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Thread: Chealwatch - "The Butcher of Rye"

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post

    I sympathise with the customers who've been messed about big-style, but it's a sad situation when someone has to be dragged through the courts over poor workmanship.

    Paul
    And it was completely avoidable if arrogance and ego was replaced with conscientious desire to do a good job rather than just take good money for shoddy work.

    Bear in mind I had extensive civilised and respectful conversations with Mr. Heal with regard to the very things you mentioned ; vintage watches specifically and the difficulties faced in repair and service . I was completely open to it taking necessary time and additional costs beyond a routine service and told him so.

    In the case of the watch which was returned to me it dates from 2005 and is an extremely popular and widely available model. So the reasons for that coming back ,from what was in that case a routine service , with an accepted associated larger charge for the fact it was a chronograph , with a problem relating specifically to the chronograph function would appear to have nothing to do with the practicalities of maintaining vintage or rare models.

    Factor in that it was then returned at my cost when it was immediately found to have this problem and was then returned with exactly the same problem once again.

    Also factor in that the person who I eventually sent it to for further repair (having lost all trust in Mr Heal) turned it around in 5 working days in superb condition having discovered and repaired numerous other issues with the watch that should have been readily apparent at the Chealwatch services. Although owing to their causal nature concerning the new problem the watch returned with from its initial service its highly likely they resulted from the Chealwatch service itself .

    I'd say its pretty much open and shut. My only decision is whether to also go after him for the subsequent remedial repair work that had to be undertaken which cost more than the initial service from Chealwatch. And any further devaluing of the watch as a result of course.
    Last edited by Mr.D; 27th November 2013 at 19:00.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post

    it's a sad situation when someone has to be dragged through the courts over poor workmanship.

    Paul
    It may be a sad situation - but it is more than necessary in some situations, and in certain lines of work it is the default option (unless a settlement is reached) when someones workmanship mistakes can cost lives.
    It's just a matter of time...

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I don`t think the BHI can be expected to police the standards of work produced by members. If someone passes their exams and achieves a qualification, that's as far as it goes. If they subsequently (many years later in this case) start producing dubious work, the BHI can`t be expected to intervene.
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Clearly, they could play a helpful role by getting involved in these disputes, but I suspect they don`t have the resources to do so. It also sounds like they're reluctant to get involved and it's possible they don`t want to upset members and lose numbers.
    Well, to be fair, the BHI offers a 'Problem Resolution Service', so they should be resourced to deal with complaints and certainly are, in effect, offering to intervene. See here: http://www.bhi.co.uk/repairers-register
    All our members are required to abide by our CODE OF PRACTICE. If you have difficulties with any aspect of the service you receive from a BHI Registered Repairer, you can use the Institute's Problem Resolution Service - we will try to help!
    (bold added by me)

    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    The only way to make a good income is to work quickly, with a high throughput of watches.
    If you're only doing the work personally but, as you observe, it is difficult to make much money this way. To grow one's business beyond what one can personally do requires taking on employees and/or subcontractors (which is true in many industries, not just watch making/repairing). From earlier threads about Chris Heal it seems he does subcontract out some work. When dealing with subcontractors it takes a considerable amount of management time to make sure they are meeting one's quality requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Sorting problems out takes time, tracking down replacement parts takes time, and time is money......that's where the temptation to bodge things comes in.
    Indeed, and this sort of thing is true in other industries too. It's all about good communications and expectation management, and good customer service when things go wrong (as they eventually must from time to time).

  4. #104
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    Actually I may be able to use my credit card company to force a refund.

  5. #105
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    Still the butcher of rye

    Hi this is my first time post

    I have just had my tag carrera cv2014 back from cheal watch and yes as all the other posts have said my watch is in a worse condition than when it was sent
    how can a man of 40 years experience put one of the hands on the chrono in the wrong position also chip the paint work on the large red hand and also either scratch or leave dirty marks on the main hands of the watch.Anyway rant over PLEASE don't send your watch to this man for repair as it will come back in a worse condition than how it was sent .
    I have reported him to sussex trading standards and yes he said send the watch back and he will look at it but thank god i found this forum.

