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looks like fake cars to me!
on BBC one right now.
paul.
Here you go two stories very scary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...s_4_Episode_1/
Last edited by bandylegss; 29th April 2013 at 10:11.
looks like fake cars to me!
Stay with it .Originally Posted by thattallchap
Guy - you're an idiot.
Lol!!
Blimey, that's scary. I'm sure the fake Paneria would fool most regular buyers.
Did you see the rehaust on that Daytona - I'm sorry but if you know your stuff that Daytona stands out a mile!
The problem as we all know is these are going to get back in the system and jewellers like guy will be reselling them and I do hope our regular replica man gets one on his door step oh the irony.
paul.
Of course, but I'd bet most people buying one wouldn't know that, as they're probably not big watch collectors with specialist knowledge. The fakers will always have more trouble fooling the serious enthusiasts, but most Daytona customers probably aren't in that category...
The watch market is absolutely full of scams and fakes.
I've been 'window shopping' for a while, and posted a couple of WTB ads, and it's quite scary how big the criminal market is.
Be very careful. And, if you are a bona fide seller, you'll need to demonstrate beyond doubt the integrity of what you are selling.
So what are the best ways to avoid fakes? Obviously ADs are foolproof if you're buying new, but what about the pre-owned market? Is it possible that well-known dealers could be fooled?
I'm just getting started in the watch hobby and that BBC show has really worried me. I've been interested in watches for a few years now and have finally decided to get a serious piece, but can't say I'd know how to tell a good fake from the genuine article.
I'm thinking of getting maybe a Patek, Rolex or something else and I'm wondering who to trust now. I'm not buying brand new as the cost is prohibitive, so it's a potential minefield in the pre-owned sector.
Are the UK dealers on Chrono24 a good bet?
That Panerai fake is amazing, it would've completely fooled me. I'm thinking that the finishing of high-end fake watches would be matching those of many real watches (as many brands other than the very top have flaws in the finishing).
I don't know why people buy fakes, I'd rather just own a nice genuine Citizen, Seiko or Timex
Can't say that I've used anyone on Chrono24 other than watch finder but if you stick to companies like watch finder, blowers, watch club (bit pricey) etc, I wouldn't have said you can fall too foul as all have being doing preowned watches for a very long time.
I know it's said a million and one times on here but you do buy the seller. I bought my last watch from watchfinder because they chucked in 2 years warranty and I may have paid a couple of hundred £ more than if I got it from the bay but, the peace of mind that the watch has just been serviced/refurbished and can go back if anything goes wrong for probably the duration that I will have it is worth it imo.
Last edited by mj234; 29th April 2013 at 11:38. Reason: After thought
So, anyone still think buying a fake is 'just a bit of a laugh"?
"it does no harm, just sizing up before buying the real thing"?
"it's not organised crime etc. etc"?
Well it's not, it does and it is.
As above, the Daytona was IMO an easy spot. That Panerai however...
Well the supposed PAM 127 should be in the larger SE size box, warranty cards do not come in cellophane bags, and the incorrect box has a well known wrong font style plaque on the lid, so an easy spot for many, but i agree for the uninitiated they could be drawn in.
The simple fact is though some buyers are thinking they're going to score a bargain, caveat emptor always and buy the seller as we all know. I have some sympathy especially for any ringed car buyers but a high class watch for below the right sort of money?? Nope, no real sympathy from me.
Pretty much, yes. What you seem to have failed to do is to draw a distinction between buying a replica as such for personal use, and from selling one as the real thing, which is fraud.
As long as the latter activity is profitable, and clearly, sadly, it is - replica watches will be produced, and people will be ripped off. It matters not a jot how many people buy them for fun, or merely because they like them. I might remark that it's a victimless crime, except that it's not actually a crime at all. I'm not aware of a replica jeans community, or a replica fragrance community in which people knowingly buy 'fake' jeans or perfumes because they like them, but guess what - the counterfeiters still manage to come up with the product. It makes no difference at all.
Do you realise that photographs of genuine watches are regularly used to defraud people in eBay auctions and elsewhere, where no actual replica watch is involved at all? They just take your money, and that's it. Do you think that publishing photos of (eg) Rolexes, Panerais and Omegas on sites like this should be discontinued?
