Reply With QuoteDon't! The SMG gearbox is absolute bollocks in the city, great if going nuts but otherwise kills the car.
Had one from new for three years till I gave up!
I've had a thread on here before about a new car and was looking at the Audi S4 (2006). I think i'll be getting something early next year. I've got a budget of around £17500 and it has to be a family car :o(. I've recently been looking at the BMW M5 (2005-7), I seem to be able to get one in my budget on around 60K. Does anyone have any experience of these, or perhaps alternatives? I know the 500bhp V10 is not exactly practical and the fuel economy will be horrendous, however, we live in London and do about 5k per year so not too worried about MPG. There is just something totally outrageous about the M5 which I feel a need to try. What's it like to live with day to day, kids, pushchairs etc etc? Have I totally lost the plot and should I really be considering a sensible diesel? Any advice welcome. Cheers.
Don't! The SMG gearbox is absolute bollocks in the city, great if going nuts but otherwise kills the car.
Had one from new for three years till I gave up!
Audi S6 for me if the budget doesn't stretch to RS6. Bit of a different beast than the M5, but that lambo v10 is pretty epic and a little more understated than the m5 perhaps?
How about the previous generation M5?
Still more power than you'll ever need (V8), a manual 'box, lots of toys and, IMHO, much, much nicer styling then the V10 version.
What about an e90 M3?
There's one on PH at the moment, £19k and 33k miles
Has to be a five door. I wouldn't rule out an M3 but the 5 door version seems pretty rare.Originally Posted by ed335d
The S6 might be worth a look, thanks.
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Hmmm interesting. So can the SMG box work in standard auto?
what about Bmw 550? or do they do a 535 petrol?
e90 is the 5 door - you're right, there's not too many around.
Linky:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifie...3-2008/1341988
Yes, but it's a pig! It's basically a robotised manual, not the current dual-clutch ones which are smooth. Problem is it shunts around and bangs about on part-throttle, as said, in race mode using the flappy paddles and giving it max gas it's superb, but you won't do that often in London!
For London we pondered long and hard about our car, maybe a full on Range Rover, or a Porsche Cayenne,
perhaps an M3 or S4, then realised we were being stupid beyond reason and bought a 7 year old Merc A class diesel LWB, London is a city with lots of traffic, lights and speed cameras, buy a city car + a toy for when you get the opportunity.
Last edited by number2; 17th July 2013 at 17:30.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Spend time on Pistonheads to read additional user experiences and opinions.
You'll also find a couple of members have experience of both the M5 and the 550i, and how they found them to be for their needs.
As for the SMG, I've not been aware of the juddery nature in the M5, but what GQ has described, is well documented on the E46 M3.
Bottom line, go drive one and see if it's as bad as GQ makes out or if you could live with it for the few times and low miles you reckon you'll be doing in it.
Regarding a diesel for 5K miles per annum - don't be so bloody daft!
If you want a town crawler that's frugal, then you really only have the Lexus GS450h, but the boot size might be a deal breaker, due to the battery bank behind the rear seat.
Very different car to the M5/550i, but no less capable if you get a clear strip of tarmac to stretch its legs.
vcar, hence the low price :-/
Ah, didn't spot that
I ad an E60 M5 for 12 months a few years ago, very quick car but goes through petrol like its going out of fashion!!
I bought it when Macy was first born, plenty of room for everything and at todays prices it seems a steal for practicality (size, not mpg) looks and speed. Watch for servicing, it can cost upwards of £1k to service one, and at your mileage point of 60k make sure the SMG oil has been changed and the discs and pads are good (discs and pads on the front alone are a grand).
Also to note, at 60k miles BMW won't sell you a comprehensive warranty, so try and get one just under 60k miles and pay the money for the warranty, the V10 is not cheap if things go wrong. It's worth the money for piece of mind, this is a £70k car new and you will be fixing at this price point.
Any more info just let me know :)
Given the family duties, is it worth looking at an RS6?
Can only echo the comments above.
I too had an E60 M5. Bought it new and was never won over by it. It never felt very fast and, whilst you expected the mpg to be awful, the stupidly small fuel tank was just annoying. I got to know all the petrol station attendants by name. On one particularly spirited drive back through Germany I was managing a range of approximately 150 miles per tank.
I also think they are a massive bill waiting to happen as a used car - the SMGIII transmission, engine and various other technology is going to be expensive to fix.
Lastly, remember that whilst you are buying the car for circa 17k, they were 60k+ new and thus you'll be servicing a car of that value, not a 17k one. I hope this is stating the obvious but some people seem to forget this element and then realise the car is far more expensive to run than they expected.
thought i remembered watch a review on the m5, here is a taster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zYWOqm_Zkc
I thought it was even worse than that!
