Fake Britain

[luddite]

Dominic Littlewood does sterling service on his program exposing fake goods and services.

Fakes are confiscated from traders and destroyed, but what is the law regarding fakes owned by the public?

Can fake Rolex watches, probably the most faked brand, be seized from members of the public and destroyed?

I'm not asking if fakes are immoral, but about the legal position regarding what is private property.

[mylofitz]

I complained to the Manager of a charity shop selling a fake Breitling for £150. Since they were advertising it as a fake they believed they were acting within the law. Would like the answer to this one as well.

[bobbymonks]

not illegal to buy and own. (although why would you? and that's a different discussion)
It is illegal to produce, distribute, sell

[Chinnock]

I complained to the Manager of a charity shop selling a fake Breitling for £150. Since they were advertising it as a fake they believed they were acting within the law. Would like the answer to this one as well.

Illegal and rightly out of order.

[luddite]

The reason that I'm curious is that I've heard that Rolex dealers have instructions to destroy any fakes that come into their dealership.

I can just imagine the reactions of some tattoed, pierced, neanderthal when his bling goes under the hammer. :D

[Rev-O]

The reason that I'm curious is that I've heard that Rolex dealers have instructions to destroy any fakes that come into their dealership.

I can just imagine the reactions of some tattoed, pierced, neanderthal when his bling goes under the hammer. :D

Not all Rolex owners sell their watches at auction you know.

[Omegamanic]

The reason that I'm curious is that I've heard that Rolex dealers have instructions to destroy any fakes that come into their dealership.

I can just imagine the reactions of some tattoed, pierced, neanderthal when his bling goes under the hammer. :D

Unfortunately, it is not illegal in the UK to own fake goods - it is illegal to sell the in any way though, so charity shops should be careful!

In other countries the goods will be seized and I believe you may be liable to a fine - something needs to be done.

The AD's would not have the right to take the fake goods - plus the AD is not the brand, so they really have little power - however, if they ask for the fake goods and they are handed over then I guess they can do what they like - they would just need to be careful how they went about it.

[WatchScout]

Unfortunately, it is not illegal in the UK to own fake goods - it is illegal to sell the in any way though, so charity shops should be careful!

In other countries the goods will be seized and I believe you may be liable to a fine - something needs to be done.

The AD's would not have the right to take the fake goods - plus the AD is not the brand, so they really have little power - however, if they ask for the fake goods and they are handed over then I guess they can do what they like - they would just need to be careful how they went about it.

Strange, that the fakes are not simply outlawed 100% - it should be illegal to also own fakes, as you imply.

But what is needed is a mentality change; in certain groups it has some how become accepted to wear, own and even brag about having a fake watch.

"It will not hurt the manufacturers of genuine watches, blah, blah, blah" and so on and so forth. Or rather 'gen' watches, as they call them. Subconsciously the wearers of fakes use the terms 'gens' and 'reps.' They avoid to use the term 'fake.' That speaks volumes IMO.

Considering what the cost of the fakes are for the poor pople who makes them in sweatshops, and other negative impact, they should rightly be outlawed to own (check some of the old threads here - the negative implications of the fakes are not to be ignored).

But as long, as we do not think it is too bad to own a fake, that will not happen.

Some of the fake wearing pond scum has even sifted over to this site and have been bragging about owning fakes and even showing them off.

Just a matter of time, before someone buys a fake off SC....ohh wait, that has already happened!

Fake watches are not really what we are here for IMO*



* I think it is fine when forum members draw attention to a fake and those threads about distinguishing about fake and real Omegas etc, which we have seen in the past, are also fine with me. More power to those who 'out' the fake people wearing (and making) fakes.

What is not needed is a forum for fakes. There are plenty of those out there. IMO we are here to enjoy genuine (the word is genuine - not 'gen') watches instead of fakes.

[JeremyO]

I recall a notice in a French Railway station stating that it is illegal to own a fake and, if found, this will be confiscated and the owner subject to a huge fine.

Guess the French Authorities are very protective of luxury brands.

[kevkojak]

The reason that I'm curious is that I've heard that Rolex dealers have instructions to destroy any fakes that come into their dealership.

I can just imagine the reactions of some tattoed, pierced, neanderthal when his bling goes under the hammer. :D

I've heard of Rolex removing the logos from fake and franken watches that find their way to them (with a sharp knife and a sander!), but never destroying/retaining a watch.
AD's are a different story, just send the owner away with their tail between their legs.

[robcuk]

I recall a notice in a French Railway stating that it is illegal to own a fake and, if found, this will be confiscated and the owner subject to a huge fine.

Guess the French Authorities are very protective of luxury brands.

Italy has the same rule, there it is also illeagal to buy or even simply to possess a fake.

