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Thread: Banned from Driving

  1. #1
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    Banned from Driving

    3 times when I was a lot lot younger and even more foolish. God knows why I didnt learn after the first time. It was hell catching buses way back then.

    Stuart

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by cinnabull View Post
    3 times when I was a lot lot younger and even more foolish. God knows why I didnt learn after the first time. It was hell catching buses way back then.

    Stuart
    Banned for what (now and then)?

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Banned for what (now and then)?

    R
    Totting up offences. Speeding and undue care. Thoroughly deserved looking back.

    Stuart

  4. #4
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    I take it you have learnt your lesson now then?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by glyn696486 View Post
    I take it you have learnt your lesson now then?


    Ha Ha, Glynn,

    Yes its seems so long ago now, over 30 years back. Looking back you thought you were invincible then, driving round like a person possesed. Lesson thoroughly learned mate. Cant think why it took 3 bans for it to sink in though LOL.

    Stuart

  6. #6
    Craftsman Diesel76's Avatar
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    Hi cinnabull, you state you were done for undue care in your previous thread......and then mention it was deserved looking back. I can see why you got done! It is advantageous to be looking in the direction your travelling! lol. Sorry I couldn't resist.

    Kind regards

    Chris.

  7. #7
    Journeyman Declan's Avatar
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    At least you realise it was daft, still young myself but have 3 pts already. Driving very carefully for a while now!

  8. #8
    Journeyman cdmed's Avatar
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    my grandfather was banned a while ago, in his late 60s & driving under the influence ! recently been diagnosed with cancer & also reapplied for his license, he's definitely learned his lesson

    only 20 but i'm far too laid back to drive recklessly

  9. #9
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    At least you realise it was daft, still young myself but have 3 pts already. Driving very carefully for a while now!
    Why only for a while. ;-)

  10. #10
    Master Artistmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K300 View Post
    Why only for a while. ;-)
    The term is " some just never learn "

  11. #11
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    I have been incredibly lucky. The number of times I have driven way too fast/irresponsibly/carelessly is unbelievable, yet I still have a clean licence. I am a much more careful driver these days but in hindsight I understand how lucky I have been. Most men think they are brilliant drivers - I'm not, but at least I am a sober driver.

    However one thing that concerns me is the way that I simply can't remember parts of my journey.... for example last night on my 19 mile commute home I simply can't remember one 4 mile chunk of the journey... I can recall turning into the road, and I can recall approaching the roundabout at the end of it 4 miles later but I'm jiggered if I can remember the 6 to 8 minutes that journey normally takes me. And it's not the only time this has happened. I must be going onto "autopilot" when I get onto familiar roads. Worrying, really....

    Rob

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    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryboy View Post
    I have been incredibly lucky. The number of times I have driven way too fast/irresponsibly/carelessly is unbelievable, yet I still have a clean licence. I am a much more careful driver these days but in hindsight I understand how lucky I have been. Most men think they are brilliant drivers - I'm not, but at least I am a sober driver.

    However one thing that concerns me is the way that I simply can't remember parts of my journey.... for example last night on my 19 mile commute home I simply can't remember one 4 mile chunk of the journey... I can recall turning into the road, and I can recall approaching the roundabout at the end of it 4 miles later but I'm jiggered if I can remember the 6 to 8 minutes that journey normally takes me. And it's not the only time this has happened. I must be going onto "autopilot" when I get onto familiar roads. Worrying, really....

    Rob
    That doesn't mean you weren't concentrating.

    What happens is that your brain knows this is a very routine operation, and thus throws the memory away afterward. Nothing happened, there were no problems and thus nothing knew to learn.

    Think of it like cleaning up your desktop.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  13. #13
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    That doesn't mean you weren't concentrating.

    What happens is that your brain knows this is a very routine operation, and thus throws the memory away afterward. Nothing happened, there were no problems and thus nothing knew to learn.
    I wonder if anyone has done an experiment with a camera watching the driver to see if their actions and reactions really were normal during the forgotten period of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    What happens is that your brain knows this is a very routine operation, and thus throws the memory away afterward. Nothing happened, there were no problems and thus nothing knew to learn.
    I'd never thought of the blank-miles that way; it happens when driving, commuting on the train, even when walking. I had always put it down to advancing years or alcohol (not the driving).

