Reply With QuoteI don't like the other two, but that Seventies is fantastic.
And I like the Sport Evolution as well.
Thanks for posting.
Ian
I should be working today, but I've ended up doing a bit of a Glashutte comparison.
GO are currently probably my favourite brand. It's possibly because (even though they're part of Swatch) they're slightly out-there - being German, and making relatively unusual pieces at decent(ish) prices. I've been aware of them for a while, but admittedly not really getting some of the designs at first. I think browsing Jocke's website probably taught me to appreciate the beauty of them, and they seem to come up in discussion on watch talk regularly - and as Tony said recently, it has turned into a bit of a lovefest.
The other problem is that it is also relatively difficult to see them in the flesh - especially outside London. (I really don't like buying unseen). Annoyingly, I missed a PML on SC early in the year, but I really only got to see a decent selection of GO's since then (after a fair bit of driving around, and a trip to the US).
The final complication in the GO experience was that the Pano range has been revamped for 2012, with new dials and new cases with a thin bezel. IMO the bezel in particular changes the character of the Pano. It makes it look more delicate, dressy and formal - especially compared with the grey dial XL version.
First up was the Panoinverse. It's not so much a watch, as a piece of art/curiosity/folly etc. GO are really just showing off what they can do. The twin swan-neck is one of their specialities, so why not put it on the front of the watch? Instead of making a hole in the dial to show it off, why not forgo the dial (almost) completely? If you're going to do this, you have to make sure all the internals are pretty to look at, so the jewels are on view, the plates are ruthenium(?) coated and striped, which then makes the jewels stand out beautifully. All labelling is etched into the plates, and a simple power reserve balances out the "dial".
The case is lovely - large diameter, but thin (thinner than the Panomatics). There's a nice selection of brushed/polished surfaces, creating an overall quality case that still lets the star of the show, the face, shine. The outgoing Panoinverse is IMO the easiest to chose between old vs new - the thinner bezel on the new one simply looks wrong. There's too much of a gap between the regulator and the case edge, and the already small "face" looks lost on the larger dial. I'm 100% happy with my choice in this respect.
The new version -just not right IMO.
I thus had to find an "old" PI before the replacement came in. As seems to be the case with brokers, they will tend to advertise a good price for a watch, but it is really only a pre-agreed price with their source. I do not have an issue with this (as there is a justifiable cost of holding stock), but it meant that some of the watches advertised on e.g. Chrono24 were not really available. Luckily I found a watch in good old Blighty (Hugh Rice, Michael - great to deal with BTW). Job done.
The icing on the cake with the PI is the nubuck aligator strap. It's got a lovely charcoal-like quality to it, and the clasp really is fantastic. Jocke did some pics to illustrate this IIRC, and it adds to the over-engineered feel of the watch, resulting in a very securely fitting strap.
The only real question is, where does the PI fit into everyday wear? It's not really very practical to wear for work (no date, not particularly good legibility), it's certainly not a sports watch, it's more of a going out for meals/special occasion type of piece. This I think is very apt though - if you're going to have an indulgence in your collection, then why not have something that is genuinely unusual and fascinating. (I would view a skeleton watch to be the same BTW).
Now, a Panomaticlunar was the watch that I originally wanted. I was initially taken by the silver dial regular PML (like the one Jocke has, and the one that scarto had on SC). It was the movement that caught my eye first - the beautifully decorated 3/4 plate, with the small-size rotor, leaving the double swan neck visible underneath, is simply stunning - it's a beautiful movement at any price, but in this bracket, I can't think of any better. The asymmetrical dial kind of grew on me. There is a balance to it, especially with the panorama date being of decent size - it's really quite well-judged. I would also add that the large date implementation is very neat - even compared to other esteemed brand's versions.