    SO BE WARNED USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

  6. #106
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Welcome,

    Did you find this thread through a Google search, or did you register then master the search function, something that many with years of forum membership struggle with?

  7. #107
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    From the Chealwatch website

    'Recent compliments from our customers
    I will update this column each month.

    We have many comments to add to this section and we will update soon

    Watch this space'

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by shep View Post
    Hi this is my first time post

    I have just had my tag carrera cv2014 back from cheal watch and yes as all the other posts have said my watch is in a worse condition than when it was sent
    how can a man of 40 years experience put one of the hands on the chrono in the wrong position also chip the paint work on the large red hand and also either scratch or leave dirty marks on the main hands of the watch.Anyway rant over PLEASE don't send your watch to this man for repair as it will come back in a worse condition than how it was sent .
    I have reported him to sussex trading standards and yes he said send the watch back and he will look at it but thank god i found this forum.

    SO BE WARNED USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

  9. #109
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    Hi
    I found this website through google it's just shame i didn't do that before sending my watch to this complete butcher.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by shep View Post
    he said send the watch back and he will look at it
    Hi Shep, how did you get on with this in the end? Was it sorted out?

    Also wondered if anyone has any more recent experience with C Heal-good or (more likely, sadly) bad......?

  11. #111
    Did Mr.D go to court?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ventura View Post
    Did Mr.D go to court?
    Nope Mr.D went to Thailand and India to shoot movies.
    Too busy to bother with the butcher for that amount of money after I had calmed down.
    I was very amused when he tried to linkin to me 6 months later though.

    The BHI were zero help whatsoever.

  13. #113
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    I can't believe the butcher's still in business, frightening to learn that this is still going on and will continue to do so with no end in sight
    Last edited by MST; 12th August 2015 at 14:06.

  14. #114
    Hi there. First post. So glad I came across this thread. I came across the cheal website and found it very professional and informative so sent an enquiry to them.

    After reading this I won't be taking the enquiry further.

    Can anyone recommend any other recommended watch servicing/repair companies in the UK. Specifically Asian handwind movements.

    Apologies i haven't used the search function, because I don't know my way around this forum.

    Thanks.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    Hi there. First post. So glad I came across this thread. I came across the cheal website and found it very professional and informative so sent an enquiry to them.

    After reading this I won't be taking the enquiry further.

    Can anyone recommend any other recommended watch servicing/repair companies in the UK. Specifically Asian handwind movements.

    Apologies i haven't used the search function, because I don't know my way around this forum.

    Thanks.
    That's the idea, your most welcome

    What movement/watch specifically?

  16. #116
    It's a replica PAM with an Asian 6497 manual hand wind. Thanks.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    It's a replica PAM with an Asian 6497 manual hand wind. Thanks.


    Ermm..........right. I am sure a few on here will be able to recommend a local blacksmith or two for that.





    Mitch

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    It's a replica PAM with an Asian 6497 manual hand wind. Thanks.
    I have a large hammer and a big rock I could service that with for you!

    Appreciate you've just joined and don't know much about the forum but this isn't really somewhere we discuss fakes. Hopefully you'll stick around, gain some knowledge, and get yourself a nice watch instead. Some really good watches from many brands that can be had for the same money as a fake

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by SIB View Post
    I have a large hammer and a big rock I could service that with for you!

    Appreciate you've just joined and don't know much about the forum but this isn't really somewhere we discuss fakes. Hopefully you'll stick around, gain some knowledge, and get yourself a nice watch instead. Some really good watches from many brands that can be had for the same money as a fake
    Hi. Thanks for your note. I wasn't discussing my "fake" watch as you put it. I was answering the forum member's question. I could easily have put homage watch but I didn't. Sorry to go against the code of the forum.
    BTW I also own many nice genuine watches too. It was a bit presumptuous of you to assume I didn't.

  20. #120
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    Apologies if I offended, was just trying to be helpful. In my mind, replica and fake are interchangeable....a homage watch is different in it taking design elements from the watch it's based on as opposed to replica's and fakes which have the "copied" manufacturers name on the dial.

