Reply With Quotehi i am looking forward to spa,just to see what all the teams have been up to,on another point did you ever see the documentry the killer years.and if you did how did it make you feel,i thought it was very disturbing but brilliantly done.
I thought that I'd kick this off this evening, to remind any of you with nothing to do tomorrow and access to Sky that after the long summer break, Formula 1 returns this weekend, and to the best circuit on the calendar.
Although no longer the fearsome widow-maker of the past (no Masta Kink, or flat-out curves between cottages and trees), Spa is, by comparison to the identikit, anesthetised Tilkedromes, the Grand Prix circuit of the Gods. And we start with the good news that the local promoters have signed a three-year deal which safeguards the race until 2015.
The teams haven't been completely idle during the enforced break. It's difficult to imagine Adrian Newey relaxing on a beach. At least not without a sketch pad and calculator. The long-awaited Lotus double-DRS is expected to make it's debut in Qualifying, having only been seen in Free Practice sessions so far, and used exclusively by Kimi Raikkonen. The DRS detection zone for this weekend is on the downhill run to Eau Rouge, with activation after Eau Rouge along the Kemmel Straight.
The driver-go-round hasn't stopped during the holidays, and speculation continues as to the identity of the occupant of the second Ferrari. The Scuderia didn't see fit to take up their option on Massa for next year, and this expired on 31 July. Just about every current and one or two recent F1 drivers have now been linked with the seat. Meanwhile, one who was mentioned in passing, one L Hamilton, looks likely to autograph a McLaren contract in the not too distant future.
Pirelli are supplying the Medium and Hard tyres this weekend, and the difficulty for the spectators and commentators is that one has silver markings, the other has white and are therefore virtually indistinguishable. Not sure who thought that was a good idea. The entire Pirelli range has been softened up for this year, so these tyres are actually quite similar to last year's Soft and Medium. Last year saw controversy surround Red Bull (by way of a change) who ran their front suspension geometry outside of Pirelli's guidelines, which prompted the FIA to "clarify" the rules.
I've no idea of the weather forecast for the weekend, and anyway with a 7km lap surrounded by forest in a region noted for unreliable weather it can easily be wet on one section of the circuit and bone dry everywhere else.
Whatever happens, Fernando Alonso will leave Spa leading the Drivers' Championship, as he has a 40 point lead at present. Picking a winner for the race is a bit like picking the winner of the Grand National, but the general feeling is that Lotus could do well.
Free Practice 1 is at 9am in the morning. More later.
Regards
Ian
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hi i am looking forward to spa,just to see what all the teams have been up to,on another point did you ever see the documentry the killer years.and if you did how did it make you feel,i thought it was very disturbing but brilliantly done.
I've seen "The Killer Years" a couple of times, and it's quite chilling. The advances in motor racing safety mean that death and permanent disfigurement are no longer a regular feature of motor racing, thankfully. These days, we watch a racing car leave the circuit at high speed and destroy itself spectacularly, and expect to see the driver step out of the wreckage and walk away.
It could be said that t was Jackie Stewart's accident at Spa which was the catalyst for the improvements in F1 safety, which has filtered down to all forms of racing.
Regards
Ian
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Hi
Nice summary :-)
In this house we want Kimi to bring home his first win of the season.!
Thanks
deano
Link to the BBC Weather Forecast for the Belgian GP here.Originally Posted by Backward point
PS I'd like to see Kimi back on the top step as well.
Lovely write up.........you should apply for a job at Autosport as a staffer.
Went to Spa back in 97 I think it was. Drove over with the Mrs and had a couple of hours of kip in a car park, beofre setting off to the circuit at 3am, thinking we'd be guaranteed a spot at the Bus Stop which was my preferred vantage point. After tramping for a couple of miles laden down with picnic box and beers we got to where we wanted to be only to find it already packed (mostly with Germans) judging by the flags...I think they must have camped in situ overnight.
Another long trek 'til we found a nice empty spot right up against the wire fence by the edge of the circuit...only thing was this was on the straight running into the Bus Stop and hence very fast limiting what you could see (no big screen either), the noise however, WOW, that was worth all the effort alone.
Thanks for the kind comments, chaps. And the link to the weather forecast - according to which, Friday looks likely to be wet (the aero geeks will like that, as it's easier to visualise the airflow over the car when it's streaked with water). And the teams don't use up their precious allocation of slick tyres.