[blackal]

I recall a notice in a French Railway stating that it is illegal to own a fake and, if found, this will be confiscated and the owner subject to a huge fine.

Guess the French Authorities are very protective of luxury brands.

Italy has the same rule, there it is also illeagal to buy or even simply to possess a fake.

Doesn't apply to breasts, though :lol:

[loqv75]

When I was young (before 3 years I think) I have paid to Rolex 400€ it's because of the Belgian Customs caught a stupid 30$ Rosex.. and destroyed it. Good experience. And I surprised to know that is not a problem in the UK to Buy fake and pass the customs etc

[Beau]

I recall a notice in a French Railway stating that it is illegal to own a fake and, if found, this will be confiscated and the owner subject to a huge fine.

Guess the French Authorities are very protective of luxury brands.

Italy has the same rule, there it is also illeagal to buy or even simply to possess a fake.

one assumes these laws are not rigourously enforced as I have seen many North Africans openly selling fakes in public in both countries...

[a-new-hope]

The reason that I'm curious is that I've heard that Rolex dealers have instructions to destroy any fakes that come into their dealership.

I can just imagine the reactions of some tattoed, pierced, neanderthal when his bling goes under the hammer. :D

cos all heavily tattooed people are like that arnt they....... :roll:

[markrlondon]

The reason that I'm curious is that I've heard that Rolex dealers have instructions to destroy any fakes that come into their dealership.

Urgan legend at least as far as the UK is concerned.

I'd love to hear of any first person account of it occurring in the UK. It just doesn't happen in the UK.

There is no legal right for an AD or the manufacturer (or anyone in general) to seize someone else's propertly (regardless of whether or not it is 'fake') without being given permission by the property owner to do so.

And quite right too in my view! Property is property and thus should be respected, regardless of whether or not it is 'genuine' as defined by someone.

[markrlondon]

In other countries the goods will be seized and I believe you may be liable to a fine - something needs to be done.

I think the UK has it right (for once). Morally speaking it is manufacturing and selling thaty is wrong, not owning.

[shadowman]

I'm aware that AC Schnitzer alloy wheel makers take great delight in having 'replicas' publically crushed having had them seized via customs, i assume in Germany.

[malawimatt]

Having just come back from Tenerife, it shocked me the amount of fakes being openly sold. TBH when i was in my young teens it was probably buying a fake watch or two on holiday which gave me the bug but having not been for a lot of years (now 30) i was staggered by the amount of looky looky men coming up to me in restaurants and the street, seemingly because i had a nice watch on. €10 bought you a very ropey plastically breitling and lots of different horrible watches pitched purely for the Rolex logo. What fascinated me was that they seem to have developed from local people doing it for a living to far more English characters who were more hard-line and would want €100 for a AP Roo which wasn't half bad as it happens. They had ranges of watchs in different bands! Still can't believe they weren't constantly in custody!

I would hate to see this in Britain, i agree with what has been said about our laws.

[Omegamanic]

In other countries the goods will be seized and I believe you may be liable to a fine - something needs to be done.

I think the UK has it right (for once). Morally speaking it is manufacturing and selling thaty is wrong, not owning.

To an extent - but that in itself creates a demand and an outlet for that demand. In affect you are entering into a money-laundering scenario and surely you are an accessory to a crime? This is a debate we had on companies that provide hostage insurance - under all crimes you would be contributing funds which would become the proceeds of crime.

Of course you may not have bought the fake goods - but lets face it most are bought by the user/wearer.

[luddite]

The reason that I'm curious is that I've heard that Rolex dealers have instructions to destroy any fakes that come into their dealership.

I can just imagine the reactions of some tattoed, pierced, neanderthal when his bling goes under the hammer. :D

cos all heavily tattooed people are like that arnt they....... :roll:

If you say so. :blackeye:

Usual disclaimer re having relatives and friends who have one or the other or both in one case. :lol:

[TomGW]

Surely a huge part of the problem is defining what is a fake in the first place??
I understand that a Rolex with any non-OEM part, even a bezel insert, will not be serviced / repaired by Rolex. Similarly a 'franken', constructed wholly with genuine OEM parts. Then you have a steady decline through various cobbled together watches, using OEM and generic parts, to the out-and-out fakes.
I once had a Breitling Navitimer that had been water damaged and a local watch repairer replaced the (bog standard, unsigned, undecorated) 7750 movement with a regular, unsigned, undecorated ETA 7750. He swapped over the signed rotor (the one with BREITLING in block caps) but failed to swap the datewheel. Breitling refused to touch it and replace the datewheel with the correct style, because my watch was deemed to be 'fake'.
If we extended this mentality into historic rally cars there wouldn't be a single example with race history that would pass the test.
Of course it's correct to make the manufacture, distribution and sale of fakes illegal, but while the sale of non-OEM parts remains legal the possession of a dodgy watch cannot be illegal in itself.

