Reply With QuoteIf it was me i would tell him to jog on by
I sold a 1982 Seamaster on eBay a couple of weeks ago - there was an initial problem with PayPal witholding the buyers payment, which they eventually released and I sent the watch.
Although I sent it to the verified address on PayPal (which also matched the eBay address) I had a feeling that this wouldn't be the last I'd heard of it.
Today the buyer has sent me a message (not a dispute) saying the watch is not as advertised as there are "cracks" on the case. English does not appear to be his first language as the areas he has highlighted are scratches / knocks that wouldn't polish out....nothing that you wouldn't expect to see on a 30 year old watch to be honest with you.
Anyway - where do I stand on this? It states at the bottom of my auction that I will not accept any returns or refunds, but I've heard horror stories in the past of buyers starting an official eBay dispute and being refunded their payment and being allowed to keep the goods - which would leave me out of pocket and without the watch.
Am I better off just getting him to send it back, checking it over, offering him a refund and re-listing the watch?
If it was me i would tell him to jog on by
He has buyer protection and if he starts a claim then Paypal will with hold the money on your account and will ask the buyer to return it.I would offer him a refund on the return of the watch TBH and as you say check the glass and relist.
It could all get a bit messy if you just do nothing.
regards
T
The trouble with this is that Ebay/Paypal almost always come dome in favour of the buyer...so the OP stands the risk of losing out. IF he was to go down the refund route then the buyer is supposed to return the item,as received,at his own cost. When it has been received then Paypal refund the monies. It's not unusual for unscrupulous buyers to send an empty packet back by registered post as as soon as it shows as delivered via the tracking,that's good enough for Paypal.Originally Posted by cypermethrin
Sometimes (and it's happened to me twice) Ebay rule in favour of the buyer but for some strange reason also rule the seller not at fault. In this case the buyer gets his funds released by Paypal and Ebay cover the cost of the refund. Buyer wins both ways 'cause they get the goods for free.
The important thing if you are to stand any chance of winning a dispute is for your description and pictures to be watertight. Otherwise it's worth exploring other means of settlement eg part refund.
Good luck whatever way!
Thanks for the advice all - I'd love to tell him to shove it, but can't afford to lose the £££ I sold the watch for.
I have asked him to send the watch back to me and offered him the choice of a full refund or a swap for the other very similar watch I've got for sale.
I'll let you know what he decides. My gut feeling is that this is not going to end well.
something similar happened to me, a couple of weeks after i mailed the watch i got a note saying that it arrived broken, please refund or i will leave negative feedback, this went on back and forth for a week, i agreed to refund the buyer on condition that the watch was returned, this refused, the refund was required and the watch would not be returned, eventually i got negative feedback, but no watch returned, i complained to ebay but i got no reply.
I can deal with negative feedback - in fact not bothered in the slightest.
Circa £300 I am bothered about though!
He hasn't replied to my suggestions. I haven't left feedback for him yet either. Not that you can leave bad feedback for buyers any more though can you?
i forgot to mention that i did not send him any money.
Did you mention the scratches in any way in your description? Were they visible in your photos? If so, then the buyer can't really complain, if not, then you may be on a sticky wicket... A partial good faith refund could perhaps be an option to persue with the buyer? Ebay has become a nightmare for sellers, you really have to make sure you cover your arse as much as possible from the outset... Hope everything works out ok...
.... but I have a very similar situation:
I sold a 1960's Longines at the end of September to an EBayer in Singapore. I heard nothing from him until this morning when I recieved a message saying that he was very unhappy with the condition of the dial. The listing clearly stated that there was staining around the logo, worn minute markers and the odd spot. I also listed with hi-res pictures. This clown says he has only just looked at the watch as he has been away on business and yet between now and when the watch was sold he has bought and sold several items as well as leaving and receiving feedback!
I'm sure I am dealing with buyers remorse here but as above, it is me that is at risk of a) bad feedback and b) getting shafted. :(
UPDATE:
All my dealings with this chap have been via the messaging section on eBay so far. I offered him either a full refund, or an alternative watch - both subject to him returning the watch to me in the condition I sold it in.
He again replied through ebay messages saying that he would prefer a full refund, then asked for my full name, postal address and email address.
I'm not sure why, but ever since this person bought the watch, I've had a funny feeling about him and can't help thinking that this is leading to some sort of scam. I have replied saying that if he requires a refund he myst go through the eBay resolution centre and have heard nothing from him since.
Not sure what the scam is yet, if there even is one, but what sort of information would he need to gain access to my PayPal account or my eBay account for that matter? He buys loads of things every day and has only ever got positive feedback (nearly 5000 in just over a year of being on eBay).
drop a line to HMRC they love to investigate bulk buyers, he has to off load it somewhere.
ANOTHER UPDATE
After trawling through previous feedback for this company - I found some "positive" that had been left saying this person is a scammer.
Wonderful.