    You may find an indpendant watchmaker who would be willing to service the movement if it's indeed a homage. Few would touch a fake / replica though

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    Hi. Thanks for your note. I wasn't discussing my "fake" watch as you put it. I was answering the forum member's question. I could easily have put homage watch but I didn't. Sorry to go against the code of the forum.
    BTW I also own many nice genuine watches too. It was a bit presumptuous of you to assume I didn't.
    Welcome to the forum.

  22. #122
    Thanks. Nothing like a baptism of fire !!! Look forward to some banter with you guys.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    Thanks. Nothing like a baptism of fire !!! Look forward to some banter with you guys.
    As long as you can withstand a bit of criticism and friendly banter you'll find the forum a nice place and the people here rather friendly.

    Welcome!

  24. #124
    Thank you.

  25. #125
    Back on topic. My watch has been sitting on my desk at home all day fully wound and it has kept time now for a full 18 hours!! So it sounds like the fault is either an intermittent one or it only occurs when the watch is on my wrist; i.e. the fault is triggered by motion.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    Back on topic. My watch has been sitting on my desk at home all day fully wound and it has kept time now for a full 18 hours!! So it sounds like the fault is either an intermittent one or it only occurs when the watch is on my wrist; i.e. the fault is triggered by motion.
    First thing:
    I dare to doubt the materials used in an Asian 6497 clone and its longevity.
    Further, a service would most probably be more expensive than a new movement.
    Most watchmakers won't be willing to work on fakes, which will make finding a decent watchmaker to fix your watch a tough task.

    On top of that, if you succeed in doing so, you'll wind up with a watch that will be frowned upon by collectors and enthusiasts, as it is something that pretends to be something it is not.

    I would suggest you find something similar from Panerai, or from Magrette (depending on budget).

    Frankly, sending you to a watchmaker would be poor advice from a financial point of view as well as from a moral one.

  27. #127
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    OK, it's a fake/replica but it's his watch and someone will be prepared to service it, provided he doesn`t mind paying the going rate. Just because it's a cheap watch doesn`t make it cheaper to service; the time/work involved is the same as for anything. The only potential drawback is the quality of the movement; some are very roughly made and can cause headaches at service time. Parts availability is a problem and if parts are needed but can`t be sourced the watch ends up being scrap.....another good reason for not buying fakes.

    Paul

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    OK, it's a fake/replica but it's his watch and someone will be prepared to service it, provided he doesn`t mind paying the going rate. Just because it's a cheap watch doesn`t make it cheaper to service; the time/work involved is the same as for anything. The only potential drawback is the quality of the movement; some are very roughly made and can cause headaches at service time. Parts availability is a problem and if parts are needed but can`t be sourced the watch ends up being scrap.....another good reason for not buying fakes.

    Paul
    True.

    I do happen to have two (very basic) ETA 6497 laying around.
    If nuvolablue would like to buy one from me, that could solve the parts availability problem.

    However, he still would have a replica that many repairers wouldn't be willing to touch...

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    Nothing like a baptism of fire !
    Burn the watch with it.

  30. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    Burn the watch with it.
    It's one of the nicest watches I have ever owned. Please keep your nasty comments to yourself.

  31. #131
    Good news. Wore the watch while out for dinner and a movie last night and it kept perfect time. Didn't die on me. So perhaps it's an intermittent problem. Reminds me of when I used to own Alfa Romeo's......after a while you just get used to the Italian quirkiness - sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't!! Lol.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    Good news. Wore the watch while out for dinner and a movie last night and it kept perfect time. Didn't die on me. So perhaps it's an intermittent problem. Reminds me of when I used to own Alfa Romeo's......after a while you just get used to the Italian quirkiness - sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't!! Lol.
    Phew and there was me didn't sleep a wink, 😢

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    It's a replica PAM with an Asian 6497 manual hand wind. Thanks.
    Does it say Panerai on the dial or is it blank? If it doesn't then it is a homage and you can ignore the negative comments.