  15. #15
    Master Harry Tuttle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I wonder if anyone has done an experiment with a camera watching the driver to see if their actions and reactions really were normal during the forgotten period of time.
    I think the driver's actions and reactions would be normal. I would argue that the brain has finite resources, particularly at the working level and when an operator is engaged on a highly complex repeatable task it is cognitively important that the task is in some way habituated so that the operator only responds to novel or dangerous stimuli not all stimuli. If all triggers and cues during the drive were novel then it would likely be the case that the driver would remember the drive largely because they had become flooded with stimuli and overloaded with information. This overload may well have led to some kind of incident making the drive even more memorable - but for the wrong reasons. I think that a journey where the driver needed to be mindfully active throughout would be similar to the unpleasant feeling of partial control we experience with new, complex and or difficult tasks such as driving through a new city during busy traffic periods.

    For most people, semi-automated behavioural states are how we navigate the majority of tasks and activities we encounter and is a desirable way of operating. As we get more experienced we tend to use that experience to reduce the cognitive workload imposed by carrying out an activity by habit. That is what training and rehearsal are for, to build a significant memory component into task performance in order to maintain sufficient operator capacity to be able to deal with atypical or difficult situations and tasks. The more complex the task, the longer the training required to produce this habitual type of behaviour. It is why pilots, air traffic controllers and astronauts take so long to train and are subject to much refreshment training to maintain required levels of performance. Driving a car is a complex task of this type and takes a long time for the average person to master. It is also why it is desirable that controls and interfaces are consistent, and information easy to process and it is why inconsistency in the placement of controls and provision of equipment is so dangerous.

    Of course this type of automatic task performance has its drawbacks. For instance although I might set out on my return journey home from work to avoid the road works I was stuck in on my normal route into work in the morning, the chances are that once the automatic aspect of task performance takes over I'm more likely to forget and only remember when I'm stuck in the tail back fuming that I didn't remember to take another route home. That is why we design alarms and other types of alerting systems into semi-automated tasks and procedures when non-typical task performance is required. In a safety critical task environment where there is a need for operators to perform outside regulated procedures or use novel equipment it might be necessary to provide additional equipment or alerts, or new procedures and training in order to break into habituated task performance and maintain safety levels. But that of course is another story...

  16. #16
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Tuttle View Post
    I would argue that the brain has finite resources, particularly at the working level and when an operator is engaged on a highly complex repeatable task it is cognitively important that the task is in some way habituated so that the operator only responds to novel or dangerous stimuli not all stimuli.
    [...]
    But that of course is another story...
    Nicely observed. Do you work in this field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Tuttle View Post
    I think the driver's actions and reactions would be normal.
    Indeed, this is what the theory would expect but it would be nice to see the empirical proof. ;-)

    The above also begs the question of why the "oh my god I don't remember any of that, did I even stop at the red lights?" sensation is as rare as it is. Logically it should be provoked if something unusual occurs that requires conscious awareness and processing of the moment but that doesn't always seem to be the case.

  17. #17
    Master Harry Tuttle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Nicely observed. Do you work in this field?

    Thanks for that. I've worked in Human Factors for the past 24 years so I hope that a little of the theory and practice has rubbed off.

    Indeed, this is what the theory would expect but it would be nice to see the empirical proof. ;-)

    The above also begs the question of why the "oh my god I don't remember any of that, did I even stop at the red lights?" sensation is as rare as it is. Logically it should be provoked if something unusual occurs that requires conscious awareness and processing of the moment but that doesn't always seem to be the case.
    I guess it depends upon the situation and context of the task. Good alerts and alarms should be specifically designed to draw attention to and allow an operator to discriminate between specific, urgent and important information, tasks and activities. There isn't really enough space here to be anything other than general but in terms of design and implementation, there are many different types of alerts and alarms appropriate to different types of activities. Driving is just one instance of a safety critical task and has a set of alerts (such as traffic lights) that have been designed for drivers and have become generally accepted by them. Other examples exist. For example, due to the speeds involved in aviation it is important to alert controllers and pilots to an urgent task in a manner that allows them to identify the cause of the problem and apply an appropriate response quickly and accurately. In the oil and gas industry (much to my initial surprise) an alert can exist in a control system for a matter of minutes, hours or even days. In fact alarm management is a hot topic in the oil and gas industry at the moment. The issue for the Human Factors practitioner is to assess and evaluate the task, find an appropriate response and influence the design of equipment, procedure and/or training to ensure that the human provides an appropriate response under all contexts.

