Reply With QuoteI think 10 seconds a day is within the tolerances, but all the ETA movements I have had are about that every few days, I personally would take it back for regulating.
I have a Ball Engineer Master II TMT that I was delighted to get last month. Overall I'm very pleased with the watch and it's mostly lived up to my expectations, which were high considering that I've wanted one for 3 years! Having looked on tinterweb I note that the watch has a Ball Caliber 9018 movement, which I believe is based on an ETA2892-A2? Having set the watch roughly 10 days ago I notice that its gained approximately 10 seconds per day over this period. I hoped somebody could help with the following please:
1. What are the timekeeping standards for COSC certification?
2. How do I know if this watch has this certification?
3. Is this a reasonable accuracy?
4. If I took it back to the shop it was purchased from could I ask them to regulate it as part of the warranty, or would they think I was being overly demanding?
Many thanks in advance. I intend to get some photos of it today and will post them up later for anyone who may be interested. Cheers!
I think 10 seconds a day is within the tolerances, but all the ETA movements I have had are about that every few days, I personally would take it back for regulating.
Needs regulating - I'd expect 2-3 seconds per day maximum.
Probably worth getting regulating if you are going to wear it a lot imho. I think you would know about it if it was cosc rated - it would say 'cerfified chronometer' or somesuch on the dial or caseback. The swiss watch industry is not one to hide its light under a bushel!!
Tim
COSC standard is the range between -4 and +6 seconds. Normally I believe that Ball Watches have Chronometer on the front if it is to that standard. If you bought the watch new, I would expect to wear it for on a regular basis for about three months, to give the watch time to bed in, before thinking of having it regulated.
+1, it is early days, use it for a couple of months first, see what it is averaging after this time, and take it back for regulating if not within the COSC figures above.Originally Posted by JustaHunch
Sounds like it needs regulating, my SubC gains only 1 second a week!
Thanks, I'd not even considered this! I believe that the watch was originally released in 2006 so it may have been sat for 6 years!
Ball watches use RR standard that is similar to COSC and gaining +10 sec/day is too much.
I have 5 years old Tissot LeLocle with similar movement that is +3 sec/day without ever being serviced :)
Just have it regulated and it should be ok (especially if the watc arrived by mail)
I don't understand this "bedding in period" people speak? if the watch was tested in the factory to run to COSC or similar why the need to wear them to bed in, as they should be at COSC from day 1?
I would say 10 secs is too much, my 40 year old Omega is +2 secs a day.
Not sure if you need to be wearing your watch 24/7 to achieve the correct rate?
Think I will test off the wrist too as the 2 secs is achieved on the wrist.
How is the watch positioned at night when off the wrist. I believe its recommended to position the watch vertically with crown up to slow it down a little. Might be worth a try before regulating if you've not tried it already.
:shock:
For a watch not COSC rated it is within spec, which I am sure is 8-10 seconds for top, isn't it?
It's just a matter of time...
Putting the watch on a timing machine will reveal what it's really doing, and show what it's positional errors are like.
Assuming it's been bought new, I think this is a tad excessive and I`d want to see it below 6 secs/day, preferrably 2-3 secs.
It may be a simple case of minor regulation required, but the figures from a timing machine would show this. In this day and age, ADs should have access to such machines but they don`t.
Paul
ETA 2892*
To illustrate the differences in accuracy garnered by the successive grades, consider the following specifications:
the Elaborated grade is adjusted in four positions with an average rate of +/-5 seconds/day, with a maximum daily variation of +/-20 seconds/day;
the Top grade is adjusted in five positions with an average rate of +/-4 seconds/day, with a maximum daily variation of +/-15 seconds/day.
The Chronometer grade must meet strict standards prescribed by the COSC: an average rate of -4/+6 with a maximum daily variation of +/-5 seconds/day.
So, unless the OP's watch is a certified chronometer, it is performing within the tolerance.
*According to wikipedia - believe it or not...
my LV used to gain 1 second per week, 5 years later it gains 6 seconds per day - but as it is consistently +6 I'm not concerned - I will get it serviced soon. In my experience timekeeping wanders over a couple of years, but even a gain of 10 secs a day is pretty good. Sadly for the world of horology you can now get a Casio for £50 that won't gain a second a year.
Following on from the time keeping query I also wonder what the power reserve should be? I took the watch off yesterday evening and by 3pm today (less than 24 hours) it had stopped. Is that normal? I'd worn it all week so it should have been fully charged!
wearing it all week is no guarantee the PR will be full, the only way to be sure is give it a manual wind and make sure you wind to the max, then leave of the wrist to test the PR, 24 hours sounds far too low, I would expect somewhere around 40 hours.
I used to have an IWC with a 2892 A2, and it ran pretty much spot-on, about a second a week (at most). Gave it to my elder son for his 18th, and it is still performing extremely well.
Yes it is.recently queried a Tag Heuer Carrera that was running at + 10 seconds a day and was advised that this was within tolerance.Had it regulated though and now at + 2 a day
Tony
IMHO, your watch is up for a full clean and lube job soon, say within the next year or so. I'd leave it as-is till then, and keep my crossed screwdrivers or long-nosed pliers away from the back, and put the toothpick back in the jar ;-)
As far as "bedding" or "running in" is concerned - the benefit is moot, unlike that gained by rings in a car engine.
A rule of thumb is 8 hours on the wrist 30 hours off the wrist. If it under performs then there is something wrong with the movement and it might need servicing. If the watch was made 6 years ago (do you have original receipt etc to check?) then there's a good chance it needs oiling and regulating.
The OP's info isn`t clear re. the power reserve. If it's only running for 24hrs following a day's wear it isn`t right. This is a separate problem to the +10secs/day gain.
The watch really needs to be put on a timer to check the amplitude. this will determine whether it needs servicing. If the amplitude's good a small correction to regulate it should be OK.
If the power reserve is poor this suggests that the auto-winding isn`t working correctly. On these, the fault is usually caused by the reverser not working correctly, which can be caused by incorrect lubrication. Not difficult to sort out if the watch gets a full service.
A 2892 in good condition should give around 290° amplitude in the flat positions, anything below 230° is an indication that the watch needs servicing. If it's down below 200° it definitely needs a service.
These movements usually respond well to a thorough service. A strip-down, clean and re-oil works wonders. My favorite movement to work on.
As for bedding in, forget it. This happens over the first 12-24 hrs running after reassembly in my experience.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 6th August 2012 at 00:38.
So having done absolutely nothing to the watch, and continued to wear it every day and leave it in the same position at night, it now runs at a maximum of +1sec/day. Any ideas? The suggestion that a watch needs to bed in is starting to appear to be correct!?
Imo the only time a watch needs to bed in is when it's been unused for a while, so the lubricants/oils are redistributed evenly
It is possible the position you leave it in overnight loses time so overall you are getting better daily rate.
Always worth a read......
tested over 16 days consecutive days in different positions. We actually don't move as much as we think when wearing our watches and expect them to comply...
http://www.cosc.ch/chronometre2.php?lang=en
http://www.cosc.ch/popmecaniquetableau.php?lang=en
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