Reply With QuoteI'm not sure it's a dim idea. More of a nice idea with risks.
Is it a bright idea?
1. Last year my sister, who owns a Renault Mégane, was taking out the kids from the car whilst leaving her keys in her bag on the passenger seat, when the car locked itself, keys still in the car.
She was visiting me, so we rang Renault's support line and they suggested we use a spare, or break a window, whilst stating helpfully that if the key is within 10m the car won't lock (it did). Our only solution was for me to drive her home to collect a spare, fortunately she doesn't live that far away and that was possible.
2. Yesterday one of our directors drove his Range Rover to work without it's key. He started it at home with a key in his jacket pocket, to warm it up, then went back in the house and changed jackets, drove to work, parked up then tried to lock the car. Realising that he left the keys at home was unable to lock or drive the car until he returned home to get the key, which was difficult with a car that won't start.
I don't find having to insert a key into the dash that much of a hindrance, so why do we have keyless ignitions? Because it sounds like a dim idea to me.
I'm not sure it's a dim idea. More of a nice idea with risks.
Never had a problem with it to be honest. The cars I have/had weren't able to lock with the keys inside it, and did try it a couple of times to test it at home. :)
Not done the changing coat trick though, thats just something that the manufacturers couldn't really do much about.
I happen to like it, once you're used to it its fine, and the fumbling around for a key then starts to become a pain.
Malc
my Lexus will only start if it senses the tag, if you get out of the car with the tag whilst it is running the car starts beeping, if you keep walking it turns itself off.
on cold mornings it means you have to leave the tag in the car (i dont make a habit of this) sounds like Renault have been cutting corners.
Liz had a keyless Nissan Micra. The car gave a warning noise if you left the key inside and the doors wouldn't lock.
0 to 60 in 10 minutes was crap though!
Rod
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Last edited by Rod; 14th February 2013 at 14:42.
Solution looking for a problem. There was nothing - nothing - wrong with an old-fashioned key and a simple lock-out system that prevented you locking the keys in the car unless you went Full Retard, and tried deliberately.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Or is it a gimmick for bone idle wannabes
Our Landcruiser has keyless entry and start and as well as other things on this car, it is totally useless.
It has locked the keys inside itself before which is totally ludicrous especially when trying to break into the car you can turn the ignition on without it opening the doors!
Keyless systems are a waste of time and money, they never make sense and as mentioned in the OP - I have seen it many times where people start their cars and then drive off without the keys.
Avoid at all costs. - Lancruisers as well for that matter, awful cars.
Chris
This ^^^Originally Posted by adrianw
I think it's really useful:
The ability to open a car door whilst carrying a toddler (ready to put in his car seat) or armfuls of shopping without having to fish for keys or a remote - priceless.
The knowledge that if I lock the fob in the car I can unlock it simply by touching the rear of the handle (as the fob is inside the proximity range for opening).
The fact that (on my Lexus at least) the only handle that will unlock the car is the one I'm standing next to (a decent security feature).
Not bashing my knee on a jangling set of keys hanging from the ignition (I used to hate that!).
Plus - I quite like pressing a button to start the engine - silly I know but it amuses me.
Cheers,
Bearing in mind that if you leave you car running whilst you nip back inside and it's nicked, you won't be insured...
but lots of people do it, not sure they would tell the insurance company or anyone else if it went wrong.
Pointless gimmick IMO - would have merit if it was a true hands-free system i.e. if the door physically swung open as you approached and the car auto started.
Also, you know exactly where the key is when you come to leave the car. My BMW has the stupid keyless ignition and I invariably spend time trying to find the key, is it in my pocket, am I sitting on it, is the Missus sitting on it etc etc etc. I like it when it is nice and tidy, in the fluffin ignition lock, and then there is that push button to start the thing, how good a plan is that ???
You're not the only one, me too
Malc
Imo just about all electric gadgets are a bad idea as the add complication, weight, consume electricity = fuel.
In the case of the keyless entry/ignition there is no added security, just extra complication and more risc of failure.
What to do when the battery goes flat?
The push button start you can have anyway and anywhere. Even under a flip up cover in the gear shift knob; nobody uses the passenger ejector function so no loss there.
I've got shut of three wife's with that function!!!
The key is in my pocket and stays there.
Doors unlock as soon a you touch them and they lock again with a tap on the door handle as you walk away (or you can use the remote button as you would do normally) the door will not lock if I tap the door handle with the keys still inside the car.
One really handy thing is that you can start the car, get out of it with the key still in your pocket lock it and go back the house, so it defrosts while you have a coffee and a slice of toast :)
It's a Renault - nuff said.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
EXACTLY!!
And if I wave my foot under the bumper with my hands full, the boot opens.