A wet Friday will, however, mean no DRS, thereby slightly compromising setup finalisation, but you can't have it both ways. Incidentally, DRS is forbidden through Eau Rouge in any event, but I imagine that even the truly committed would err on the side of caution there, anyway.
If anybody is going this year, I'm envious, and we expect to see some photos!
Regards
Ian
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I have a similar tale from my visit to Spa in 1999. We 'saved money' by buying general admission tickets and stood on the Kemmel straight, again with no big screen. There's no victory lap at Spa due to the length of the circuit, so we only knew the race was over when it went quiet...we only found out Coulthard had won when we got back home and watched the video of the race. Despite that I loved it...but have always splashed out on reserved tickets ever since.
Not a great deal to report from today's sessions, as it started off wet and then became wetter. Drivers were naturally circumspect (there are no spare cars these days) and only a few completed more than a handful of timed laps. The only real dramas were a few misjudgements of braking into Les Combes at the end of the Kemmel Straight, Schuey taking some kerb on the way into Eau Rouge and the car having a big twitch, Hamilton breaking traction and the rear wheels spinning up on the run towards Blanchimont, and Massa having an engine failure at the end of his out lap in the first session.
Tomorrow and Sunday are supposed to be dry, but this is Spa, so who knows?
Regards
Ian
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Following Ian Fergusson's forecast from yesterday, which turned out to be somewhat conservative in the quantity of rain predicted, the BBC have drafted in Sarah Keith-Lucas in order to try and pull back some credibility. Her updated outlook for the rest of the weekend is available here, but doesn't seem to have changed much from the original.
Thanks for the updated weather forecast. Sarah Keith-Lucas is also easier on the eye than Mr Fergusson, isn't she?
Anyway. FP3 this morning will be somewhat busier than either session yesterday, methinks. Everybody will be out, trying to find a "dry" setup, and the session is only an hour long, whereas Friday free practice sessions are an hour and a half each. Teams will be relying on setups developed in their simulators back at base, so this weekend's result could be dictated by who has the best computers.
Qualifying should be interesting.
Regards
Ian
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Firstly, a Happy Early Retirement to Ian and congratulations on a cracking new watch that he’s treated himself to.
What a great weekend you must be having
Secondly; apologies for my absence over the past couple of months. I must admit to having become somewhat disenchanted with the forum, but you only get out what you put in, so am back in the saddle.
Spa is probably my favourite track of the season (perhaps equalled only by Suzuka IMO) so I’ve been looking forward to this weekend very much.
Obviously the weather spoilt it for everyone yesterday, but what a qualifying session!
I admit to being an admirer of Button. He may not be the fastest driver (normally) and clearly only operates well within a narrow window, but I think that he’s a class act in and out of the car. Alonso and Hamilton may be much better all-rounders and possess the ability to drive around problems but, as we saw today, if the car is just-so JB can be unbeatable.
I’ve also got a tremendous soft spot for Sauber and Williams – both classic racing teams in every sense. I can’t say that I like Maldonado, but it’s so enjoyable to see Williams doing well and I loved seeing Monisha K overjoyed at Kobayashi being on the front row (and Perez a commendable fifth). They could all do well if they keep their noses clean.
Kimi really looked threatening until it came to quali. Having said that, he’s driven some very, very good races – so often relentlessly catching the leaders in the final stint. Let’s hope they get the tyres right.
Alonso and Hamilton both looked like they got the set-up wrong. I know Hamilton mentioned the rear wing change as having been the cause (and he may well be right for all I know) but they just drove like they didn’t have any balance between front and rear.
Obviously I could bang on, so I’ll just limit myself to saying:
Vettel – good to see him eating humble pie. It’s a track he can overtake on, so it will be interesting to see how he battles and whether he has matured as a driver.
Senna – is it lack of ability or a car set-up that doesn’t suit him? He seems a great chap and is obviously talented, but is he going to stay in F1 for 2013? I hope he finds his way to better results.
Caterham still not moving forward while Virgin (easier to spell than the new name) are actually starting to push-up, despite the KERSless Cosworth…
That’s me for now. Good to be back and thank you to Ian and everyone for tolerating me
A good Qualifying session, with Jenson Button on pole by a third of a second, ahead of Kamui Kobayashi (the first Japanese driver to start from the front row) and Pastor Maldonado.