    With regard to your observation, not being actively conscious of a red light is not necessarily a problem if the driver observes the alert and acts accordingly. The important thing in designing alerts is that they are consistent and that they are appropriate in their ability to be discriminated from other types of stimuli. Problems with alerts are more likely to happen when they are intrusive, inconsistent or inappropriate. For example (arguably) the most distracting stimulus for human perception is flashing. The quicker the frequency of flashing the more distracting it is. I'd argue that an alert of this type is therefore only appropriate when you want the operator (the driver in this case) to pay exclusive attention to the signal. That's why flashing tends to be used in advertising because it automatically attracts attention to the commercial message or brand icon. The problem for the observer is when they are faced with multiple flashing stimuli. At that point they either face overload and/or divided attention or they have to actively expend cognitive effort to ignore the stimulus. That's why badly designed alerts and alarms are dangerous in that they don't encourage the right type of response and may in the worst case make situations worse. With regard to driving, a good example of this are the flashing signs that seem to have spring up on every high street that tell you that you are within the speed limit. The flashing is designed to distract the driver so that they pay attention to the flashed information as a priority. The driver is therefore being distracted from their primary and higher priority task (i.e. driving), and even if this is only momentary, their response to a simultaneous hazard may be too slow or inappropriate as a result. This would seem to me to be a very hazardous way of enforcing road safety. If traffic lights operated in a similar fashion the distraction may result in inappropriate behaviour in and around road junctions - i.e. the driver is too busy looking at the light to notice the child that walks out in front of them.

    The other typical human response to an inappropriate alert is to actively ignore it. This creates two problems. Firstly, the cognitive effort required to block out the distracting stimulus would be better used for other purposes and reduces operator capacity to be able to deal with other simultaneous information processing and tasks. In plain language the operator is a greater risk of overload. The second problem is that if the alert style or format is shared with other more genuine urgent or important priority alerts then the user may actively ignore an alert they should be paying attention to. This is probably the case with traffic lights - they should be distracting enough to encourage an appropriate response but not so distracting that they demand a greater share of the operators cognitive resources that could be better deployed in watching the road, pedestrians, cyclists and other drivers around them. As far as the driver is concerned, they tend to be generally aware of the red light at a sufficient level of attention to conform to the alarm but probably not at a level where it is either not replaced by other priority information or task. Remember driving is a dynamic, complex and quickly changing task so it would reduce a drivers capacity if they were constantly required to remember all the red lights they passed through on a typical journey. I guess the bottom line is that it's all about the preservation and use of precious and finite cognitive resources.

    There's quite a lot of research, especially in the military, concerned with attention, cognition and perception. I've worked in ATC but there is a lot of effort put into the design of military and civil aircraft cockpits as well as other systems (boats, weapons etc.). It would probably be a bit boring to go into it here but you'll get a flavour for human factors if you look at the wikipedia page. I know that there is at least one other human factors practitioner that frequents the forum so I'll rely on him to correct any lapses and mistakes I've written above and maybe even add an example of his own if he's so inclined.

  18. #18
    Master ach5's Avatar
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    [smugmode] never had a single point since I passed my test aged 17 [/smugmode]

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    [smugmode] never had a single point since I passed my test aged 17 [/smugmode]
    I'll join that club, and touch wood stay in it.

    I have however been fined for driving in a bus lane. Once.
    "Bite my shiny metal ass."
    - Bender Bending Rodríguez

  20. #20
    Craftsman waynertron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    [smugmode] never had a single point since I passed my test aged 17 [/smugmode]
    I've never had a point either.

    I have however been banned from driving* (21 days, SP30, 109, dual carriageway). Not so smug mode.

    *Many years and 3 cars ago.

  21. #21
    Master Bernard's Avatar
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    I've been driving for quite some years now.
    I tend to drive too fast (that is: faster than allowed), however:
    I hardly get fined, I never got into an accident (other than being hit while sitting in my parked car!) and I consider myself a safe driver.

    You won't see me speeding near a school or so, but on the highway and the nice roads with good visibility I really like to hit the gas.