^^^^^^^
I'm beginning to be converted to the idea.
Plus if you repeatedly hammer on the engine start button apparently it stops the engine so no 'unleash the honk' requiredwell BMW anyway.
I test drove a new 5 series for a week recently. When the chap came to collect the car, I started and drove it out of work's car park. We then started talking about watches as he was wearing a Panerai gmt. After ages of nice watch chat he drove off. 15 mins later I called his mobile to ask if he was still driving, which he was, although I still had the key in my pocket! Keyless start is stupid.
I would imagine he had a second key in his pocket.
Our X5 goes mad and beeps etc. if you get more than 25 metres away.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Yes, a stupid idea made worse by dangerous and poorly thought through implementation.
I miss my keyless entry is220d like mad. I drive a Passat now and the amount of times I forget when approaching the car and have to rummage through my pockets for my keys.
I have keyless entry on the Jag and it is slightly useful. Enough that I am flummoxed when I try to use the wife's car and the door doesn't just open.
If I try and lock the car with the key inside, it beeps and refuses to lock. I have to do this several times before I work out that the key is in the car.
I think the new system of Ford's, and perhaps others, of waggling foot under bumper to power open the boot is much more useful.
My wife's car, which uses traditional keyed entry, but with a remote control fob, decides that if you haven't opened the drivers door within 15 seconds (but have opened sliding rear doors and dumped all your stuff, including car keys inside) of operating the key fob, then it will automatically lock all the doors again.
No he didn't! He seemed genuinely amazed when I rang him. (The chap was serious about his watches, having several Panerai and a Daytona. I told him to join TZ!)
He needs to get his car back to the dealer asap as it sounds like a pretty major fault for the car to still function in the absence of the key.
The keyless card (on a Renault) has a key built in...so you can pull that out to get in.
I have serious reservations about the whole 'keyless entry/start' thing. My Jag needs the key to be close to the car (I think it's 1 metre) to start and run properly, but it will keep running if you walk away with the key in your pocket! However, mine needs the button pressing on the key to open the door so you have to 'interact' with it manually.......which suits me.
I found it hard to get used to; not having to insert the key was counter-intuitive to a man who's owned cars since 1975. My routine is to put the keys in the door pocket when I get in and take them with me when I leave the car. I`ve got into the habit so it's fine.
I really don`t like the idea of keeping the key in my pocket and the car locking/unlocking automatically......just seems wrong to me. I think it's aimed at women who can keep the keys in their handbag.
The story about the Range Rover and the guy changing jackets made me smile. I`ve been known to start my car on the driveway and leave it running to warm up/defrost whilst I scoot back in the house......with the keys, of course!
Paul
Our two cars have a form of ´intelligent´ door lock management too, but it was too clever for oúr good so I took the fuse out. Back to manually opening/closing each lock as wé want it. We prefer living without centrally operated door locks over having our behaviour managed by a cár.
it was a brand new 520d touring, with less than 2k on the clock. Don't think it was faulty, I fear that's how new bmws are now. (It was a main dealer demo car.)
Last edited by Kirk280; 15th February 2013 at 17:31.
Just about all post inmobilers cars have this same thing.
As long as the electrics are not switched off (you can switch off the car and restart as long as you don´t turn to ´off´) it will keep working when the system is not rechecking the presence of the coded sender.
It is just that with the key, the chip communicating with the inmobiliser is integrated in the key holder.
Because of the ´intelligent´ lock management the previous owner of the family wagon had two spare keys made. Just the key bit, no coded id chip, and had it on the chassis under the door with a magnet. He could thus let himself in when locked out.
As long as the coded key is in close proximity of the steering column you can start the car with that uncoded key. Once started the coded key can be left at home as long as you don´t switch it all off.
On the mud plugger/farm car I have replaced the inmobiliser solenoid on the fuel pump with a simple banyo bolt as it was prone to cut out when deep wading. The whole inmobiliser electronics is thus now all redundant.
I think it's brilliant! Haven't had any problems whatsoever with the system on my Toyota. I too thought it was pointless until I had it. Just like automatic windscreen wipers. However, whenever I drive a car now without these items I can't help feeling that I'm missing something!
Took my daughter swimming, in a Suzuki Swift 1.5 GL, came out of the baths 2 hours later and it was still idling away in the car park................
Swimming in a Suzuki Swift? Now that is impressive!
The Lexus smart entry and start is a very good system, and has a few fail safes, key not detected within range etc, i think other manufacturer's have achieved budget version's to enhance there cars.
As for the extra electrics using up fuel, my 4.3 carbon footprint eating, green bashing V8 purrs along at 1000 rpm at 30 mph in 5th and barely breaks sweat to push on, i rarely get her over 2500 rpm, but then i don;t loose much heat from the inside because it has double glazing thus helping the environment.
