Reply With QuoteDo you have a Cartier flagship store nearby ?
Perhaps you can try their online after sale service.
How hard is it to tell wether on not a crap Cartier copy is a fake or not?
I am in dispute with the seller of the watch as to weather or not the watch is genuine or not... you be the judge:
Paypal need written confirmation that the watch is a fake before they hand me my money back.
no watch stores are willing these days to just simply write on a piece of paper, 'this watch is a replica cartier... signed ______'
I was in the Trafford Center this evening hoping the staff at Goldsmiths could help out, what a bunch on monkeys... one guy even shook the watch and took one loooonnnngg hard look at the clearly 'japanese' quartz movement and still looked up to me and shrugged his shoulders.
How do these folk ever manage to call themselves watch sales people ????
Do you have a Cartier flagship store nearby ?
Perhaps you can try their online after sale service.
If these were the ebay photo's, why on eartch did you buy the thing?
When I've had issues with eBay I've always just called up during the day and they've been pretty helpful. I've had the money returned within 48 hours but it was on much cheaper items to be honest.
Have you spoken to them or just gone through the online dispute process Abe?
:lol:Originally Posted by SimonK
They where worse than this... Like thats not bad enough.
Anyhow in response the the first reply to the post. Even a Cartier store cannot verify it as a fake in store, it needs to be sent off.
Now as a watchmaker in training, I can see the obvious.... anyone with a hint of common-sense can see the obvious. So why cant watch technicians in store at Goldsmiths see the same too?
Red tape?
I have only ten days in which to provide evidence and I dont think Cartier will see to it that they assess and return he watch in that amount of time.
Forward eBay this forum link?
Mickey Mouse can verify its a POS ! He made it !
i asked the question of a Goldsmiths that had the original of the watch in question in stock, and the still wouldn't verify, i was told they had been told to avoid verification of ebay fakes etc due to getting involved in too many legal wrangles in the small claims court, i assume as expert witnesses.
:lol:
They where worse than this... Like thats not bad enough.
Anyhow in response the the first reply to the post. Even a Cartier store cannot verify it as a fake in store, it needs to be sent off.
Now as a watchmaker in training, I can see the obvious.... anyone with a hint of common-sense can see the obvious. So why cant watch technicians in store at Goldsmiths see the same too?
Red tape?
I have only ten days in which to provide evidence and I dont think Cartier will see to it that they assess and return he watch in that amount of time.
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
I don't know about Carrier, but when I called Zenith about servicing my watch they sent me a box & pre-paid envelope to send it off in, am sure this would get you a quick confirmation is fake and you can let the vendor negotiate its return from Carrier.
Looks like a cheap knock off, can you not find an independent watch repairer who could verify?
Why did you buy it?
I would have imagined having ARTIER on the dial is a bit of a give away!
I'm surprised you can't just say it is not as described and get your money back.
I sold hi fi equipment on the bay and the buyer simply told eBay it wasn't as described and eBay took the money from my account without a by-your-leave.
Ps - do you have better pics? It could be real so maybe arguing that it is fake is not the route you want to go down, especially given the limited time frame.
This is a good point. If it's a replica of an actual Cartier can you supply links to pictures showing what the watch should look like?
"A man of little significance"
Intersting.
I have a dispute right now over a watch sent by a Ukranian.
The fotos left no doubt; there was a VERY rare caliber inside.
What I got was a watch in far nicer condition but with a thirteen a dozen motor.
The seller replied confirming that he sent off a different one because it was in better condition.
There is thus no dispute; he did not send what I bought.
I don´t want it. Give me my money back, pay return postage and I´ll send the watch back.
End of case :?:
Paypal has been sending rather overbearing (possibly stabdard) mails, in effect pressuring me to accept a meagre discount.
Also that probably same letter that I need a written statement by an expert etc.
There ís no dispute :idea:
Just get me my money back :!:
I find it curious that you've actually expect a local jeweller to write a statement. Why would a jeweller (except official Cartier agents may be) have any interested in verifying whether a watch is real or not (especially when you're not a good and well known customer)? Would you run the risk of getting in trouble or even spend the time writing up a statement? I wouldn't. Esp. since you've already shown by buying from ebay, that you don't intent to buy there...
^ this.
I think you takes your chance on eBay - sometimes it comes good, other times not. That's the gamble, as Jim Bowen used to say!
Hand it in for a routine service?
I'm sure they will swiflty give it back because it is a fake.
Or they might not give it back at all because it is a fake? Then you have nothing to return to the seller....
Cheers..
Jase
Ah, yes if they have the legal rights to do so that would be a predicament indeed.Or they might not give it back at all because it is a fake? Then you have nothing to return to the seller....
