013 at 02:30. Reason: Fixed typos
Crikey! That must've hurt. Are you still a fan and would you buy another?
Thanks for "playing along" with me. I agree that academically speaking, Breitling is wrong in saying that "no parts exist". Used or NOS parts do exist, as it turns out, although Breitling UK may have no knowledge of this. Feel free to write to them to tell them that they are technically in the wrong, in that you know where a source of NOS Seiko movements can be found, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a response.
If I was running the place, I'd advise Pluton/Jupiter owners that this model was from a bad time in Breitling's history and it took them 18 years to sell everything they'd made. The movement is NLA from the manufacturer, and I'd tell customers to go off and find it if they want but Breitling UK isn't ever going to fit anyone else's used or NOS parts. They're just not and I wouldn't stay up at night wondering why not, just use an independent repairer instead. For one thing, there are too many greedy/stupid consumers out ready and willing to sue them if something goes wrong.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
The thing is, the point I originally made, is that it is not merely "academically" wrong. It is in fact dead wrong, factually wrong here in the practical, actual real world and is thus misleading.
I suggest you read the OP's post again, would have saved you your rather long subsequent posts. ;-)
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I'm reminded of the time I took my Audi Ur quattro to Peterborough Audi to enquire about purchasing a new wing, as it was rusty. Coincidentally, the car was also about 18 years old, so similar age to the watch in question in the OP.
Imagine my surprise when they told me that new parts were no longer available, and in fact then misled me further by not telling me there were lots of wings available in various scrapyards all around the world that they could buy in for me and then fit! Outrageous!
To further compound things, they then refused to offer me a generous discount on similar new vehicles from the Audi range...
I can see now I should have been bloody furious!
In all seriousness, we don't know exactly what the OP was told by Breitling other than 'they had no stock of these obsolete movements', presumably true otherwise they'd have fixed it. So, saying Breitling were misleading him is just not provable with the information we have. It appears to me the idea that they wouldn't tell him that used parts were available was introduced by other posters...
Also, good luck getting any 15+ year old electronic item fixed with new parts. I know there are a few exceptions, STS have some stock to keep old electronic Omega's going for instance, but eventually they will dry up too.
Breitlings solution and offer around these watches seems reasonable in the circumstances, especially given any warranties have long since expired.
^^^ This.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
In all seriousness, the OP explicitly said that he "was very disappointed when told the parts were no longer available". That seems pretty explicit, clear, and unambiguous. See http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...=1#post2818566. And it is to that message specifically (within the context of the entire thread at that time) that I initially responded at http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...=1#post2818594.
Let's be clear now: I've read the original message. I've read the thread. I posted the message I did. It seemed reasonable and appropriate to me then, based upon the comments of the OP. It still seems reasonable and appropriate to me, based upon the comments of the OP. It is important to read more than just the original message and to read all comments.
Saying that Breitling were misleading him (albeit without malicious intent) appears to me to be a reasonable, appropriate and justified comment based upon the information provided by the OP, as above.
Not saying that used parts are available and saying, as the OP said they did, that "the parts were no longer available" is the misleading act to which I have referred.
There has been no suggestion that I am aware of that new parts should be used, unless stock happened to have been kept.
More to the point, I read all the OP's posts in the thread before I commented.
The worst back door sales post I've ever seen!
Steady on old chap, nobody's suggesting he's into that.
PMSL ;)
Well now, some interesting comments here; some helpful:
- Thattallchap: you're an awful cynic, but if I were, would it have been so bad? Others ask for values and anyway, I'm a hundred posts short of posting on SC.
- Tooks: I see your reasoning but not all that applicable as another post that's running presently regarding cars/watches indicates.
I started this topic with a quite low opinion of Breitling, firstly being sold a Miyota/Seiko with a Breitling sticker on it and then the lack of parts for a relatively recent watch. However, since I sent the watch to Breitling they've been nothing but brilliant: good discount offered on an Aerospace and now I've decided to have my old watch back, a new battery and no charge. Plus the people at Breitling UK have been polite, informative and prompt. So I'm happy now! I reckon I might even have sourced a replacement movement too!
Happy days – just bear in mind that Miyota is Citizen owned, but if Breitling were buying from both companies at the same time or made no changes when they switched supplier, then you should have no concerns.
I happen to know someone on this very forum with a working movement for that watch
pm me for details.
PM sent, ta
And replied
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