British issued dive watches

[Foggy]

Here it is. Apologies for the lack of formatting and pictures, but I've just cut and pasted it from my word document. I'll try and update it a bit in the future.

British Royal Navy Dive Watches – 1960’s to present day

The first specs pertaining to a dive watch for the British Royal Navy were introduced in the 1960’s. At that time, 2 companies produced dive wristwatches that met the required specifications. These companies were Rolex and Omega. Here follows a brief description of the watches they offered :-

1) The Rolex Submariner ref 5513 & 5517

All stainless steel case, with water resistance of 200 metres. Black dial with circle T added to signify Tritium as the source of lumionous. Screw down crown. Earlier models had a diamond shaped hour hand, with later models having the more easily recognized (to Rolex owners, at least) Mercedes hour hand. The steel case had fixed bars to lessen the danger of losing the watch through spring bar failure.
Caseback engraved with the Royal Navy stores numbers

0552/923-7697, broadarrow below (signifying government property), and then below that an issue number and issue year. Eg 175/70, signifying watch number 175 of 1970.

The above modifications were made to the civilian 5513 before the watches left the Rolex factory.

2) Omega Seamaster 300

Similar to the Rolex, with all steel case and water resistance of 200m. This watch was basically the civilian model of the Seamaster 300, with subsequent modifications made after they left the Omega factory. The watches were delivered to the MOD’s UK agent (generally Goldsmiths) where modifications were then made. These included the braising of fixed bars onto the case, circle T added to the dial (not always the case, as MOD conversion work is rarely consistent), and the caseback engraved with the stores numbers as per the Rolex above. The dials also came in a big triangle version ie a large triangle of luminous material at the 12 o’clock marker.

Onwards into the 1980’s, and the Royal Navy saw a few different watch brands enter the scene. Amongst them were :-

a) Circa 1984, CWC made an automatic diver with an ETA movement. Based on the same MOD specs, so not dissimilar in looks to the SM300. Short lived though, probably due to the quartz revolution (more to follow)
b) Around the same time period, Precista also made an automatic diver with a 25 jewel ETC movement. Pretty scare, and one that I have not seen in person.
c) Cyma produced a jewelled quartz movement diver – again, fairly scarce in numbers. There has also been rumour of an Heuer version which appears to share the same case as the Cyma. If issued, the numbers were very small.

In more recent years, the CWC quartz divers have become the main issued dive watch for the Royal Navy. There are two versions of this watch available

1) The standard CWC dive model. Steel case with fixed bars, screw down crown, circle T dial. Water resistance now increased to 300m. Case back marked as follows

0552/6645-99 7573314, followed by issue number and year.

2) The SBS (Special Boat Service) version – same as above, but with black anodised case, and day date window on the dial. The black case is for extra stealth in special operations ie less reflections from a black case when compared with a steel case. Case back marked as follows

0552/6645-99 7995443


Both of the CWC dive watches are powered by a 7 jewel ETA quartz movement (cal 955.122)

In the last year, it is also reported that currently there are a number of issued versions of the current black dialled quartz Omega Seamaster. Some are still as per the stock civilian pieces spec., whilst others have been converted to include fixed bars and stores issue numbers on the case backs.

Notes

0552 is the prefix for Royal Navy. You may also see 0555, which relates to the Royal Marines.
6645 is the NATO stores prefix for wristwatches
99 is the NATO prefix for the UK.

[JP (Europe)]

I have copied this from some watch dealer pages in the past. Watch is already sold.

.....skip.....

CWC Cortebert

Mans Automatic Wristwatch " Military ", made for the Royal Navy ( follow up for the Rolex Submariner ), Ref. 0977.165-81, Screw - Down Crown, screwed Stainless Steel Case, Back engraved : 0552/923-7697, Broad Arrow, 1110/81, black revolving Bezel, fixed Bars, black original Dial, luminous Markers ( Tritium ), white luminous Hands, Sweep Second, 17 Jewel Movement, Cal. 2872 ( ETA ), Rotorwind, Shock - Protection " Incabloc ", Military Strap, Switzerland / UK, ca. 1981, Diameter ca. 41,5 mm, total Height ca. 13 mm

......skip......

Should be Cabot Watch Company I believe....? Interesting is that this watch seems to have same ref-number what UK MOD Rolex had. Is this correct?

JP

PS: Interesting that your list doesn´t have one trade mark what was the French marine, US Navy saturation divers, Polish, Korean, British, German and Swiss navy official diver. :wink:

PPS: Yep your list is correct.... :lol:

[Galea]

A photograph taken from the CWC (Silvermans) website showing an original Royal Navy CWC automatic diver issued in 1981. Note the old style CWC logo which is not encircled. This must be quite rare I believe as this is the first photo of one I've seen.

[Neil.C]

Very interesting primer there Fogster. :)

As proof reader of your new book I feel I must point out the correct spelling of "Brazing" as opposed to "Braising" which is something you do with meat apparently. :wink:

No criticism intended but the manuscript must be right for publication. :D

[rfrazier]

Thanks Foggy! Interesting read. More pictures, please.

Best wishes,
Bob

[Foggy]

Blimey, I'd forgotten about that post - written two years ago.

Cheers

Foggy

[Galea]

It still makes good reading Foggy :wink:

Any updates on your information?

Regards,

Joseph

P.S. Wow I'm a Corporal now! I still remain a Gunner in the Reserves of the Armed Forces of Malta though :lol:

[swanbourne]

Which part of Malta Joseph?

Eddie

[Crusader]

Which part of Malta Joseph?

Eddie

I thought the physical extent of the island was such that it did not matter in which part the guns are located ... :wink:

Now where's that coat ...