So wanted to buy an M5 estate and test drove it 3 times in different conditions but SMG was a deal-breaker. The 550i would be far better for around town but rarer. Also worth trying a Jag XF SV8 for less money. AMG E class are worth a look but consumables like brake discs can be VERY expensive
Sensible family car for London? Gotta be an RS6, if you can find one within budget. I've got a friend who's had pretty much any M built in the last 12 years. He loved his M5 V10. Not had any problems, But he's a serious car flipper, changes once every 18 months or so.
This is part of my problem, being a boy the heart says, loud and fast, but my head is telling me there's nothing wrong with our '08 Polo, we've had it three years, we bought it on 23k and its just turned over 29k, 1.4td, £30 tax, it's a no brainier...I'm just feeling the urge...:o)
What zbout a supercharged rangerover full fat version
Doesn't hang about and as comfy as hell
Ask me how I know
Check out fullfat rangerover forum
Yep,
Across Twickenham bridge on the A316 you get all of 200 yards to put your foot down, or maybe the North Circular with its 50mph limit and cameras everywhere, or the M25 heaven on Earth,
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I also do around 4-5k miles in London driving a year, had a similar itch and found that circa 12mpg got irritating very quickly. That £200 every month in extra fuel plus insurance that comes with a free tube of KY when it doubles every year and even specialist servicing costs diminish the pleasure of the car in a big way. And that's not even thinking about depreciation of an easy couple grand a year or more.
Each year the thing will cost you a new Rolex or other shiny toy or rather nice family holiday over what the polo costs. Only you can decide whether its worth it. For me i would stick to a sensible car. if you must scratch the itch what about spending 3.5 k on membership of a supercar club.
You're a long time dead mate
I'd rather regret what I've done than regret what I haven't!
At the price point we are discussing here depreciation loss is minimal as the car is well over 3 years old, I see the only real issue being the running costs which the OP seems to have got his head around, I say go for it!
Thats your view. I did it and am sharing my experience.
that 17.5k car will be worth around half that again in 3 years in most cases.
The only vaguely sensible way to do this is a 911 from somebody like portiacraft who does a good buyback scheme but you will need to tie up a good few grand more than 18k. This wont work if your kids are very young obv.
From that era of cars, have you considered an E class AMG by Mercedes? Similar performance to the BMW M5, but whereas the general view seems to be that the M5 is the more “racy”, the Mercedes is the more refined – this may suit you if you’re after a car which is easy to drive in a city. The AMG also seems to be comparatively cheaper to buy than the M5.
With regards the S4, I have read quite a few owner comments stating that the manual box is a bit of a nightmare for city driving, primarily because of the gear ratios. For that reason, I’d be tempted to look at the tiptronic version if you decide to go down that route.
(I should add, all of the above is based on reading owner forums / Pistonheads, rather than driving experience (I drive a fast Volvo!). You’re really best off trying some of the above to get an idea what suits you rather than getting too caught-up in reviews / opinions, as is easy to do).
Last edited by CamCG; 18th July 2013 at 09:37.
I had an M5 V10 and can echo most of what's been said
With the "M" button down and on an open road it's glorious. But in most other situations it was just annoying.
The SMG gearbox is truly awful in town, fuel consumption pitiful (as low as 9mpg) and as the fuel tank is quite small, I visited the petrol station every other day ( just about)
I knew the previous owner quite well ( which was why I bought it) He does more "open road" miles per week than I do so was OK with the box , but it was the fuel consumption that got him down most.
If I recall correctly, the BMW full warranty (which mine had) was a bit vague on whether it covered the inevitable clutch/gearbox rebuild that they all need sooner or later.
If you can get an M3 V8 manual in budget - that's what I'd go for.
Have you considered a B7 RS4? A nice one would fall well within your budget and its a cracking car!
I had an E92 M3 (coupe) in manual and wasn't overly keen on it, I'm really sold on "flappy paddles" nowadays!
Probably because you're trying to off load one.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I have a B7 A4 convertible, S line, but not no RS.
I love the gear box on it also.
Much as I love the M5 (I had an E34 and now have an E39), be aware that these days the BMW Extended Warranty is a total rip-off, with almost every claim being refused because the component is rated as "trim" or "glass" or the cause is "water ingress" or just plain "no".
There was a time when the BMW Extended Warranty was worth having - basically, if the car broke, they fixed it - but these days it is insurance backed and they will use any possible excuse to avoid accepting claims. Even when the problem is very clearly covered under the terms of the warranty, my experience is that they will initially say that it is not, and will only accept liability after significant hassle.