It seems that they buy things on eBay UK on behalf of overseas customers and then forward the goods onto them! Bastards. Got a feeling that even if this ends well, I'll have a stressful couple of weeks trying to sort it.
He will have to send it back to you recorded delivery - if it doesn't get back to you and he can't prove he posted it, ebay will find in your favour. When (if) you do receive the parcel (especially in this case) make damn sure you open the parcel in front of the Postie in case the buyer tries the old 'empty parcel' trick.
Good luck!
edit - can you tell us who this is? Or pm me a name if you don't want to reveal it in public yet.
I was thinking of filming myself opening the package if or when it comes back to me for proof - opening it infront of the postie is a good plan too.
The eBay user name is: uklogitech11 - if any of you want to block him from bidding on your auctions in the future.
I remember a thread about some guy a while back who filmed himself opening his watch parcel - lo and behold, no watch! Turned out he was the scammer. Opening in front of the postie is a definite.
Oof... have a google of this guy. Not good. Have a look here too: http://community.ebay.co.uk/topic/In...msg18006754127
Yeah I've read that. I'm annoyed now.....
He still hasn't got my address or started a dispute in the resolution centre. I should have trusted my gut feeling on this from the start.
I've already emailed Ebay with the auction number and his user ID and told them the basic story. See what they advise.
Their feedback system is completely pointless if you can only leave positive for a buyer.
eBay responded by just copy and pasting from their own help pages. I could tell it was copy and paste because the reply flitted between perfect, readable English and shoddy, poorly written English. Seemed to not be the customer service rep's first language.
Either way - they just used a bog standard response and didn't seem to care that I, or previous sellers, were accusing this buyer of being a scam artist.
On the plus side, since I told the buyer that I would not provide any details to him and that he should go through the eBay resolution centre, I've heard nothing! No more talk of refunds. My next step was going to be telling him that he would have to send the watch back by Special Delivery and that I would be opening it infront of the postman at the sorting office (as suggested above).
Good work! Hopefully this will be the end of the matter. He probably tries this with everyone.....
+1....exactly what I`d do. It's easy to offer advice to the contrary (ie tell him to get stuffed) but it doesn`t work that way. Best to turn the other cheek, offer his money back on return of the watch. Maybe the watch isn`t what he thought it would be. Take it on the chin and relist the watch, or offer it to the second-highest bidder.
Paul
What an absolute pain, for ref' can you insist on not being paid via PayPal for eBay listings or is there no choice as they are one and the same company?
Sorry bit 'off' topic but just trying to figure out a solution.
Stating that the return package will be opened in front of an official is a great tip!!
As far as I know you can offer any payment method you like, but you MUST offer PayPal.
So you get stung with eBay seller fees and then stung again with PayPal fees.
Pretty sure this is going to be my last time selling anything of any value on eBay as I've had problems, scams and dramas every time I've done so in the past.
I agree though - opening any returns infront of an independant witness like the postie is a top idea and a must for protecting yourself against scammers.
Transfer the money from your PayPal account to your bank account and withdraw or put it in a non-related account ASAP. Explain your no returns policy and the fact that the watch was sold as described in photos and with description and ignore it. If he leaves negative feedback explain the problem to eBay.
That doesn't help. I sold a phone a few years back for around £150. The funds cleared, I moved them from PayPal into my bank account and then away to a different account before sending the phone.
A few days later I received an email from PayPal saying there was a problem with my account and when I logged in it was on -£150. Basically, when they had gone to retrieve the money from the buyers account, he had insufficient funds so the transaction couldn't go through. PayPal is not the instant money transfer that they like to pretend it is.
Anyway - as I said my PayPal was now on a minus amount and the message on the screen basically told me that they would be withdrawing the money from my bank account ASAP to bring the balance back to zero.
Luckily for me the buyer was a decent chap, not a fraudster and he sent me a cheque. No PayPal fees for me!
all I can say is UNLUCKY. we never think of this bullshit until doesn't happen to us!
It also happened when I sold my old lap top this time 2 years ago - that time the bloke put in a dispute against me saying that it wasn't as described and asking for a part refund. I offered a full refund on return of the laptop, but he refused saying that he'd already had the work carried out. Luckily eBay found in my favour and said I had no case to answer, but the funds received for the laptop were still frozen for around a month while it was sorted out.
I've got to be one of the unluckiest eBay sellers ever.
HE'S BACK!
His latest message has a slightly bolshy undertones to it too - asking if I realise that eBay can see all of our communications and that I've been ignoring him.
I've replied saying that I am not willing to discuss the case anymore unless he opens a case in the resolution centre. I then told him that I have researched him on eBay and via google, that I am of the opinion that he's a scammer and that I have advised eBay of this.
I signed off by stating that, if returned, he would need to fully insure the watch and that I would open the item at the sorting office in front of Royal Mail staff and on CCTV.
How long has he got from buying the item to raise a complaint etc? There must be a cut off date!
He has 45 days to open a dispute. I doubt he will now as it sounds like you have enough evidence to win this case. Ebay will have him return the watch and then you will refund him, but if he doesnt have the watch or sends an empty package and youve filmed this then he cant win and he knows it.