    My record so far (as a driver) is hitting the limiter on a Jaguar XK8 on a certain Dutch highway (and being a passenger on a car doing 290 km/h on the German autobahn).

    I have had some training through Jaguar at the Autotron-facility and did race karts (3 hr races), which makes it easier - to my opinion - to make a decision about how hard to drive where and under which conditions. More drivers should take courses!

    I have driven my Jaguar for approx 60.000 km in the last 7 years (100% me driving). My Hyundai Santa Fe has been driven for 240.000 km in 6 years (50/50 with my wife). So some 180.000 (plus some 20.000 with a Golf convertible) in 7 years, about 30.000 km/year average. Before this period I even drove more per year due to sports.

    I did get one driving ban, from the doctor, after arm surgery, which made it impossible for me to steer...

  22. #22
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    My record so far (as a driver) is hitting the limiter on a Jaguar XK8 on a certain Dutch highway
    Is it true that in the Netherlands they can confiscate your car for driving significantly in excess of the posted speed limit? If so, does that act as a deterrent?

    In the UK, very high speeds (probably 170+ mph) can lead to a jail sentence, and anything over 100 mph will lead to a driving ban unless there are mitigating circumstances (e.g., it will lead to loss of job), but we don't take people's cars away.

    This is what they do in California for "street racing":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=OFEtciCveUw

  23. #23
    I reckon that beast could eat about three corsa/lupo/rover200's in one go. Should be standard issue in every Tesco car park.
    "Bite my shiny metal ass."
    - Bender Bending Rodríguez

  24. #24
    Master Bernard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    Is it true that in the Netherlands they can confiscate your car for driving significantly in excess of the posted speed limit? If so, does that act as a deterrent?

    In the UK, very high speeds (probably 170+ mph) can lead to a jail sentence, and anything over 100 mph will lead to a driving ban unless there are mitigating circumstances (e.g., it will lead to loss of job), but we don't take people's cars away.

    This is what they do in California for "street racing":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OFEtciCveUw
    Only if it is your car! The XK is registered to the firm (and with a reason) ;-)

    I usually fight every fine I get in court (am a lawyer/barrister) and can assure you that many things go wrong (or good for me, it all depends on your point of view)!

    In all honesty, I don't think 100 mph is extremely fast. Over here usually only driving 50 km and more over the limit can lead to your license being confiscated. The highway speed usually is 130 km/h.

    Only repeated high speed offenses or an extreme speed will endanger your license.

    We only have a point system for young drivers, or drivers with limited experience.
    After that, you're pretty safe.

    However, fines are quite high, certainly compared to the German fines.

  25. #25
    Master studly's Avatar
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    Must be fun remembering when you were a faggot op.

  26. #26
    Master ach5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studly View Post
    Must be fun remembering when you were a faggot op.
    ??? WHere did that come from?!

  27. #27
    Master studly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    ??? WHere did that come from?!
    From the same place where reminiscing that being banned from driving three times is cool. " I were a right tearaway me lad, got banned for driving like an idiot three times!".

  28. #28
    Master ach5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studly View Post
    From the same place where reminiscing that being banned from driving three times is cool. " I were a right tearaway me lad, got banned for driving like an idiot three times!".
    The strong homophobia just comes accross a bit, well, strong...

  29. #29
    Master studly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    The strong homophobia just comes accross a bit, well, strong...
    Strong post about homophobia you say. Tis the year 2013 phaggot, words change meaning over time and can be interpreted however you feel. Forgive me if i rustled your jimmies with my use of language.
    Last edited by studly; 19th December 2013 at 18:28.

  30. #30
    Luckily the word cunt retains its ancestral meaning.
    "Bite my shiny metal ass."
    - Bender Bending Rodríguez

  31. #31
    Master studly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stooo View Post
    Luckily the word cunt retains its ancestral meaning.
    Join Date Oct 2010
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    5,713

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    [COLOR=#000080]Is it true that in the Netherlands they can confiscate your car for driving significantly in excess of the posted speed limit? If so, does that act as a deterrent?
    Yes. When you exceed the limit by 100%. And probably no. The chances of being stopped are pretty slim. 90% of the fines are because of camera speed traps.

    Edit: and I just realised I kicked up a pretty old thread ... sorry!
    Last edited by johant; 3rd February 2018 at 07:43.

  33. #33
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    Luckily down to 3 points now which will be spent this year.

    Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

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