The Red Bulls will start 11th (Vettel, who missed out on Q3 and hasn't really looked to be on form at all) and 12th, Maaaak having had a gearbox change. A similar fate befell Nico Rosberg, who had a gearbox failure early in FP3, the only dry practice session of the weekend, which meant that he lost valuable setup time. Mercedes are in a similar position to McLaren in that they haven't really mastered the art of optimising the 2012 Pirellis.
Fernando Alonso starts sixth, just behind the highly-fancied Kimi Raikkonen, with Lewis Hamilton promoted to seventh after Wibbah's penalty.
The weather forecast is for a dry race, but as it's Spa who knows? A good race in prospect.
Regards
Ian
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Nice one JB - so much better than having to say that the race should be better for him than the qualifying performance suggested. It really is a tyre lottery this year though. I can't say I like that. The optimum operating window for the tyre seems to be tiny. It's the exact opposite of what you'd expect the engineers to be aiming for. So much for the sport bring trickle down benefit to road cars!
Anyway it's Spa so it should be interesting.
what has caused sebastians drop in form,has he been dabling with the other sex.
The more I watch F1 the more I gain respect for Alonso. Any car, any track, any conditions, he's a threat.
Sorry Ian, I'm afraid it's Peter Gibbs bringing today's weather update. Still your run of good fortune this weekend had to end sometime.
Just to add my best wishes for your early retirement. It's the best thing I ever did after twenty odd years working for 'the man'. Now I'm in the fortunate position of being able to pick and choose the freelance jobs I take on. Hope it all works out as well for you too.
Looking good for a great race tomorrow . My favorite memory of Spa was Kimi driving through the smoke of de la Rosa's crash without lifting off the throttle ( apparently the telemetry confirmed it ) . Quick clip from you tube , but perhaps someone has more info on that .
Good to see you back Peter .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emYvs3D-2q4
Thanks for the kind comments, chaps.
I'm enjoying this weekend - Spa, England winning yesterday, Hampshire beating Sussex this afternoon to reach the CB40 final, a couple of new watches, and Peter back on the F1 thread! It doesn't get any better than this!Welcome back, Peter!
All we need now is a good race tomorrow. And any race at Spa is usually a good one.
Regards
Ian
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Good old Jenson!
Is it just me, or does the post-2010 make looking at the championship points standing incredible non-intuitve? There was nothing wrong with it once they stopped only including so many races.
A deserved one race ban for Grosjean after that start . Well done to Jenson , back in hunt now.
Any news re Maldonado's jumped start?
10 place grid penalty . 5 places for the jump start , and 5 for causing a accident .
Thanks for the update.
Just watched the highlights.
Alonso must have shit himself, the view from his camera was shocking!
Rightly so grosjean getting a ban.
An interesting race. Glad that Jenson closed the gap on the 'pack'. Maldonado doing himself no favours again. Not a nice incident at the start, but what grosjean did is not worse than half of what maldonado has got away with without a ban. It's just that what grosjean did affected more drivers.
Enjoyable race with lots going on throughout.
The incident at the start was grim viewing, but has helped to concertina the championship standings, and bodes well for a close run in to the end of the season.
The Hamilton 'tweeting' stories suggest all's not well on that side of the garage...all a bit strange.
Re: Hamilton's tweets; it does make you wonder what his state of mind is. Posting his and Button's telemetry from qualifying is almost unthinkable. It seems that perhaps his contract negotiations aren't going too well, and he isn't being offered as much as he would like?
A general observation about the McLaren drivers: It's like Jenson and Lewis are on opposite ends of a see-saw; if one is up, the other is down.
What about the championship? Despite having a 'bad' year, Vettel can't be written off.
I've read in a few places that Lewis does not have too many options from the top teams for drives next year. Apparently, yes I know it's from the meedya, He's not wanted by Ferrari or RedBull or Mercedes. Meanwhile negotiations with Mclaren are focussed on his travel perks and media commitments.
As far as I can make out JB kept working with the new wing with the limited time available despite that fact it was less than perfect and caused a scary moment or two on Saturday. Lewis opted for the older wing as a safer bet. It then turned out (for all the world to see - thanks to Lewis) that the new wing not only worked well in Sector 1 and 3 but was OK in sector 2 as well. Or perhaps Button just got the car dialed in better.
