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World Premiere: Limited Edition Grand Seiko Spring Drive Diver
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t= ... id=6080721
john
I first saw the quote in the sig of a TZ forumer so I googled it ...Anyone check out the Grand Seiko...article in the latest edition of WatchTime Magazine?
It is a very good read, written by WatchTime Editor-in-Chief, Joe Thompson. A couple of highlights from the article are when he summarizes how on a back-to-back reporting trips to Japan and then to Switzerland, .."a prominent CEO of a Swiss watch brand declared, "Seiko makes the best mechanical watch in the world. I hate to say it, but it's true." Then he says that two days later in a conversation with the technical director of another Swiss watch firm, the director said, unprompted, "I would love to have a Grand Seiko."
Reading this article helped me understand why GS has such a cult following in this forum and by many watch enthusiasts. Really helped to move GS up my list.
Spring Drive and resting positions
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t= ... 8842&rid=0
Anyone check out the Grand Seiko article in the latest edition of WatchTime Magazine?
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/anyone- ... 58663.html
If anyone can photo the article for us ...* Joe Thompson journeys to Japan for a behind-the-scenes look at the making of Seiko’s coveted Grand Seiko watch
On Sale Now (this is the edition they talking about)
http://www.watchtime.com/magazine/on-sale-now/
john
THIN is the new BLACK
World Premiere: Limited Edition Grand Seiko Spring Drive Diver
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t= ... id=6080721
john
THIN is the new BLACK
I like the idea behind Spring Drive, but the 36000 bph automatic Grand Seikos actually feel more impressive to me.
Originally Posted by andamanen
The 3Days is just as impressive. I am suprised they did not combine the ideas. A 3Days, Hi-beat, free sprung. It would be the absolute.
john
THIN is the new BLACK
^^
+1 black dial looks best imo
I think the 200m model is the only one of 'the sports' without the 24H indication.
john
THIN is the new BLACK
Maybe not the best mechanical watch in the world. But damn good nonetheless:
The 6s74
john
THIN is the new BLACK
That is a lovely watch.
To be fair, I would expect to see the edges finished to remove the stamping marks and perhaps some anglage on the bridge and plates. It still looks like a mass-produced movement. This doesn't matter in the cheaper movements but the movements in the top watches should look like top movements.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
The GS movements have finished edges. No anglage is used, very few Seikos that I am aware of feature anglage, except for some Credors. Still, the GS movements aren't exactly mass-produced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoTHEWhhVWQ
The plate edges look so neat that anglage probably isn't needed.
I have the 40 year old hand made 2 sec./month ´Special´ and yes it ís :shock:
The competition based handwind 45 is more so though and the cal. 19 is so out of the mould that wis-dom has denied it´s existance untill last year Seiko published it on the GS site.
Oh, and SD is NOT a ´mechanical´ unless one is willing to see the quartz cristal tuning fork as a mechanical oscilator.
My first reaction to this thread was if it was a 'Rolex is the best watch etc etc' thread then you'd have about a dozen 'Rolex Haters' along in a matter of minutes saying how rubbish they were and that a Citizen / Rotary / Tissot etc etc is miles better...
So, I suppose to keep things equitable in the world of TZUK, I ought to say that a Citizen / Rotary / Tissot are miles better than a GS (and in the same vein, I don't need to give a valid reason, they just are :lol: ).
Right, on to the GS. The first example shown, the polished dress style example, I rather like - a nice balanced design, almost classical good looks. The others, particularly the diver styles, are borderline hideous IMO, and (IMO), not a patch on my 6309 in asthetic terms, which for me is the main driver in determining the desirability or otherwise of a watch. I know the 6300 series movement in my Seiko isn't a patch on the design of that in the GS, but since I'm not timing moon landings it's still quite accurate enough for my needs.
And I suppose, that's what will determine whether you're a GS lover or not. Is what's inside the case (in design / manufacturing / technological terms) the most important thing to you, or is it simply how good you think the watch looks on your wrist? Fortunately, in the world of WISdom we have fervent advocates from both camps, and many more in betweeners, which makes the whole game a lot more interesting.
By what measure? The purely mechanical movements are pretty conventional, aren't they, high beat rate aside? And since their timekeeping performance is competitive but not universally regarded as standard-setting, presumably it's just a matter of finishing - and they're not the only ones to produce movements with exemplary finishing. So it is something else?
Since a watch is - sigh - more than just the movement :roll:, I'd say that in some respects Seiko is behind the curve. They are obviously very well made but their designs are simple and austere to the point of unimaginative.
This over-emphasis on the movement to the exclusion of all else is simplistic and arcane, IMO.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
just can't agree...that I would suggest to rephrase it: "Seiko makes some damn good mechanical watch in Mars"
Although pretty ground breaking technology (typical Seiko) I respect but still can't really enjoy the hybrid SD's...... and that power reserve indicator, why ruin a dial?