[Omegamanic]

If we extended this mentality into historic rally cars there wouldn't be a single example with race history that would pass the test.

Yes - but isn't there something like 3 cars claiming to be a famous Le-Mans winner - one with the engine and gearbox, one with the chassis and another the rebuilt body?

[Omegamanic]

Surely a huge part of the problem is defining what is a fake in the first place??
I understand that a Rolex with any non-OEM part, even a bezel insert, will not be serviced / repaired by Rolex. Similarly a 'franken', constructed wholly with genuine OEM parts. Then you have a steady decline through various cobbled together watches, using OEM and generic parts, to the out-and-out fakes.
I once had a Breitling Navitimer that had been water damaged and a local watch repairer replaced the (bog standard, unsigned, undecorated) 7750 movement with a regular, unsigned, undecorated ETA 7750. He swapped over the signed rotor (the one with BREITLING in block caps) but failed to swap the datewheel. Breitling refused to touch it and replace the datewheel with the correct style, because my watch was deemed to be 'fake'.
If we extended this mentality into historic rally cars there wouldn't be a single example with race history that would pass the test.
Of course it's correct to make the manufacture, distribution and sale of fakes illegal, but while the sale of non-OEM parts remains legal the possession of a dodgy watch cannot be illegal in itself.

Rolex will service your watch, as long as you agree to bear the cost and they will put your watch back to standard - if it is possible, and charge your for it - a bezel insert etc. will not bother them.

[imb1]

With all things it comes down to supply and demand. As long as there is a demand someone will supply it. So to get rid of the makers of fakes then you really need to go after the people buying them. Most countries go after the manufacturer/supplier. The anti fur lobby got it right. They made it morally unacceptable to wear furs. Since then you hardly see anyone wearing a fur coat.

[abraxas]

.
Fake watches are like drugs, where 'the supply' blames 'the demand' and vice versa. Most WISes have no time for fakes. I don't even like fake breasts.

john

[Omegamanic]

.
I don't even like fake breasts.

john

For the most part I would agree.

[markrlondon]

In other countries the goods will be seized and I believe you may be liable to a fine - something needs to be done.

I think the UK has it right (for once). Morally speaking it is manufacturing and selling thaty is wrong, not owning.

To an extent - but that in itself creates a demand and an outlet for that demand.

<shrug> I don't see that as a problem. It is still the manufacturers and suppliers that commit the 'moral' crime in my view.

You make reasonable points but none of them to my mind change the essentiually non-criminal (in moral terms) nature of owning a so-called 'fake'. It is the property of its owner and and as such it should be respected, just like any other property. Whether or not it is 'genuine' as defined by some third party seems neither here nor there to me in this context.

[markrlondon]

As long as there is a demand someone will supply it. So to get rid of the makers of fakes then you really need to go after the people buying them.

The lesson of history, however, is that this never, ever works. It is utter folly. Furthermore, it simply 'invents' artifical crime and, in reality, solves nothing. Moreover, it is an invitation to further increase the power of the state and of large business over individuals. It's a bad idea.

If there is a genuine problem then the only morally right and practically sensible thing to do is to attack the suppliers and manufacturers.

[swanbourne]

Legislation has always been difficult to understand, remember all those "spy" transmitters you could buy through Exchange & Mart? Not illegal to sell or own but illegal to use! Same with CBs before they were legal, not illegal to sell and own but also illegal to use. I would have thought if anything was illegal to use, then it's the supply chain that needs tackling.

Eddie

[Omegamanic]

In other countries the goods will be seized and I believe you may be liable to a fine - something needs to be done.

I think the UK has it right (for once). Morally speaking it is manufacturing and selling thaty is wrong, not owning.

To an extent - but that in itself creates a demand and an outlet for that demand.

<shrug> I don't see that as a problem. It is still the manufacturers and suppliers that commit the 'moral' crime in my view.

You make reasonable points but none of them to my mind change the essentiually non-criminal (in moral terms) nature of owning a so-called 'fake'. It is the property of its owner and and as such it should be respected, just like any other property. Whether or not it is 'genuine' as defined by some third party seems neither here nor there to me in this context.

Agreed. The manufacturers are guilty of breaching whatever use of logo's trademarks etc. etc. the products depict - plus it is only because of the marketing of the original company that people would want to buy a product with those on them any way.

There is obviously a lot more to it and we are scratching the surface of how it would be possible to effectively control. Fake goods don't bother me too much, I wouldn't buy them personally. I do find it funny when sometimes a fake good is reported to be as good, or even better than the original though - I am not talking watches though - and the fact that companies have faked a complete motorbike is amazing to me in some ways.