Lewis was upset by the loss of a family member this weekend perhaps this and the stress of the contract negotiations is getting to him a bit.
Is Lewis the golden child next to JB's journeyman effort. Try adding up the points since they started driving in the same team.
Enjoyed the race imensely, especially when KIMI overtook Michael at 185 MPH upto aEau Rouge, if you''ve ever driven Spa and taken that as flat as you dare, your know what I mean.
The accident at the start could have killed Alonso, He knew he was very lucky to escape that unhurt. Looking forward to gte rest of gte season, it's been a great year for F1, interesting for once.
Not happy Romain Grossjean has a ban, but being a Lotus fan, thats because I'm biased lol.
J
Grosjean's ban is perfectly justified. He has been involved in far too many early-race crashes, and is a threat to all around him. The same applies to Maldonado who, win in Spain notwithstanding, just looks out of his depth. Williams have a dilemma - if he wasn't bringing so much money to the team, I suspect that he would be replaced at the end of the season. He hasn't scored at all since Barcelona, whereas Bruno Senna keeps bringing the car home in the points.
Lotus? Not really. Not at all, in fact. There's no connection now to the Lotus team of old, or indeed Lotus Cars. Sponsorship of the team was part of the overly ambitious and grandiose "plan" of the now redundant former Lotus Cars CEO Dany Bahar. The Lotus investment in the team has been converted into a loan, secured on the assets of the team (including the premises at Enstone, cars and equipment), which is now an asset owned by the parent company of Lotus Cars owners Proton, DRB-Hicom. The cars happen to run in a black and gold colour scheme with Lotus badging, for now.
Lewis Hamilton's behaviour is becoming increasingly bizarre. The publishing on Twitter of a telemetry trace comparing his qualifying readout with jenson Button's was unbelievably stupid - that sort of information is like gold dust for other teams. He gives the impression of having painted himself into a corner, with the continuation of his McLaren contract the only viable option open to him, but it seems that the team are playing hardball and that this is to be on their terms. Hamilton's management (more accustomed to managing showbiz clients) appear to have advised him poorly. Having a tantrum during contract negotiations doesn't historically strengthen one's bargaining position.
It's Monza next weekend. Lat's hope that with Romain Grosjean safely out of the way and Maldonado bringing up the rear thanks to a ten-place grid penalty, that the first chicane, which so often ends in tears, can be negotiated safely and we can have a proper race.
Regards
Ian
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Nigel Roebuck commented in MotorSport that McLaren seem to be getting on with things, either Hamilton wants to drive for them or if he doesn't then there's no point worrying about it, he wouldn't want to stay at McLaren and his heart wouldn't be in it so he can leave and they'll find someone else who would want to be there. In fact I'm sure they already have one or two replacements lined up. Unfortunately for Hamilton, he's not bigger than McLaren.
The call for closed cars, i.e. with canopies over the drivers to protect their heads, reminds me of the January 2000 issue of MotorSport, which contained an interview with Gordon Murray and his vision of what a future F1 car would look like were the FIA interested in good racing and relaxed some of the rules. You can click on the picture in the link below to see a larger version of the picture:
http://mccabism.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...f1-vision.html
"A man of little significance"
Interesting, though I'm not sure McCabe has fully thought through the many implications of his suggestion of nuclear powered cars.
The crash on Sunday was caused by open wheels. If canopies or closed cockpits are introduced, I wouldn't be surprised if closed wheels accompany them. Some form of roll hoop has been suggested as an alternative to a full canopy, but it's hard to see how you could design one that would protect against the kind of sideways swipe Alonso almost suffered whilst still allowing the driver to quickly exit the car.
That's interesting. Adrian Newey came up with a similar concept of his ultimate Grand Prix car a couple of years ago. If you asked all of the designers what would be the one thing they would change on an F1 car, to a man they would enclose the wheels.
The cockpit safety argument will gain fresh momentum after Spa, and rightly so. The FIA have been looking at the problem for some time, and have tested a structure similar to the front of a jet fighter canopy with some success. The downside is that it would hamper the removal of a driver in the event of an accident, more so if the car becomes inverted. There's no straightforward solution, but the FIA have made huge strides in driver safety in recent years, so with access to some of the finest engineering and design talent on the planet, I don't doubt that a solution will be found.