Where I could not decide was between the regular, the XL, and the new "mid" versions - as well as their corresponding dial options. With the outgoing PML there was only really the silver regular and the grey XL. The former is definitely dressy that would make it a workday watch, the latter is more of a hybrid. My wrists are small/medium, so either option works for me in terms of size - those with very small or large wrists would find they had to pick the appropriate size. The fact that the grey dial comes on a nubuck strap was also influential. (I'm not sure the silver dial would look right on nubuck anyway). I preferred the indicators on the regular, with the XL having slightly oversized "12" and quite reflective hour markers.
The upcoming PML complicated matters further. They have changed the dial proportions, and made the indicators more subtle, the silver dial version getting gorgeous blued hands that compliment the moonphase dial perfectly. The new 40mm case size is very well-judged as it appears to result in nice compromise between the outgoing regular and XL. Unfortunately, these watches have yet to appear at any of the AD's I've been to, and I've quoted the delivery time of late summer/early autumn.
Unseen, it's hard to chose between the old silver, grey XL, and either new PML - the truth is that they all are just different flavours of the same watch, subtly biased in terms of dressi/sportiness, and all looking the same from behind (insert you own joke here). The old regular PML is a great compromise, the XL is more sporty, the new are both quite dressy. If I could build my own PML, I'd be tempted to have the XL with the new dial! (Interestingly, the new rose gold, silver dial, with a brown nubuck strap looks very nice).
The new version
The problem was exacerbated by the fact that when one watch is being phased out, and it's replacement phased in, it is not necessarily possible to compare all your options directly. In-stock watches were also rare - the usual issue with brokers surfaced - they couldn't get the old models, but the newer models had an autumn delivery time. Needless to say, I couldn't wait for the new model and bought a PML XL.
In terms of case and strap, all that applies to the PI applies to PML XL; quality is very IWC-like - not delicate, but very well put-together, with a nice collection of brushed/polished surfaces. It's slightly thicker than the PI, but still very manageable, and again, the strap/clasp are superb. The dial really is lovely - it's got a definite matt-grey quality under most light conditions, with the subdials subtly textured, making legibilty excellent. The moonphase and date really balance out the dial nicely, and the hour markers (which I was not sure about) actually blend pretty well (in reality,as opposed to macro photos that exaggerate the size). The display-back shows-off that beatuiful movement every bit as well as I expected.
Again, how does this fit into a collection? As the case is about 1.5mm thicker than the PI - this makes quite a difference to the way the watch wears - it becomes that bit more chunky on the wrist, and although it fits under a shirt cuff ok, it's quite bulky. Although many would call the PML a dress watch, I actually think it's more of a hybrid, short of actually playing sports in it, it seems pretty much at home in most non-strenuous situations. This is partly what swayed me towards the grey XL, as I didn't really intend to wear it solely with a suit. It's just as apropriate with jeans and t-shirt as it is dressed up.
The other GO that was vying for my attention was the Seventies Panorama. Again I'd only seen pictures of this, but they were enough to pique my interest. I love the Nautilus and Royal Oak, but GO's reinterpretation of these designs, at a much more acceptable price was too much to resist. The usual problem was the inability to see them in person. Luckily all three versions were available in Las Vegas. As ever, there was the dilemma about which dial to chose - the white is a mother-of-pearl finish, whereas the sunburst effect of the grey and blue versions was much more striking. The latter were much more appealing, not-to-mention almost a signature feature of the Seventies, so quickly decided to chose between the blue and grey. This was another difficult choice; there's no doubt that the blue has the most impact, but I think it will almost be too much for some - it's verging on violet in some light conditions. The grey is still interesting, and varies almost as much, but it almost underplays the sunburst effect IMO. Truth is, I don't think you can go wrong with either. It's purely personal preference, but I went with the blue - partly because I don't currently have any blue dialed watches.
The basic design is very impressive. This is a very substantial watch - the case really does seem very solid, even by GO standards. The crystal is flat, and almost invisible, leaving the dial to play tricks with the light that will keep you amused for hours. The effect varies from a very deep (almost upper-atmosphere-like) dark blue, to a dazzling violet, depending on what is shining on it. It really is quite beguiling. The hour markers are subtle in comparison, and the panorama date again is superbly excecuted.