[abraxas]

Which part of Malta Joseph?

Eddie

I thought the physical extent of the island was such that it did not matter in which part the guns are located ... :wink:

Now where's that coat ...

The other day there was a piece on TV about North Africans trying to smuggle themselves into Italy and erroneously ending up on Malta ... apparently Malta is full of them now, and don't know what to do ... it's tragic ... but mildly amusing too. (Don't mention the Moors :wink: )

john

[Galea]

I live in Gozo, the sister island of Malta. Yes right now we do have a problem with illegal immigration from North Africa, same as Italy does, but due to our small size this is putting quite a strain on the country's resources. These past days, a number of corpses have been found in the sea ... tragedies are happening when overcrowded boats do not make it in rough seas ( http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=203693 )

Regards,

Joseph

[swanbourne]

Ah Gozo! The place I would really like to live and an ideal bolt-hole when I need to escape the taxman. :lol: I've had many lunches in the Marsalforn Hotel and fed the large parrot outside (this was in the 1980s, so the parrot is probably now a polygon). Their homebrew wine is lethal, more like sherry really but dispensed in LARGE glasses.

Eddie

[Galea]

Yes, I do remember the large parrot on its perch outside the Marsalforn Hotel as a child (I am 30 now). It has long been gone, and no other parrot has taken its place ... and I don't think the avian flu scare has got anything to do with it :wink: Anyway, I think you'll find that Gozo has changed a lot now, although it still remains more laid back than Malta.

I hope I won't get shot at for turning the thread on British issued dive watches into this ramble! :lol:

Joseph

[endure]

2) The SBS (Special Boat Service) version – same as above, but with black anodised case, and day date window on the dial. The black case is for extra stealth in special operations ie less reflections from a black case when compared with a steel case. Case back marked as follows

Why do the SBS need a day date window? Are they unusually forgetful? :D

[rfrazier]

2) The SBS (Special Boat Service) version ? same as above, but with black anodised case, and day date window on the dial. The black case is for extra stealth in special operations ie less reflections from a black case when compared with a steel case. Case back marked as follows

Why do the SBS need a day date window? Are they unusually forgetful? :D

They spend a lot of times in canoes. And you know how that goes.

Best wishes,
Bob

[Neil.C]

Ah Gozo! The place I would really like to live and an ideal bolt-hole when I need to escape the taxman. :lol: I've had many lunches in the Marsalforn Hotel and fed the large parrot outside (this was in the 1980s, so the parrot is probably now a polygon). Their homebrew wine is lethal, more like sherry really but dispensed in LARGE glasses.

Eddie

Gozo was a lovely place when I last visited, about 20 years ago.

The other smaller island I visited is Comino that was very undeveloped with just one hotel.

I wonder what it is like now? :shock:

Malta was a great holiday destination with the close links the Maltese have always had with Britain via the forces.

Lovely friendly people. :)

[smersh]

Which among the prestigious watch brands excluding CWC, Marathon, etc. would you guys say as having the distinction of having "a lot of" or "a long military history" whether its because it is a dominant and consistent issuer of military watches or its civilian watches are preferred or being used by military personnel?

Would it be Omega? :D

[Galea]

Comino has remained the same, with still one hotel. Let's hope it will remain like that.

Joseph

[swanbourne]

Interesting post here, looks familiar. No credit given. :(

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=22147#post22147

Eddie

[Galea]

Looks like blatant plagiarism to me :(

[Neil.C]

Interesting post here, looks familiar. No credit given. :(

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=22147#post22147

Eddie

What a stinker.

Nothing worse than these cut and paste merchants that make like it is all their own work. :?

Glad Foggy put them straight.

[bandylegss]

I bet he is very very I wonder if he will apologise to Ian.
Paul. :)

[smersh]

Gen. Foggy;

The recent issue of Omega Seamaster with black dial that you referred to , were you referring to the Seamaster 300M with black wavy dial and with a large blunt triangle at 12 oclock and sort of trapezoidal hour markers (yellowish) with a black backgound date indicator at 3 o'clock? The model that came after the blue dialed Bond Seamaster was introduced :?:

[Mike K]

Interesting post here, looks familiar. No credit given. :(

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=22147#post22147

Eddie

What a stinker.

Nothing worse than these cut and paste merchants that make like it is all their own work. :?

Glad Foggy put them straight.

WARNING: Rant ahead


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That really irks me. If the information is not mine, and I don't know who to attribute the information to (usually the case with my bad memory), I always say at the very least "I heard?" or "I read somewhere?" or "I think I saw?" showing that it's not to my credit. If it's a bit of insight that I have gleaned from several data points that I can't remember I'll usually say"It's to my understanding that?". I guess it's the scholar in me (always required to reference sources). I wonder why people think it's okay to just copy and paste information with absolutely no attribution?

Hell, I even usually give references to jokes that I tell. I have seen whole pages of material, maybe 40 or 50 jokes or anecdots or information, copied and pasted directly from the author' web page onto another's web page and presented as if it was their own (the secondary posters) jokes or stories. Then the thread follows with post after post of "great jokes!" or "thanks for the info". Then, finally, someone points out that this was authored by someone else. THEN, and only then, do they excuse themsleves, "Oh, it was sent to me by e-mail and I decided you might enjoy/be interested?" Well, why didn't you say that in the first page/post? You let us think it was your genius that created it, and instead of correcting that mis-interpretation right away, you wait. If you had said initially, or at least corrected the oversight immediately, that it was sent to you, at least we know it wasn't you that was the genius, but rather that you were being thoughtful of us, which we appreciate too.