Will Formula 1 cars start to look like Sports Prototypes? Maybe. Nobody seems to complain about the appearance of the cars which race at Le Mans, and this would give the scope for the incorporation of more "green" technology, which appears to be the road upon which the FIA is travelling. Perhaps the end is nigh for open-wheel and open cockpit racing, at least at the highest level.
Regards
Ian
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I wonder how they'll solve the issue of windscreen wipers and the canopy steaming up in the rain? Will be interesting to see a driver with one of those chamois pads giving the screen a wipe on the straight...
"A man of little significance"
Doesn't really effect LMP cars tho does it? Audi went from open cockpit to enclosed 2? years ago...............
LMP1 regulations changed a couple of years ago, and made closed cockpits mandatory, although LMP2 can still run with open cockpits. From memory, the last time an F1 car actually came to rest upside down was Pedro Diniz in a Sauber during the German Grand Prix (or it could have been the Grand Prix of Europe) at the Nurburgring. I can't remember the year, but it was probably a decade ago.
Misting up could be dealt with by having electrically heated screens, and if the screens were treated and had sufficient curvature there would be no need for wipers. Tear-off strips are used on LMP1 cars, which can be removed at pit stops. It's all speculation and conjecture, I know, but there's nothing to stop the introduction of closed cockpits in Formula 1.
Not long ago, Grand Prix drivers' heads and shoulders were exposed. It took Mika Hakkinen's near-fatal crash at Adelaide to prompt the introduction of high cockpit sides and padding to prevent high-impact head injuries, and the mandatory HANS device prevents the type of neck and brain injury such as killed Dale Earnhart at Daytona. But freak accidents still occur, as we saw at Spa. If nothing is learned from last weekend, and a driver dies as a result of a similar crash, what then? there's no point in the FIA saying "perhaps we should have done something".
Regards
Ian
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Which bit doesn't affect LMP cars? They're different to F1 cars in a few main ways: the wheels are enclosed, they have holes in the wings above the wheels to limit the pressure differences that encouraged the cars to take off and the cars are bigger, with two roll hoops, so the driver has more protection from accidents. F1 cars tend to take off when wheels touch, as seen in the race at Spa, and they tend to be racing at very similar speeds, unlike the cars at Le Mans. You'll find that since the Mercedes' stopped taking off of (almost) their own free will the only big accidents at Le Mans (for example) have tended to be from the much slower GT cars tangling with the much faster prototypes. Sure, there have been one or two from oil on the track, mechanical failure or driver error but the open prototypes have been fine. Allan McNish had a huge crash - he hit oil - in the Porsche Curves a few years ago in his Audi, he managed to drive the car back to the pits before jumping out and then collapsing. LMP cars are different beasts.
"A man of little significance"
The 1999 European Grand Prix at the Nürburgring. A first corner incident which occured when "Hill's Jordan suffered an electrical failure in the middle of the pack which caused Wurz to swerve into Dinez, sending the Sauber into a barrel roll. The safety car was deployed while Diniz was helped uninjured from his car; a fortunate end result as it was revealed that the Sauber's rollbar had failed when it hit the ground."
(Your memory is far better than mine - I had to google it.)
Well done for finding that, Pete!
It would be uncharitable to suggest that the only reason that Diniz was uninjured was that he landed on his head.
It will be interesting to see what the reaction of the FIA will be as a result of the incident at Spa. They generally react quite quickly (well, as quickly as possible, given the implications of regulation changes) when a potentially serious incident occurs. An example can be found if you look closely at any driver's helmet at the next Grand Prix, and you will notice that the top of the visor is reinforced. This came about following the accident to Felipe Massa in Hungary in 2009, when a spring fell from Rubens Barrichello's Brawn and pierced Massa's helmet just above the visor.
There's a case for some form of protection behind the wheels, to reduce the possibilities of tyre-to tyre contact. Although personally I would be more than disappointed if the cars end up looking like the abominations which now run in the American Indycar series.
Regards
Ian
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There have been tests on a forward roll bar structure that look promising.
i'm surprised nobody has picked this up, maldonado was directly infront of grosjean, by jumping the lights, he created the space allowing grosjean to move into space, causing the pile up, had he not jumped, i'm sure the result would have been different.