[quote=S.L]Ah, yes if they have the legal rights to do so that would be a predicament indeed.[/quote:11e4c2pz]Or they might not give it back at all because it is a fake? Then you have nothing to return to the seller....
In this case I doubt they have as it is branded ´Artier´.
As to a statement, the ot should go to an expert who will make a value estimate like for an insurance. It´s a service and not free.
That paypal would want an expert statement is not unreasonable from their point of view.
From the buyers pov it is reasonable that the costs should be reïmbursed by the seller.
In this case the ´defrauding´ bit has a mwaw... The watch is branded ´Artier´. I cannot see why the OT bought the thing.
If they take it off you when you give it in for a service they have to give you some sort of receipt for it - otherwise I'd say it was theft and report to the police.
On the subject of eBay - just open an item 'not as described' dispute and return it. I would steer clear of eBay for watches
A few years ago, I had a dispute about nike shoes. Pictures did not match the received item (pictures of a genuine one, received a fake one), I had a written and stamped letter from the manager of a Nike Flagship store proving my statement and Paypal declined my request saying that only Nike AfterSale Services was recognized as expert in this domain.
So perhaps that non matching item case is easier than fake/genuine one.
That's the thing... they are sales people and you are not buying.I was in the Trafford Center this evening hoping the staff at Goldsmiths could help out, what a bunch on monkeys... one guy even shook the watch and took one loooonnnngg hard look at the clearly 'japanese' quartz movement and still looked up to me and shrugged his shoulders.
How do these folk ever manage to call themselves watch sales people ????
I can understand why jewelers and Cartier themselves would want nothing to do with authenticating stuff from eBay. Seriously, what is in it for them?
Pros
- There is a very slim chance that the punter might come back one day and buy a real one, but probably not.
Cons
- If they say it is real and it isn't they get into trouble.
- If they say it is fake and it isn't they get into trouble.
- It takes their sales people away from actually selling.
- Do they want people trying to buy real ones full price ones having to queue behind people who have bought them, real or fake, somewhere else for buttons?
- They would have to train sales people to authenticate watches. This takes time and costs money, and isn't what they want them to be doing.
- At a time all ADs want to appear increasingly upmarket and are spending a fortune making their shops plush, they don't want people bringing in all kinds of tat and turning the place into a sort of downmarket Antiques Roadshow
Where is the seller located ?How hard is it to tell wether on not a crap Cartier copy is a fake or not?
I am in dispute with the seller of the watch as to weather or not the watch is genuine or not... you be the judge:
Paypal need written confirmation that the watch is a fake before they hand me my money back.
no watch stores are willing these days to just simply write on a piece of paper, 'this watch is a replica cartier... signed ______'
I was in the Trafford Center this evening hoping the staff at Goldsmiths could help out, what a bunch on monkeys... one guy even shook the watch and took one loooonnnngg hard look at the clearly 'japanese' quartz movement and still looked up to me and shrugged his shoulders.
How do these folk ever manage to call themselves watch sales people ????
I'm not a Cartier expert but are you sure the case and dial etc are fake?
I wouldn't be surprised if they were genuine and the C of Cartier on the dial has been damaged / lifted by the apparent water damage and the movement has been swapped for the same reason.
Generally, the case etc looks to be of Cartier quality.
I was led to believe that a guide to authenticity is that one of the latin "I"s of the indices actually isn't an "I" but "Cartier" in tiny print. I think it's at
the "seven" position.
I've been wrong before though
______
Jim.
In the picture - the cartier is part of the 10 oclock markerI was led to believe that a guide to authenticity is that one of the latin "I"s of the indices actually isn't an "I" but "Cartier" in tiny print. I think it's at
the "seven" position.
I've been wrong before though
At least correct for some models,I was led to believe that a guide to authenticity is that one of the latin "I"s of the indices actually isn't an "I" but "Cartier" in tiny print. I think it's at
the "seven" position.
I've been wrong before though
But how hard would that be to fake?
Which is what I wrote.
They want an expert evaluation.
For watches you would be very lucky if an AD should coöperate.
Yes.So perhaps that non matching item case is easier than fake/genuine one.
Even so a seller offering to compensate can see you holding the candle again when you claim the goods received are worth less or whatever.
Stick to the ´I did NOT buy THÍS article´ and you have the best chances.
In my case it is like having bought a well used double red Rolex sub and receiving an as new regular one with the argumentation that it is in better condition :mrgreen:
Don´t go there as you may end up with a discussion over value en getting the burden of proof.
Stick to not having received the article you bought.
That however is not on in his case.
The buyers got stung for not asking better/more pictures. Now he has the burden of proof. Not thát unreasonable.