Would not buy a fake or replica watch ever.. the money ends up i unsavory hands.. as suggested would rather have a nice low/middle tier watch than know im wearing a crappy fake!
I've failed to draw a distinction between what and what?
I think not, buying a fake for ANY use, perpetuates the criminal 'industry'.
It matters not if the goods are sold 'as real' or openly sold as 'replicas', as it is the acts of production & selling of counterfeit goods that are illegal.
Possession with intent to sell / deceive is illegal in the UK, buying sadly is not.
Unlike France, where all four aspects of counterfeiting, production, sale, purchase, possession are illegal.
As to the 'replica' community, if genuine original trademark owner approved replicas or rights purchased replicas are your thing I have no problem with that.
Communities that celebrate knock-off fake goods, I don't get, and find it a little sad. Nothing that is "just as good as" is just as good as.
But in the watch community there are no such approved replica makers. So through definition there's no such thing as a replica, it's a fake, deal with it.
No I did not realise that photos of genuine watches are used to defraud people in eBay and elsewhere.
As obviously I am typing this out using a rock and slate whilst sitting in my cave.
Do I think that publishing watch photos on this forum or other similar sites should be discontinued?
Well no, also I don't really see the correlation between that question and the fake watches discussion
Last edited by rob-vicar; 29th April 2013 at 14:17.
Scary. Especially the fake "oooobloh"
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Just watched the video and that daytona just didn't look correct to me and I'm no Daytona expert. The Pam as said looked good but again the paperwork in cheap cellophane didn't seem correct. The guy who got the Daytona on eBay...he's a watch dealer but believed he could get a as Daytona for 4k...surely alarm bells should of rang
That's worrying, quite worrying. The PAM is scary.
I know it's only part of the story, but of course, as long as there's a market for fakes, this'll keep up. However, getting them in to dealers is a different matter altogether, that's quite scary.
if the fakers can make such good copies, why not start their own low/mid teir own brand and go legit?
Less of a market I'd think. They surely think that there's higher profit margins in a counterfeit Rolex than a new start up brand.
your probably right, all the marketing and brand aspiration is already in place!
Was Sgt Thomason wearing a Seamaster? If so, I hope it was genuine!
Well, it is Manchester. :p
A friend of mine had a replica Omega Planet Ocean from a well known site, amazing ...just amazing. Has all the correct markings even the 8 digit serial number on the case at the 7 baton. He has a genuine one aswell he used for social and entertaining, the rep is for work and comparing them side by side...nothing!
Not a fan of them to be honest but have been tempted.
Actually they do. Lots of fakers also develop their own brands. I met one at an Asian market a couple of years ago. He showed me his rubbish fakes and then proudly pulled out his own branded watches. But of course, the latter don't sell in the same quantities or at the same prices as the former...
isn't that how Parnis started? i used to own a Parnis Big Pilot that had an IWC fish on the crown,,,,,
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
That wouldn't be surprising actually. I do love their PAM homages. As said though, unless managing to quickly aim the product at the enthusiast market, there should always be a quicker sell for the masses of people seeming to want a fake, high end brand rather than a new start up enthusiast or homage brand.
Buy vintage - much more difficult to fake.
There's a lot of sense in that.
I tend to collect older watches because I like them, and because I agree with this notion.
The programme is frankly horrifying - the quality of the packaging and paperwork is what scares me most.
So clever my foot fell off.
My one question, scary as the program was, would I as a buyer go to that venue and buy a watch from that salesperson for half Retail.....and if I was stupid enough I would deserve what I got......I do understand that these watches can filter into the supply chain which is a concern though
If I way that Retail buyer I would have not appeared on the show because he just embarrassed himself
In relation to one of the posts above, I find the concept of owning a genuine watch 'for special occasions' and also owning a fake version of the same watch to wear every day just ridiculous. Isn't that like buying a Ferrari but keeping it in the garage and driving a kit car to work 'in case it gets scratched'?! - I just don't get the fake watch thing at all.....
It is ridiculous, and a nonsense in my opinion.
People that wear fake watches don't own the real thing.