There are some mech GS's that I think look beautiful, usually the conservative ones and have lovely movements (esp 36000) to go along with them. If you look at importing, the prices can be similar to to some very "meh" watches which in reality makes them very good VFM.
Cheers,
Neil.
You'd have to ask the two CEOs why they think Seiko make the best mechanical watches. Perhaps they were including value as one of the criteria? I don't know too much about movements, but to my understanding yes they are generally conventional designs. That was the design ethos of all aspects of GS (although Springdrive muddies the waters somewhat). Conservative, conventional, classic, refined. So, while traditional and conventional in many ways, the materials used for the hair spring and mian spring are advanced. (According to Seiko's PR! :lol: ) Seiko and a Japanese university collaborated for 6 years to develop the 9S85 mainspring material, and Seiko developed the hairspring material for 5 years. Time keeping specs are not at the Patek level, but better than COSC, and prices are WAY less.
I am surprised that the movements don't have free-sprung balances - this is a significant omission (on paper) compared to natural competitors like JLC, and even compared to some mass produced, more mainstream, watches like Rolex and Omega. It is possible that Seiko engineered their way around it and decided it is unnecessary (as per the helium valve on their divers, magic lever winding, etc, etc) but still it looks a bit crude and ETAish compared to the competition.
FFS, seriously.
Is there no escaping????
Now, go on John, tell me something new............ :D
That diver is lovely :drunken:
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Well, that´s the point of Grand Seiko. Traditional and conservative design.
some of them are lovely.
i cant remember the model but theres one with a dial based on snow that id not turn down.
Agreed, but the blue dial would look even nicer with a blue bezel.
You can't compare a Seiko to a Zenith and convince me that the Seiko is the better movement.
:lol: :lol:
You are not the brightest of people then???
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
pretty = better, hoviosly
...and that's fine, but I'd just like to know how the statement "best watch in the world" is qualified by its claimant(s). If part of that is because of its design, then the statement cannot be made because it assumes uniform and pre-determined taste and functional requirement across the market. Same reason you can't claim that a gold Patek phase de lune equation of time grand sonnerie tourbillon (etc) is the best watch in the world - if all it does is mist up in the rain!Well, that´s the point of Grand Seiko. Traditional and conservative design.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I think we need to look at the backgrounds of the people making these comments. These are individuals that work in the commerical world of watch making.
If we relate this to cars, it is very common for vehicle engineers to regard Porsche as making the best cars in the world. As a combination of technology, approach to engineering, final execution and profit margins etc are all taken into account.
I am sure that if we were in the know then we may well agree with what has been said.
Chris
Well first we'd need to determine which is better, an orange or an apple....and that's fine, but I'd just like to know how the statement "best watch in the world" is qualified by its claimant(s). If part of that is because of its design, then the statement cannot be made because it assumes uniform and pre-determined taste and functional requirement across the market. Same reason you can't claim that a gold Patek phase de lune equation of time grand sonnerie tourbillon (etc) is the best watch in the world - if all it does is mist up in the rain!Well, that´s the point of Grand Seiko. Traditional and conservative design.
The "best in the world" is hardly ever to be taken seriously. The gist of OP is apparently that some swiss watch execs are quite impressed by Seikos. Provided they know what they're talking about, which, being execs, is unlikely.
They're just rather good watches, that's all.
Quite.
I find this sensible remark highly remarkable on TZ-UK as it is never ever made when Rolex is the best :albino:
I propose wis-dom starts doing that with Swiss watch marketing too :idea:
Including the ´magazines´, both in paper print and electronically, which are the advertorial extension written from the vested interest in the bread that is eaten :roll:
That may be true from an engineering standpoint, but all of their traditional sporting models (so, not the truck or that massive sedan they make) are noisy and uncomfortable when you're not at 10/10ths having an oh-the-steering-feedback moment. This means the trim can end up rattling like a million-mile Nissan Bluebird minicab after not so very long!
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Agree with Neil the power reserve totally unbalances the dial,and I wish they'd used GS or Grand Seiko not both.
I wonder what brands are they writing (swiss) about?
I love GS,hut too expensive for me (had King Seiko manual hi beat once)
I don't know if Seiko really makes the best mechanical watch in the world, but I have for a long time been very infatuated with the GS...
I recently discussed it with my indy watchmaker and his take on it was that the first GS models were at par with Omegas but noting more. This was a big disappointment for me, and I have to say that to this day I find his remark both snobbish and a bit below the belt. On the other hand, he never makes snobbish remarks, and no matter what I show him, he's always fair and and seems to appreciate and share my joy and excitement. When I first showed him my Aerospace he said "Well, if you should only own one watch for the rest of your life, that's definitely a good option"...