The movement is a much simpler beast than the Pano's, but is a tried-and-tested inhouse design.
The bracelet has particularly impressed me. It is extremely solid, and feels very secure. The link pattern adds interest, and the microadjustment on the clasp is easy to use and effective. It is apparently very similar to the newer IWC's, and I would say overall the Seventies again feels very IWC-like in quality.
The Seventies is certainly a watch that wears big. It's not particularly thick (at 11.5mm), and nominally it is 40mm, but as a square, it's quite a large watch on the wrist. Very small wrist certainly couldn't get away with it, and at first I did think it was possibly a bit big for me. It has settled now, and it's one of those designs that is meant to look big IMO. What is does mean though is that, unless you've got really big wrists, it again probably fits into the sports/casual category rather than formal wear. Conversely, if you have got big wrists, then the relatively thin case would make it a great work watch.
Value-for-money can be debated ad infinitum, particularly as it is all relative with todays high prices. The RRP's are approx. £9k-ish for the PI, £8k-ish for the PML and £7.5k-ish for the Seventies. Even at these prices, you are getting a lot of watch for your money, but at used prices - if you can find one - they are outstanding. Of course there are other watches that will give you similar bang-for-the-buck (e.g. Nomos arguably more so), but GO tick a lot more of the WIS boxes than some more traditional choices IMO.
I don't like the other two, but that Seventies is fantastic.
And I like the Sport Evolution as well.
Thanks for posting.
Ian
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Wow, that was a great read Rob, thanks for taking the time....
Seventies all the way for me, looks a cut above 8) . Hadn't realised the list was quite so high though - at that price point I'd be looking more at a used AP RO I think.
I'd be very happy to have any one of those in my collection; better yet would be to have all three!
I love the PanoInverse, but part of me wonders would I get tired of it after a few years? I also wonder is it the sort of watch that might be perceived as being a bit flash? I would be slightly concerned about wearing it to a meeting with a client.
I also love the PanomaticLunar XL. I agree with you that my ideal would be the new dial in the old 42mm case. I have 7.75" wrists, and 42mm watches generally look a better size on me than 40mm watches. I am seriously considering a Lunar XL as my next purchase though. The only concern I have is whether a small part of me would look at the watch and think that it's just a wannabe Lange & Sohne?
Also love the Seventies Senator, but I think of the three, it would get the least wear from me.
So, with some hesitation, I've voted for the Lunar XL.
Three very beautiful watches, and you're very fortunate to have them in your collection!
A very good read :)
Thankyou for taking the time to post this evaluation, very enjoyable for a Monday morning.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Well I love the PanoInverse, but there's something missing from your collection :)
simon
If the Seventies had been grey I think that might have tipped it for me but of your collection I've gone with the PML. The only one I don't "get" is the PI but I just don't like to see the movement on or through the dial.
Fantastic post! I like them all, except that pano inverse...
What prices are good for a second hand '70 s GO?
Nice little trio there, Rob - funny, isn't it, how GO has gathered momentum on here over the last few weeks...
As you'll recall, I was originally looking for a PanomaticLunar, and coincidentally posted subsequently about the Seventies too; however, my vote goes to the PL although the PI is definitely the most unusual (and dare I say "stunning") of the watches in question.
For my part, I don't feel that I've settled at all with the PanomaticVenue as it has a complication that I value highly - and use a lot - within a rather beautiful package. I'm still tempted by the PL, but don't anticipate ever owning two that would be so similar and may have to make a decision in that respect at some point in the future. Enjoy all of yours, though :)
Great post. Must admit the seventies panorama gets my vote. Really like the simplicity of that one.
regards,
Nick
A great post - lovely watches. Have always liked GO and been tempted on a number of occasions. The challneg is that they're potentially that little bit too smart for me.
All three of those are nice. I think my favourite is the Lunar, followed by the 70s, with the Inverse following - really because it's too fussy.
