Just spotted this over on another forum, dropped from waist high!
Just spotted this over on another forum, dropped from waist high!
RIAC
I wouldn't like the repair bill!
nothing a bit of polywatch wouldnt sort out
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Ceramic cases may be much cheaper to produce... but they sure as heck are not going to be able to withstand a drop or a knock. I do hope the industry does not move away from metals.
Wait. Ceramic is cheaper to produce? So why do ceramic dialed watches command such high premiums?
Ceramic is known to be hard and therefore it will be brittle. From the Panerai stable anyway, it makes their composite models all the more attractive.
Sympathy for the owner of that one though, a very big ouch.
Ceramic cases will be predominately china clay based... That costs about £6 for a 20 kilo bag at retail. Eddie would know better than myself but how much do you expect 20 kilos of stainless steel to cost... Im guessing a lot more than a fiver with change. I suspect the high price is due to it being 'the new thing'. So my statement is basically based on cost of raw materials. They will have added a few binding ingredients and probably some fine fibre to more readily smooth things out and to add a bit of strength... But its not beyond something that any secondary school tech class couldn't handle....if they had a big press to compress the clay.Originally Posted by chicaneuk
Last edited by canuck; 24th May 2013 at 17:32.
You'd like to think they were covered on their owners household insurance. I know mine are, makes a lot of sense really when accidents like this are just waiting to happen.
Stuart
The raw material costs have only a tiny impact on the manufactured costs, which have only the tiniest impact on the retail prices.
--Edit--
At current commodity prices, 20 kg of 316 stainless would cost you less than $50.
Last edited by seffrican; 24th May 2013 at 17:49. Reason: Added info
You did read my bit on how ceramic cases aren't actually made from clay, right?
Regards,
Adam
Ceramic's one of the "buzz words" of the moment, and people who buy expensive watches generally love a good buzz word!
And raw material costs, whether higher or lower, are irrelevant to the price charged by the watch houses.
Luxury watches are not in any way priced with any kind of good value for money in mind - their manufacturers leave it to the more gullible of us to convince ourselves of that!
The rest of us just bend over and take our medicine - that's the hobby!
Wow I had no idea ceramic could just shatter from what sounds like not a high fall! Definitely a SS guy!
Ouch is all I can say for the poor watch and wallet likewise. Ceramic looks really nice however I'll stick with ceramic inserts for now.
Because they can. ;)
I agree. The correct movement would be towards increasingly better case hardening methods. Unfortunately, it seems that only the niche brands care about this sort of thing. Though, I guess, Omega is somewhat on board with their grade 5 Ti on the newer blue Liquid Metal POs.
It seems as if the better manufactures saw all the ugly low end PVD watches and said, "hey lets make a watch just as ugly, 10 times more expensive, and way less durable". Sign me up guys!
I quite like it. It's what I would call proper WABI.
Seriously though, what a horrible thing to happen. The owner must be gutted beyond imagination.
Lol!I quite like it. It's what I would call proper WABI.
Seriously though, what a horrible thing to happen. The owner must be gutted beyond imagination.
Comiserations to the owner, I must admit I was always a little worried about something like this when I had the DSSD.
One reason I would never buy a ceramic watch, the cost to replace the case will be horrendously expensive.
Ouch! Bad days.
Ceramic watches hold virtually zero interest for me. As far as I am concerned, it is not much different to a plastic watch. Same goes for carbon fibre efforts.
So clever my foot fell off.
Indeed. When the little ceramic bezel insert on a Sub costs around $1,000 to replace, can you imagine what a case would cost?
The repair estimate is $8,700.
Cheap indeed.
+1. This should be exactly the way to go.
The major Japanese brands have cottoned on, i.e. Seiko Dia-Shield and Citizen Duratect, plus Sinn with its tegimented models, Bremont and Damasko. If British, German and Japanese brands have hardened watch cases, why haven't the Swiss bothered? Let's hope that Omega's hard Ti is the start of better watch cases from the Swiss.
Looks like the material isn't really 'fit for purpose' - steel cases are stronger, and plastic g shocks don't fail like this.
ceramic watches will wear a hell of a lot better than steel apart from someone dropping them onto a hard surface, which isnt all that clever no matter what material your watch is made of
Very true the ceramic has shattered but steel would have got a nasty ding (maybe) but the steel would still be highly wearable whereas the Ceramic is somewhat written off! Im not a massive fan, I like them for what they are but dont think Id ever commit to buy and this adds weight to my thought process
RIAC
hmm...makes me think twice about a ceramic speedy aka dark side of the moon...
Saw this happen with a ceramic Hublot.
In fairness to Hublot, JC Biver saw the photo and replaced the case. Be a lot easier if it didn't happen though.