  34. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by thenikjones View Post
    Does it say Panerai on the dial or is it blank? If it doesn't then it is a homage and you can ignore the negative comments.
    it goes beyond that, if it uses the crown cam mechanism that's also trade marked

    the homages have to use the screw crowns as in the rad and 1940 case or something that looks like it but its the panerai crown mechanism

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpgkennedy View Post
    it goes beyond that, if it uses the crown cam mechanism that's also trade marked

    the homages have to use the screw crowns as in the rad and 1940 case or something that looks like it but its the panerai crown mechanism
    When was it trademarked? And is there no reference in any paper ever before of this system? if there is, the trademark doesn't stand. The only reason it hasn't been challenged is because it is so cumbersome that it is in effect a styling issue more than a functional one, and that styling is so closely associated with modern day Panerai that for a decnt brand to use it would play in Panerai's hands

  36. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    When was it trademarked? And is there no reference in any paper ever before of this system? if there is, the trademark doesn't stand. The only reason it hasn't been challenged is because it is so cumbersome that it is in effect a styling issue more than a functional one, and that styling is so closely associated with modern day Panerai that for a decnt brand to use it would play in Panerai's hands
    the trademark- its why all modern luminous have reg tm on it

    https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002162911

    and the patent

    http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publi...970159A1&KC=A1

    when it comes to sealing the watch after adjusting the time, i'd take it over a screw in crown any day

  37. #137
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    Chealwatch - "The Butcher of Rye"

    So the trademark and the patent are from 1998?
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvolablue View Post
    Thanks. Nothing like a baptism of fire !!! Look forward to some banter with you guys.
    Welcome! The best place to ask for advice on repair or servicing your replica is probably one of the replica forums. Unfortunately the mere mention is often enough to bring some of the contributors here out in a rash. Hope you can get it sorted.

  39. #139
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    I mistakenly sent an omega seamaster to Chealwatches for a service and polish.
    It came back first time looking very nice but ran even worse than when I first sent it.
    I contacted him via e mail and he told me to send it back. I asked for postage costs as it was his issue not mine.
    The watch came back the second time working well but the bracelet and watch had been all scratched up.
    I polished most of it out myself and sent him an e mail
    He ignored the e mail.
    I then rang him and I can honestly say the man is unbelievably arrogant and rude. I said I would post on the forums about his poor service and he said he would take me to court.
    Lets see.

    I consider I have had a lucky escape.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by s67 View Post
    I said I would post on the forums about his poor service and he said he would take me to court.
    On what grounds would he take you to court? Some people...

  41. #141
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    On the homepage under 'Recent compliments from our customers', it says: 'We have many comments to add to this section and we will update soon.' And then 'Watch this space.' And then nothing.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by asteclaru View Post
    On what grounds would he take you to court? Some people...
    Presumably defamation, but it's probably just bluster...

    M.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Presumably defamation, but it's probably just bluster...

    M.
    That was m first thought as well, but would it still be defamation if you could prove that you're telling the truth? Probably just bluster, as you well put it

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by asteclaru View Post
    That was m first thought as well, but would it still be defamation if you could prove that you're telling the truth? Probably just bluster, as you well put it
    No indeed, if you merely stated the truth he'd be throwing good money after bad!

    On the other hand, that was presumably his argument, that it was all untrue...

    You can't really take someone to court for something they didn't do (well, you can, but you can't expect to win if you can't prove the did it - Which is why the Americans have Guantanamo Bay!)

    M.

  45. #145
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    Send a watch to CH and rue the day.


  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeOut View Post
    Send a watch to CH and rue the day.

    Now, I don't know much about watches in general and next to nothing on how to repair any, but I'm pretty sure that's not the way to do it...

    It's painful to watch him

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by asteclaru View Post
    It's painful to watch him
    +1......Exactly what I was thinking. As soon as you go near the thing with a hard metal tool, it's going to get marked up to high heaven. I have aluminium and hard plastic tools that I use. I`ve also used a crystal lifter with brass legs on other watches but not on a SMP.

    These bezels can be difficult to remove and a fair bit of force can be required. The trick is to ALWAYS twist the bezel whilst exerting leverage or pulling upwards. This allows the bezel spring to ride out of it's groove. Pulling or levering without rotation can cause the spring to get jammed, chewing up the case.

    Paul
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 17th November 2015 at 15:52.

  48. #148
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    It's almost as though the bezel wasn't designed to be removed using a butter knife.

    Still, great job on aligning the insert! :)

  49. #149
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    Talk about a video nasty.

    Horrific.

  50. #150
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    No wonder he lost a couple of fingers, cack-handed sod

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