[WatchScout]

With all things it comes down to supply and demand. As long as there is a demand someone will supply it. So to get rid of the makers of fakes then you really need to go after the people buying them. Most countries go after the manufacturer/supplier. The anti fur lobby got it right. They made it morally unacceptable to wear furs. Since then you hardly see anyone wearing a fur coat.

As mentioned, what we need is a change of morals.

As long as some are morally corrupt, there will be a market for supplying them with fakes.

We have even seen a few of these morally corrupt pop up here.
And I am not talking about a member having once bought a cheapo fake when young at a hollidy resort either (which I will not blame them for - only human, we have all made mistakes, most of us get wiser and all that etc), but the flaunting of fakes and taking 'pride' in ownership (as if these people would know pride if it bit them in the derriere!).

It boils down to; people who wear fakes are fake people ..., and .....

.
Fake watches are like drugs, where 'the supply' blames 'the demand' and vice versa. Most WISes have no time for fakes. I don't even like fake breasts.

john

.....This.







.

The jury is still out on the fake breasts :lol: :wink:

[WatchScout]

Agreed. The manufacturers are guilty of breaching whatever use of logo's trademarks etc. etc. the products depict - plus it is only because of the marketing of the original company that people would want to buy a product with those on them any way.

There is obviously a lot more to it and we are scratching the surface of how it would be possible to effectively control. Fake goods don't bother me too much, I wouldn't buy them personally. I do find it funny when sometimes a fake good is reported to be as good, or even better than the original though - I am not talking watches though - and the fact that companies have faked a complete motorbike is amazing to me in some ways.

I travel a lot. Fake airplane parts scare me :shock: :(

[abraxas]

.....

I travel a lot. Fake airplane parts scare me :shock: :(

Fake medicines ... :pale:

john

[Omegamanic]

.....

I travel a lot. Fake airplane parts scare me :shock: :(

Fake medicines ... :pale:

john

Fake medicines that have been found on UK pharmacy shelves too!

[stooo]

Does turkey bacon count as fake?

And Quorn, fake meat AND fake cardboard.

[Joe.K]

I understand some fakes are just wrong but I say hands off fake boobs
Joe

[steptoe]

If we're moralising what about fake sincerity. :D

[luddite]

If we're moralising what about fake sincerity. :D

I agree whole heartedly, you make a brilliant point.

I mean that most sincerely folks. :mrgreen:

[golfg60]

Did you see the program and they had fake eggs :shock:

[abraxas]

Did you see the program and they had fake eggs :shock:

It's viral on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... iqpsUPboYk

john

[golfg60]

Did you see the program and they had fake eggs :shock:

It's viral on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... iqpsUPboYk

john

:shock: it's so bad :lol:

[kdes24uk]

not safe anywhere !

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... -wine.html

Kev

[jrpippen]

I recall a notice in a French Railway stating that it is illegal to own a fake and, if found, this will be confiscated and the owner subject to a huge fine.

Guess the French Authorities are very protective of luxury brands.

Italy has the same rule, there it is also illeagal to buy or even simply to possess a fake.

one assumes these laws are not rigourously enforced as I have seen many North Africans openly selling fakes in public in both countries...

Italy is a hotbed of fakes. All you has to do is slip down a side street anywhere around lake Garda and bobs you mothers cousin. Fake watches to buy.

Oh and fake boobs are great.

[WatchScout]

I understand some fakes are just wrong but I say hands [s:1ip22qu1]off[/s:1ip22qu1] on fake boobs
Joe

Fixed that for you :lol: :wink:

[robcuk]

I recall a notice in a French Railway stating that it is illegal to own a fake and, if found, this will be confiscated and the owner subject to a huge fine.

Guess the French Authorities are very protective of luxury brands.

Italy has the same rule, there it is also illeagal to buy or even simply to possess a fake.

one assumes these laws are not rigourously enforced as I have seen many North Africans openly selling fakes in public in both countries...

Yep, in Venice they hound you to buy a fake bag, you buy it, walk round the corner and "Hello, Hello" the Guardia Di Finanza stop you, take the bag and fine you €1000 :o :o

And you can guarantee the bag goes home to the Missis :lol:

[burnside]

My understanding is this, if you pass through Customs at Heathrow with counterfeit goods, UGG Boots, Watches, Clothing, it will be seized and destroyed. It should be the same for other points of entry as well.

[Omegamanic]

My understanding is this, if you pass through Customs at Heathrow with counterfeit goods, UGG Boots, Watches, Clothing, it will be seized and destroyed. It should be the same for other points of entry as well.

Importing is different to possession though.

[burnside]

Well you have a point a bag full of jeans is easier to seize than a pair being worn by a passenger who would probably say, i thought they were real etc.

Be interesting to see though.

[Dave+63]

. I don't even like fake breasts.

john[/quote]

I got called gay for saying that on another thread!!