Anyone else see this or am i mad?
You're absolutely correct. Maldonado actually qualified third, but was given a three-place penalty, presumably for being Pastor Maldonado. Although the official reason was that impeded another driver during qualifying.
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how come he's not been involved in the investigation by the stewards? it's clear that he has directly caused this?
Maldonado, jump start may have influenced the outcome, but the crash was entirely Grosjean's fault - he could (and should) have given Hamilton room. Maldonado was not involved in the crash. You may as well blame the Stewards for moving him back three places on the grid.
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Are you thinking of this one? I don't think it would have saved Alonso from being hit from the side.
That's the one, Gordon. The structure itself works satisfactorily, but obscures so much of the driver's vision that it appears to be completely unusable.
And, in the case of Alonso's crash may have made the situation worse as it could have been either punched through the tub, or worse still the lateral impact could have ripped the front of the tub away, leaving the driver exposed to further impact. Ask Jonny Herbert how that feels.
Regards
Ian
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Got back yesterday from Spa. First time at a GP and really enjoyed it. Sat on the grass bank by the Kemmel Straight for the race. Had a Porsche overturn right by us during that race which was entertaining. Pity the crash in the main race perhaps spoilt the racing but Jenson looked on rails the whole time. It was baking hot for the race and pretty warm the quali day. At the end we managed to get on the track and walk down Eau Rouge which gave a good appreciation of just how steep it is.
Only slight downer was our trip was based in Brussels. The travel to and from the track took a fair while each day. Race day we left just after 7am and got in the track after 10:15 by which time there were already loads of people in place. So it was longer than the Eurostar from London to Brussels each way for two days! But we got some good beer sessions in Fri and Sunday nights.
Morning lads, I hope this is a case of better late than never! We only got back last night (after a detour to Lille and a stop over in London). Another fantastic trip, which I can't believe is over already :( I'll put some pictures up in the Monza thread over the weekend.
Reecie, we stayed in Brussels in 2010 and were bussed in everyday, but I wouldn't do it again. In fact on the Tuesday when we driving back to the UK, I couldn't believe how far Brussels is from Spa!! I think if you've got general admission tickets, you really need to stay more local so you can bag your spot early. We were at the track on race day at 8am last year and we were still too late!.
On the start crash, we've not watched the race on TV again yet, but seeing the it unfold in front of us and the subsequent replays on Fanvision, we really thought Fernando was hurt. Thank god it panned out the way it did. I like Grosjean a lot, but I think the ban's definitely deserved, probably the first time I can think for a long time where the stewards have got a penalty and punishment bang on. Maldonado could probably do with being parked the next time he does something stupid, although he probably should have been banned for a race after Spa quali last year or Monaco quali this year. That said, I find myself disagreeing with the grid penalty being applied for the jump start at the next race. It was a bit of shame that when Maldonado retired at Spa, the whole grandstand cheered, but on the pit walk about on Thursday he was really engaging and pleasant with the fans.
This probably deserves a thread of it's own, but yesterday's rumour of Lewis to Mercedes is an interesting one. Having been a massive Hamilton fan, I've more or less lost patience with his petulant behaviour, to the point where I'd rather see almost any other driver win. I think a move to Mercedes could go one of two ways; with the new engine formula in 2014 and Mercedes recent-ish tech appointments, potentially they could be the next Red Bull (there's a lot of similarities, such as change of ownership, management putting in place solid tech departments, strategy ect. and you'd have to say Mercedes winning in China actually puts them ahead of Red Bull in terms of how early success was achieved). But then compared to McLaren, who have won 16 races during that same period, it's a massive risk. Could almost be a repeat of the Rossi/Ducati marriage…but equally the making of a Schumacher/Ferrari partnership.
Ian, congrats on your retirement, this now means more trips to races :D
I think the FIA will look at some sort of bar running on either side of the driver's head, from the roll hoop (no air box from 2014 remember, so the cars will probably look like Champ Cars) to the front cockpit opening (or the front bulkhead, which ever is strongest). A bit like the Formula Vee style bars, although more high tech and functional!
But using bars instead of canopies still leaves drivers exposed to small debris like in the Massa incident. I know helmet tech is incredible these days, but it's still an vulnerable area.
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