I know one chap well who has numerous high-end fakes - he is quite open about it. He doesn't own a single genuine watch and I doubt ever will.
I don't get it either, but then I despise fake stuff full stop.
So clever my foot fell off.
Just buy from a 'proper' shop.
It's not rocket science FFS. Too many people trying to secure a bargain get stung. Tough titties you miser.
DING!
It's is very worrying. Must admit the Daytona was very poor but light years ahead of what the fakes were like 10 years ago. Dread to think how good they will be in another 10..
Today's programme featured fake wedding dresses. I can't help wondering what they expected when they select the style they want on a reputable website, costing £1000 plus and then send £80 to an eBay trader using pictures lifted from the reputable website.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Sorry to bump this, but I was just watching this on YouTube (I'm not in the UK).
I read something on the net a while back, where a dodgy salesperson in an AD (in the US) was swapping out the real stuff with these high end fakes, and flogging the real ones to make some money on the side.
They were only caught when someone spotted a difference (serial numbers not matching), told the AD owner and the owner went through their stock and found a good amount were not what they should have been.
When I'm looking, I do a bit of research to see what is out there fake wise of the model I'm looking for, so i know the differences.
Poppycock. I know many many people with heavy genuine collections and replica pieces as well. There's a few members of this board as well who mix and match.
Over the past two years I've had over 45 fakes in the collection, and worked at least that many again for other people. I will probably always dabble in them and keep my foot in the industry. Both as a hobby and also to keep on top of whats out there to be aware of before buying anything genuine. I have a general idea of what genuine watches I would like and also what replicas that are coming out soon that I would probably buy.
I currently own the Tudor Pelagos, a Helson Shark Diver and soon hopefully a Doxa 1200T. Ok so not the highest end of the watch spectrum like some on here but not shabby in respect to most folk.
Over 45 fakes in two years?
Nothing to be proud of, contributing to crime, or even committing crime if you're selling them on.
Well Done you
Its ok Rob he posted this on the "another fake rolex thread".
"Beautiful, it even comes with the hologram case back sticker that Rolex stopped putting on watches back in the late 2000's.
Reported."
paul.
Just as I thought then, he's a Tosser
I would argue that there is a massive difference between attempting to defraud someone by selling them a fake under the pretense that it is real. Or trading them with other people who collect fakes.
Do I want people to be ripped off? No.
The point is and we have been here before you and a few others on here are supporting crime its that simple somewhere along the line someone is going to get burnt.
paul.
Knowledge - the best way is to research massively what you're buying - firstly, is it a watch which is regularly faked? If it is, bear in mind that most resellers will ultimately source stock from a very small number of manufacturers, so they will probably have a small number of reliable "tells" - get to know what they are. Maybe visit an AD and handle the real thing. IME they feel different.
How do you learn the tells? Simple - join a replica forum, they tend to have great comparison threads and I've learnt a lot from them.
So, how do I avoid buying a baddun?
Firstly - discover - is it a watch which has been faked?
Secondly - learn - find the tell-tales, Google and rep forums
Thirdly - research - visit an AD, maybe use watch-owning friends, hold it and wear it, learn how it feels
Fourthly - study - when you have the watch of your dreams in your hands, study it closely:
What's the quality of the printing like on the dial?
Are the fonts correct - date dial and bezel are favourites, but don't discount the dial, the Omega 6 and 9 are famous give-aways
Is the bracelet the one you expect?
Google the serial number - lots of fakes have exactly the same serial number
Is the logo correct? Google "Omega happy feet" for a really obvious example
Is it a Rolex? If it is, it's a fake (OK, ignore this point)
Fifthly - never buy a watch you have doubts about. This applies doubly and triply online
Finally - buy the seller - if you have good feelings about everything else but the seller doesn't seem right, be cautious - will they let you take the watch to an expert to verify?
It's a minefield out there, I've bought fake watches without realising it, and that was with much research. Even with all the knowledge in the world, you can still get caught out, but with a little pre-work you can minimise the chances of being had.
The problem with that is that is that with everything you buy these days the money ends up in unsavoury hands - be it sweatshop owners in the third world or Chancellors in Downing Street...
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