It seems like aesthetics over function - which is a bit weird for watches like the PAM and IWC which at least have their roots as so called 'tool' watches. Some of them do look good, but I couldn't have a watch that couldn't survive a knock against a bar counter.
John
My take on this issue is that for normal wear ceramics will hold up better than steel by being virtually sctratchproof , but that if you get careless then disaster beckons. I hate dings etc. on a watch and would have to replace anyway. A lot of the costs of watch part replacement seem have little to with actual component costs but are mostly a "luxury tax" based on the costs of the retail model.
Up until the start of the month I worked for a large engineering ceramics company specialising in technical ceramics. (Zirconia, alumina,silicon nitride etc)
We made many engineering components and also other bits and pieces.
I personally quoted parts for a few large watch and mobile phone manufactures but was always declined due to our prices being too high, they would rather pay cheap Chinese prices.
Zirconium oxide is an expensive raw material bought in from Japan or Australia, we were paying around £70 per kilo.
Each part starts off as powder which is isostatically pressed into a billet, this billet has to be much larger than the finished componant as when fired for up to a week the part will shrink up to 25% in each direction.
The part then has to be finished using diamond tooling and polishing wheels.
If designed and made properly the parts should not chip or shatter.
Many parts I have sold are used down hole in oil applications and are subjected to thousands of impacts under heat and pressure.
So in essence, IWC buy their cases from Guangdong...? wouldnt surprise me one bit. Always been weary of IWC, bit of a crap brand tbh.
I doubt China had yet stolen the intellectual property required for this sort of thing when IWC released their first ceramic watch (the 3705 in 1994). There's no doubt that the cheap, flat looking, and unattractive case on that new Tudor comes from the country of "imported".
"China" is perfectly able to manufacture ceramic watch cases and parts, but I doubt that Tudor import their ceramic cases from there.
Think i'll stick to Steel and Titanium.
I'd much rather have a few scratches and dings than a broken watch case.
Same here, I love the new speedy but price and this thread put me off
And this is based on?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Yeah, care to explain how you came to that conclusion?
As for your "crap brand" comment, well, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I 'spose.
Regards,
Adam
PS - Are you weary of IWC or wary of IWC? Both, maybe?
Ouch ceramic is expensive.
My Ploprof cost £900 for a new bezel after it shattered.
My Ocean 7 meteor ceramic cost £600 for the whole watch, if I smash it I'll just get a new one.
Last edited by Lammylee; 25th May 2013 at 00:16.
That's why watches should be made out of steel.
These are just the emperor's new clothes. Do PP use ceramic cases? It's only certain brands trying to create a new niche to generate a buzz.
Stick to the tried & tested metals & you can't go wrong. I remember reading about a Risti complaining that his watch changed colour because it absorbed the alchohol from his bloodstream through his skin!
I can only see the resale value of ceramic watches going one way, and it ain't north!
And this thread has crossed off buying any ceramic watches for me
No Ceramic case for me thanks!
Ouch!
It's def put me off ceramic lol
I'm sure ceramic is fine and tough enough for daily life in non-extreme conditions but still it always made me feel uneasy. Maybe I'm old fashioned or ignorant but steel is steel. I don't want a pottery watch.
The only ignorant aspect of your statement is making a comparison to pottery, since we've already throughly debunked that aspect of the ceramic myth.
Looks like we might still have a ways to go with the "if-I-so-much-as-look-at-it-funny-it'll-shatter" crowd, though, but hey, you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.
Regards,
Adam
744ER is a watch repairer so I think he's likely to have grounds for maligning IWC.
As for the ceramic watch dilemma, I wouldn't spend a lot on one. My missus has a couple of Armani ceramics, not my choice but she likes 'em.
Not sure how to refinish the bezel on the latest Seamaster Pro and Planet Ocean. I guess the bezel insert can be popped out, but it's a brave man who'll do this. On the old models, I take the insert out every time I refinish one and it's an easy task. Wouldn`t fancy cracking the latest type and having to stump up for a replacement!
Paul
Crickey....enough to put anyone off a ceramic for life
Interesting thread, I recently bought this NOS 1969 Omega Skywlker, no ceramic but a tungsten bombarded vickers 1200 steel case, when I got it it had a tiny chip bottom right edge and top left edge, both less than the size of a pin head but probably from when it was miss handled in the shop or knocked hence it never sold as new!
On my previous skywalker it rolled literally out of the watch box on to a vintage glass haberdashery cabinet and chipped the case at 6 oclock and a 2mm chunk chipped and fell off the tungsten! that wasnt a good day! the vickers (like ceramic) is extremely scratch resistant but very brittle like ceramic cases but on these is compounded because it is a coating
CheersTom
Last edited by dickstar1977; 1st March 2014 at 11:10.
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