BTW youve had problems before so why dont you know about the 45 days?
I have had to speak to ebay before, and the first line call centres are useless and toothless, if you can get through to the level above, in Ireland you are on better ground. As you have seen, first line response gives you stock answers to questions you aren't even asking.
Good luck with this
I knew there was a cut off date, but not exactly how many days it was.
eBay told me in their cut and paste reply that there was 45 days after a dispute ha been raised to sort it out. However, there was nothing mentioned about how many days from purchasing an item they had to raise a complaint in the first place.
He's back again today and is again asking for my return details. He seems to be trying to get my address etc but keeps ignoring me when I ask him to go through the proper channels and request a refund through the eBay resolution centre.
Remember this? Well the 45 days that he had to raise a complaint in the resolution centre ends tomorrow. Want to guess who I had an email from this morning? Yep - eBay resolution centre!
I haven't heard anything from him since the start of the month, he's raised the case through ebay.com not .co.uk which I found slightly odd for a supposed uk buyer and it's written in the best english I've ever seen him use.
My PayPal account is now on minus while the funds from this transaction are frozen, so I've just escalated it straight to eBay to resolve.
Prediction: this will not end well!
Just reported him for "false or missing contact information" - both the number sent via resolution centre and the number I got from requesting his contact information seem to be US numbers (from the length and format).
Every little helps.
Buyers get better rights buying used on eBay than they do buying brand new on the high street!
Well that was quick - eBay have found in the buyers favour. Just got to wait for an empty box to be posted back to me now!
This is why I only ever now purchase (low value) from eBay. It really is no longer worth the potential trouble selling.
This is quite a shocking tale and puts me off using eBay again for anything of value. I had a dispute this year as a buyer but I returned the watch in the same condition it arrived in and just lost out on the postage. Other transactions have been fine but it seems there are a lot of scammers out there. I really hope you get a good outcome but it really shouldn't be so stressful.
Face to face with a credit card is the only way to buy a watch, having checked it first and only from someone you can trust, if big money is involved. Never sold any watches, but no way would I think about eBay now. I hope it turns out well, you have done everything right so far.
Also stopped selling on eBay. Too many bad apples:-(
Martin
I hope it does end well, sounds like a right scumbag!!
I think everybody gets problems with ebay and as you have found the customer service is completely useless.
It will back fire on them eventually as many of my friends now sell items with Bank transfer as a payment method (So no charge back issues). A lot of them also get the potential buyer to email them direct (not through ebay). Then they do a discounted deal before pulling the auction from ebay. Ebay don't get any fees - totally against their rules but I guess if they are going to take 20%+ and give no security to sellers or decent customer service it will happen more and more.
This goes from bad to worse......
So eBay found (predictably) in the buyers favour as I mentioned. I emailed him and asked for the tracking number and was informed it would be with me as soon as possible.
Today the tracking number was added in the resolution centre. It's coming to me via DHL from a place called Seoul - which is apparently in a country called South Korea - and not Slough, where I posted the watch at the start of November.
Just spoke to eBay customer services who informed me that, as the buyer had opened his case against me in eBay.com and not eBay.co.uk it was being dealt with by them. Luckily they're based in the states and he suggested I just give them a quick call to sort it out!!!!!
I pointed out to him (as I'm pretty sure "Craig" wasn't working in a call centre anywhere in the UK) that calling America (for an item I sold in the England on a .co.uk website to and English buyer) was going to cost me a pretty penny and therefore not going to happen. I also suggested he put me on the phone to his boss - which he swiftly did - up steps "Sharon". She helpfully said that she'd email the American customer services team the details of my problem and tried to get me off the phone - when I asked her what she was going to say in her email she went silent and then finally said "I don't know".
20 minutes later, after explaining the enitre problem again, she's emailed her American colleagues and promised me I'll get a call back in 24-48 hours.
It also dawned on me that something being sent directly to me from South Korea is going to incur customs charges!
Brilliant news eh!
DON'T SELL ON EBAY
Poor guy :(
If only you knew all this about this 'buyer' moments earlier. If Korean police found out about this I would hope that there would be massive punishments dished out!
If and when the package does turn up, simply do not accept it.
The package will then be returned to the buyer for him to deal with, saves you having to pay any customs charges.
As far as I know, paypal & ebay stands with the buyer most of the times. I've heard horrible stories when the seller had to issue a refund even though the buyer sent the item back damaged ?! Certainly a position not to be in...
I would agree, if customs is due then don't accept it and have it returned to sender. Alternatively, open it in front of a witness and then write a letter to the MD of eBay setting out what has happened. Emails and phone calls are never as effective as a letter in my experience. If eBay don't take your side there may be a case to claim back through the small claims court as they are facilitating fraud.
Hate to see this type of s**t it ruins what should be a great resource.
I hope it works out ok for you
These type of people ruin everything!
My parcel is now in Germany!
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