We currently have 3 cars covered by the BMW warranty (the M5, my Z4M and my wife's Mini Cooper S) - all with fully comprehensive cover and £0 excess, costing us over £3000 a year in premiums.
Within the next few months, there will be zero BMW products in our garage. I like the cars, but not the hassle of ownership - I'm looking at replacing them with something like a Lexus IS-F, a 996 or 997 turbo and some sort of cheap estate car.
It's a real shame, as I really like BMW's M-cars, but ownership of an M-car is only financially viable with a warranty, and a warranty is only viable if it does what it's paid to do, which the BMW Extended Warranty most certainly does not.
http://www.marlowcars.co.uk/audi-a8-...r-sale-2929660
Whats not to love, 5.2 V10 goodness. its mmm a tad on the large side mind.
Ha ha totally the opposite just bought one to go alongside my other cars and love itProbably because you're trying to off load one.
Looked at an M5 too being a life long M fan. .... Still got one and has been said before on a motorway or at full chat...... WOW awesome. Round the town terrible. By the way I love SMG boxes I got my M3 sorted before I sold it smooth as owt in the "auto" mode ferocious in manual
But I'd hate to put a clutch and box in one I heard an M5 one is £12k
The yanks got a manual btw
S6 v10 5.2 for me, plus the full fat Miltek exhaust.
All the toys, comfortable, roomy - love it.
It may not be as 'full on' as an M5, but that suits me down to the ground. And the noise...
Sure it drinks fuel (22ave, but high 20s on a motorway run), but I enjoy driving every mile.
22mpg average?!?! I've had my RS5 a week now and I'm averaging 15mpg and it is more economical!?
My boss has an RS6 and he's sub 20mpg too.
I'm not that quick a driver tbh, I just love the overall package and knowing the turn of speed is there for when the mood takes me. And it sounds good at any speed with the miltek fitted - it was far too refined before and you had to press hard to hear the exhaust note.
Total and utter madness.
You live in London (with speed bumps and pot holes and a 30 mph speed limit). You need space for wife and kids. Need I go on.
An RS6 especially the V10, is just nuts and totally pointless a 180 mph van!!
However I do appricate the need for something a bit special. Therefore
For me you have two choices
a Chelsea Tractor - in which case you should get a Porsche KN Diesel - no brainer.
or get something a bit mental, but practical. So what about a Bentley Flying Spur or a Rolls. Or perhaps check out any specialist mechanics in your area which is close to you and go for something they can look after. £17K will get you quite a bit of motor and if its already old, it will not lose to much if you decide to get shot. Or even consider a Yank (mustang or charger?)
So something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-Jense...item1e77ee8244
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
There is no justification for a car like this being a suitable car for central London - the only justification is that you want it, and have the means to buy it and run it. That's all you need, but really, everything else is coming out of the back of a horse. So by all means buy one, but beware parking it in London's communist-sized car parking spaces, threading it down its 2,000 year old streets at 15 mph between white vans, Addison Lee maniacs and Tesco and Sainsbury's semi-trucks delivering opposite one another during the middle of every day of the week, try not to wince as the 19"/20" alloys bend in the potholes, and remember that even if you're bunny-hopping along getting 9 mpg, a two-litre diesel would only be returning about 30 ;).
Last edited by andrew; 20th July 2013 at 13:16.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
9mpg, 15mpg, 20mpg because you like the sound the engine makes? in a city like London? for the first time ever I don't believe our government charges enough fuel duty,
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I would certainly be looking at a Jeep SRT8, Brilliant S/H buy Eats most so called super cars alive Std and not too expensive to see 1000 BHP. Needs adding to your list without doubt.
Last edited by fishman307; 20th July 2013 at 15:16.
Buy Concorde.
Well its about as sensible as most of the options suggested above ^^^^^
Thanks chaps for your views. On reflection I think the performance car might have to wait until I move out of London. So, that being the case, I've been looking at Mercedes ML's, 2006 onwards, under 60k and diesel. £15k seems to get a good example, so does anyone have one/had one? What are they like to drive? Looks like they have bags of space. Ultimately I'd like something spacious and comfortable and ideally high (the mrs is short and likes to be able to see over other cars). BMW is out based on their crap service and the Audi Q5 is still a bit pricey. Thoughts?
Another big 4x4 in central London?
Yep, a brilliant idea.
Not.
Got to drive the kids to school in something...it's a whole half a mile!
Are they not able to walk? (serious Q).
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Hahahah, FFS this thread just gets better, is it a wind up?
Have you considered a Hummer, according to Arnie they are the perfect city run about.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Lexus RX?
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Or if its for the school run, a Cayenne Turbo in white with 22 inch spinners.
Anything else just isn't going to get you on the PTA.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Is that the Harper Valley PTA?
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