However, I have continuously entertained the thought of the GS, and hope to own one, one day. But at the price they come at, I'm still looking elsewhere for value before I give in to Seiya's kind nature and good offers.
In terms of bang for buck in the mechanical world, I very much agree ! You can't beat a Seiko ! :)
FFS, seriously.
Is there no escaping????
Oh dear... it's called sarcasm, spelt S A R C A S M. Really didn't think I'd have to spell it out, thought the laughing smiley might be enough for those that have trouble recognising tongue in cheek comments... :roll:
I'm a huge fan of Seiko but I'm not keen on the blue face limited edition. To be honest I'd prefer either of the black faced (SS or Ti) ones over the blue faced LE.
Is Watch Time available in somewhere like WHSmith? I'd like to read the article but can't ever remember seeing it outside airports (and usually ones in America). Does it mention which Swiss companies the directors work for?
I want to like the GS but I can't get past the power reserve design or the mess of fonts in the bottom half of the dial. No doubting the quality though.
Another Seiko fan here and a (recent) very proud owner of a Grand Seiko :D
What I do love about Seiko is that they offer something for everyone. You can buy a Seiko watch in probably a million places globally, with a watch of any style and suit any budget. Most of their watches are solid, reliable, basic timepieces, of modest cost. Their high end lines, GS and Credor for example, are truly excellent and compete with anything else (only my opinion!) at almost any price.
Before owning a one, the thing I found (and still do) most appealing about the GS line, is that Seiko offers, and successfully sells lot watches at < Ł100 and at every price point in between this and their flagship stuff. Therefore, logic (and the public's buying trends) tells me that even the highest priced pieces must offer good value, or they simply wouldn't sell :?: Can any other brand offer this 'perceived guarantee'? I cant think of any.
On a final note, My GS is beautifully finished, keeps time perfectly (Spring drive :wink: ), is comfortable, genuinely rare (in the UK at least) and offers something that is unique to the brand. Is it the "best mechanical watch in the world"? Probably not, but you won;t find me selling it anytime soon either :lol:
I'm on the list for another GS to replace the Titanium Spring drive diver i stupidly sold.......
(image borrowed from Arizona Fine Time)
mmmm 8) limited edition SD GMT. :drunken:
That GS in the OP is gorgeous.
I subscribe to the magazine. I read that article just a couple of days ago and really enjoyed it. I will see if I can scan and upload it.
By the way, if I remember correctly that same CEO then went on to say that the Grand Seiko does however have a major problem. It's called Seiko.
That dial is a mess.I'm on the list for another GS to replace the Titanium Spring drive diver i stupidly sold.......
(image borrowed from Arizona Fine Time)
mmmm 8) limited edition SD GMT. :drunken:
Seikos are "the best" the same way Toyota cars are "the best"... imho they have quality but lack any kind of emotion.
Emotion ? :lol: ^^
"PRS 3 + GREY Nato "
You wouldnt get it, would you ;)
Err..not sure :| you said the watches lack emotion right ? The quote, that's me liking a watch, the PRS 3 couldn't care less what I think, it's quartz, no soul :shock:"PRS 3 + GREY Nato "
You wouldnt get it, would you ;)
I'd prefer a good many Zenith movements over most Seiko movements. Maybe I'd like a Credor?
Seiko make and are capable of making some amazing movements and watches and I would really like to add a few one day.
Rolex are far from the best watches in the world (added to say regardless they have still made my all time favourite watch) - they weren't even stated as such by anyone on this thread either before the comment came up in its rejection.
I'm liking the Limited Edition GMT.
It's just a matter of time...
Best in the world? Obviously not.
Dufour, Mille, etc etc might disagree and rightly so.
Very good? Yes.
Worth the money? Up to the buyer.
Err..not sure :| you said the watches lack emotion right ? The quote, that's me liking a watch, the PRS 3 couldn't care less what I think, it's quartz, no soul :shock:"PRS 3 + GREY Nato "
You wouldnt get it, would you ;)
Fail to stir emotion then. think you know thats what was meant. English isnt my first language.
My point remains though.
Ok understand you now, I'm no WIS so wasn't sure at first, thought you meant the watches themselves had no emotions, or had been cruel or rude to you somehow! Not that crazy eh? It's a watch forum, :lol:Err..not sure :| you said the watches lack emotion right ? The quote, that's me liking a watch, the PRS 3 couldn't care less what I think, it's quartz, no soul :shock:"PRS 3 + GREY Nato "
You wouldnt get it, would you ;)
Fail to stir emotion then. think you know thats what was meant. English isnt my first language.
My point remains though.
I've just read the article and I'm very impressed. It's cirtainly changing how I think about the GS.
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