Thanks, I now see that (once it's been pointed out) :wink:In the picture - the cartier is part of the 10 oclock markerI was led to believe that a guide to authenticity is that one of the latin "I"s of the indices actually isn't an "I" but "Cartier" in tiny print. I think it's at
the "seven" position.
I've been wrong before though
About as difficult as the RolexRolexRolex rehaut, I suppose, but they're both supposed to be anti counterfeiting measures.At least correct for some models,I was led to believe that a guide to authenticity is that one of the latin "I"s of the indices actually isn't an "I" but "Cartier" in tiny print. I think it's at
the "seven" position.
I've been wrong before though
But how hard would that be to fake?
______
Jim.
The latest ´best replica´ models even have :bounce: finished real Swiss engines of the correct caliber.
Get yourself a high quality strap and there is virtually no way to spot the differences for anyone but the experienced high end wis.
This simply highlights the pitfalls of buying Veblen goods through non Veblen outlets to save a buck.
Can you not find out the correct movement number for this watch and then prove it's fake as it will not match what is in it ?
Cheers
Simon
Ralph Waldo Emerson: We ask for long life, but 'tis deep life, or noble moments that signify. Let the measure of time be spiritual, not mechanical.
If you try and take it to a Cartier outlet.. and they keep it as it's fake.. tell them that you are delighted with that.. and can they put it in writing via receipt that they have seized it, and to state why.
At the end of the day.. you're possibly not that fussed about returning it, you just want your money back at the end of the day.. and even though PayPal only gives you so long.. I am sure that they wouldn't be pleased about a lot of money changing hands on a fake once you have full and sufficient evidence that it's a fake. It would surely be dodgy for them not to look into past the deadline if you have legal grounds due to having a Cartier receipt of seizure?
Food for thought maybe?
Maybe rather than asking a professional to confirm it's a fake, pay them to write you up an insurance valuation and description.
Surely this can then be submitted to the vendor/Paypal with the statement that the goods are not as described?
Assuming the vendor is in the UK why bother with paypal / ebay / Cartier / jewellers /valuations etc. Just go and knock on his door and ask for a refund; take a mate if you are worried and threaten to call the Police and report him for obtaining by deception if he wont cough up.
nowadays buying a luxury watch on the cheap on eBay is a bit like poking a soft turd with a stick , what did you expect ?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Why would goldsmiths want to show any interest in this at all??.... Establishing provenance on items that have been bought from god knows where, is surely not their problem.....
Depending on how you pay you should be protected by ebay and paypal protection and if oyu phone them up they will refund the money for you..if not get in touch with your card compnay as you should be covered for fraud
:mrgreen:
Ok, maybe I was a bit too polite with the Veblen goods example.
Try reading the topic.
Could you go to Cartier and offer it as part-ex on another piece...?
You'd find that they'd know the difference then! :lol:
They will decline to purchase but I'd bet they won't give their reason in writing, which is what the OP needs.Could you go to Cartier and offer it as part-ex on another piece...?
Aye.. fair comment.
I wonder how much the piece was bought for.. and would any dealer put it in writing if you crossed their palms with silver???
Though as already stated... there are legal complications if they started doing anything of this sort en masse.
I still can't believe what I see when I have a nosey around eBay, and see items in India that are all from the same stable, just with different (expensive) brand names on.
So they have this huge no-fakes policy, but there are sellers there whose whole existence is built on selling fake crap..
Funny site, really.
That's what I was thinking. It wouldn't be the first time someone has "fixed" an expensive watch with any old quartz movement. Let's be honest, most people aren't watch collectors, and aren't bothered about what's inside as long as it keeps time. It's hard to see from the photos, but the branding "artier" looks off centre - as if it's missing the "C", rather than being deliberately branded "Artier"
It's hard to tell from pictures, but it's very possible that it is genuine and at some point in its (apparently hard) life the watch has stopped and the owner has taken it to a watch repairer who's swapped the movement over to fix it.
I've heard stories about people asking breguet to modify the movement of their watch for a quartz, it could be true but seriously, event if the case and dial are real, do you really want to keep the watch ?
Good point but one tiny flaw; you are basing this on the fact that PayPal give a shit which, as has been proved countless times, that they don't. Once deadline is up I can't see them doing anything further.
We're still just missing one piece of info here: why on earth did the OP buy this???
:drunken: :drunken:
Dunno.. but alas, he did, and probably knows that already without being reminded.
And as a couple of people whose opinion is respected enough for me.. have pointed out.. who is to say that this doesn't have the outside casing and dial from an original Cartier?
If the watch was originally a Cartier, and has simply had a new movement installed.. then it would be EASY to buy such a piece.
As, in effect, without the benefit of hindsight and inside movement viewing, the watch WOULD be a Cartier.
Greg.
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