Lexus Rock
I believe it's for safety, rather than the engine simply cutting out on you.
Agree that a heads up that the key is no longer in range would be nice though...
Think about it for a moment; what is the one and only function of a key?
Imo modern gadgetry is more about creating marketing points than about functionality and has in many case lost conatct with that, even standing in it´s way.
Í want my car to have a ´key´so it only gives access to those that are supposed to. The centrally operated lock is a good example of how things go wrong.
It is often very handy that you can remote open locks but on the other hand it is a bit silly taht you ALWAYS lock ALL doors while 90% of time you ONLY need to unlock YOUR door.
Once there is a centarlly controlled access it grows all kinds of automatic locking features best for you like locking when reaching 35 mph. or after 15 secs. of not starting etc.
To make matters worse you neither get the option to switch it all off or to not pay for the crap.
The latter is the crux; you HAVE to páy and it is the job of marketing to sell the worth of the stuff.
The ´keyless´ thing is obvious not keyless, just changing the metal one for a card and adding some more ´best for you´ logic at higher cost.
Like carrying an extra load of see through sand is helping fuel economy. More weight is not the best idea safety wise either and worse of all it creates a higher centre of gravity. Way to go man!
All in all a good example of a marketable ´want´ treading over a couple of ´must´.
All you now ´need´ is a credit card telling you when/how you have access to your car.....
I think you have missed the sarcasm in the "double glazing" statement!
I think with most car gadgets, once you've had something, you really miss being without it. I think keyless is a great when properly implimented - as the Lexus system certainly is. As is auto headlights/wipers/dimming rear-view/foldable wingmirrors/seat memory etc - you don't need them , but they're nice.
BTW The only time my keyless system "malfunctioned" was when it kept beeping at me and not locking up properly, even by pressing the key-fob. Turned out I'd left the other keyfob in a my gym-bag in the boot - the car wouldn't let me lock the spare key in the car, no matter how hard I tried - great system!
Not to mention 1" high picture on the screen saying 'key not in car', I struggle to work out how people screw up really.
That might well be the case with an X5, but trust me, it isn't the case with the new 3- and 5- series! The driver was several miles away when I called him, he had no idea I still had the key.
Madness. It must be classed as a fault.
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Madness. It must be classed as a fault.
I don't agree with your points in this thread.
- To some, keyless entry is very useful. Examples would include... my wife and her bottomless bag which contains a whole world of unnecessary items making it exceptionally difficult to find the keys... or me coming to the car from the golf club with keys somewhere in one of the pockets of my golf bag... or a shopper carrying various grocery bags from the store.
- My car allows you to configure the settings such that the unlock button unlocks all doors or just the driver's.
- Keyless entry, at least on my car, was an extra so you pays your money and makes your choice. I bought my car pre-owned so didn't have to make that decision.
As tech advances, we will be presented with more options. To my gran, the concept of a CD player or even a new fangled iPod connection is unnecessary but for others incredibly important. No doubt in 20 years, our children will laugh at the concept of a key as everything will be programmed into the mobile phone or equivalent. Who knows.
What I know is that I like having the option of gizmos on cars... they're fun.
Used the remote keyless and door opening system in a clk mercedes with engine start button in gearknob for 6 years and it is faultless. How did i ever
manage? Seriously tho' it is very useful and quite satisfying in some silly way to press that button.
My wife loves it as she does not have to delve in the rucksack of an handbag she has to find the key .
Worked perfectly on my BMW Coupe I kept the key in my pocket and when I changed I moved the key. I could sit on the handle to lock the car which is useful if you have your hands full!
I could start it when it was covered in snow, lock it and go out 5 mins later to a nice warm car. If the battery goes flat you can use the keyhole in the boot area to open it.
I hope my next car has keyless ignition
Like others who favour their systems on this thread I'm a big fan of Audi implementation on S4.
Boot or doors open when I grab the handle with key in the pocket, sit in, press brake pedal and start button to start the car. If I just want turn ignition on dont press the brake pedal, just press the button and it will turn ignition on.
When I leave it running and leave the car with the key it will make noise inside and display message on the dash "key not in range".
to lock it you just touch any of 4 handles which takes roughly same amount of effort as pressing a key on the remote.
What I like about my system as well is that 2 keys we have work with memory seats and mirrors so when my wife opens the car with her key it moves the seat and adjusts mirrors, when I open it with mine it moves back again to preset position.
By all means it is not essential but is quite useful and nice to have in my view.
I have an F10, and it is there, driver would need to be blind
Where is the symbol, on the dash?
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