Enjoy :mrgreen:
Can't answer the poll because I
Love all the options...
great read & pictures.. I voted for the Lunar but I really like the Seventies as well ... I only have a Sport Evo but it has hardly been off my wrist since picking it up in Feburary - still really pleased I got myself one...
Thanks for the comments!
Despite the fact it's been out for well over a year, there really don't seem to be that many around, even on the watch forums. I don't think I've seen a used one, and Chrono24 has surprising few. There seem to be some US grey sourced ones on there for about £5.5k - some are "on request", so I presume they don't have the watch, and the usual import-related hassles apply. The European-based dealer sites don't seem to offer them. Maybe they're selling well in Germany? It's probably just a matter of time until they filter through. I don't think there's ever going to be too many in the UK though.Originally Posted by Time Cat
Yes, I like these as well.
I voted seventies for me! Mainly for the AP/PP details but the PML is a lovely thing too.
Seventies for me as as a watch to wear and enjoy rather than admire, but I do love all of them. The design is very cool indeed and the bracelet looks amazing. The quality of these watches stands out.
Great post and pics, and really tough choice, but for me it would have to be the PML - i think it's just beautiful, but not too smart that you couldn't wear it every day!
panoinverse for me but seems to be the least favourite on the poll, great pics and thread.
I must admit to preferring the, more conventional, Sport Evo series, which I have. However I like the unusual 'lunars'.....a bit strong for my wallet tho'.?.. :(
I'm absolutely loving the new Panomatic Lunar white dial with the blue hands. Absolutely stunning! Hopefully I can see one at an AD in the next few months.
+1 :thumbright:
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I have lusted after an Inverso ever since a gold XL version was on SC a year or so ago, and I very nearly traded in bodily parts to get it.
I want to love the PML. But I can't. I just cannot cope with the word "Moonphase" being next to the.... wait for it.... Moonphase.
I mean, really????
Utterly divine watches, really they are, but seriously, WTF made them do that???
Nice watches and pictures.
I prefer the PML. Particularly the first version, esp on the old style 7 links bracelet that matches the brushed case perfectly.
Best,
Goh
That's really nice - that particular bracelet gives the watch a very different character to either the newer bracelet or strap. I think that is probably one of the best combos if you want it as a dressy watch.Nice watches and pictures.
I prefer the PML. Particularly the first version, esp on the old style 7 links bracelet that matches the brushed case perfectly.
Best,
Goh
good point, the Panoramadatum is unnecesary as well... I would still love one though :)
good point, the Panoramadatum is unnecesary as well... I would still love one though :)
They have a bit of a habit with superfluous text. Doesn't put me off, though I would rather they didn't.
They don't do it on all models.
I just bought a Calendar Week (one of their Art/Technic range) won't have it for a few weeks, hence the library photo.
No random text on the dial.
Hmm. Delicious. :sunny:
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Have you seen what they did to the 100 caliber in the calendar week, finishing with in total 475 parts in 71 jewels! Including centrifugal brake, like in a minute repeater!Hmm. Delicious. :sunny:
WOW, what a trio! If i have the choice to decide just one of them, my heart would said PanoInverse, but my mind PanoMaticLunar. Seventies is just not my style, but a phenomenal watch nevertheless. I wouldn't say that PanoInverse is too much for everyday watch. It has some sporty feel to it, of course it's dressy, and just look at that dial :o
Hmmm.... yes I am also starting to like the Glashuttes - have been looking at some ex-display ones here... http://www.fitzroviawatches.co.uk/Latest%20Watches/
Yes, I spotted these on chrono24. The Senator Perpetuals are cracking watches - the RG especially. They are the outgoing version, but in some ways the simpler dial without the Roman numerals looks cleaner. At approx 30% off, they're a bit of a bargain.
Great trio of watches you have there! My favourite is the PanoInverse, it looks fantastic.
Really great thread & thanks for taking the time to share. I voted for the PML as I could only have one, but if I was lucky enough to be able to have three, well I would just copy & paste...
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