Tudor Pelagos

**nellyh** · 10th March 2012, 15:30

I really like the look of the Tudor Pelagos, but as I'm relatively new to this watch game I've got a questipn around the cost of various elements that make up a watch.

The Pelagos is quoted elsewhere at costing $4,400 and comes with a 2824 movement in it.
My 42mm Steinhart with the same movement in costs $300 new. So my question is, how much do the ceramic bezel, titanium case and extra depth rating on the Tudor cost? Do Tudor make some modifications to the ETA movement as well?

If Rolex produced a watch with their own movement in it that looked like that Tudor (42mm sub date ceramic without cyclops) I would be licking the windows in my AD, but a generic 2824 movement in the Tudor at that price puts me off - I'm just not sure if my feelings are fully justified.

Just to be clear, I've never held a Tudor so am not questioning their quality and not trolling, I'm just keen to understand the cost components in a watch.

**Omegamanic** · 10th March 2012, 15:39

It is a lot of money.

imho Tudor finish are on par, or in some cases a little about Omega.

The movement is a tricky one - but how much does this really add to a watch? In the Omega SMP300's Omega have this difference at £2400 for the Auto and £1500 for the Quartz, so I'd say that's £900!!! For the benefit of having a Co-Axial ETA - the 8500 were a bigger premium in the Omega AQ's, when the went from 2500 movement to 8500!

So, you could either say the heavily modified ETA in the Tudor makes the watch a better buy and lets it hit a much cheaper price point - or other in-house movement watches are better value.

At the end of the day the movement will be very well done and keep great time. The watch looks great and hopefully it will sell reasonably well.

**nellyh** · 10th March 2012, 15:43

So the movement will be heavily modified then? The Tudor website only mentioned it was a 2824, and as I have no prior knowledge of Tudor I wasn't sure.

**Daddelvirks** · 10th March 2012, 15:44

The movent is modified (for Tudor by ETA), and has a new micrometer-screw adjustment.
Compare this to a Breitling diver, also a 2824 (still with the normal Etachron regulator) and you see even higher prices.
I wouldn't pay this for an 2824 powered watch, but Tudor isn't alone in asking these prices.
Buy an U1 from Sinn, and you get more watch for a lot less money, but, there's no Rolex connection :)

Daddel.

**Omegamanic** · 10th March 2012, 15:48

Originally Posted by Daddelvirks

The movent is modified (for Tudor by ETA), and has a new micrometer-screw adjustment.
Compare this to a Breitling diver, also a 2824 (still with the normal Etachron regulator) and you see even higher prices.
I wouldn't pay this for an 2824 powered watch, but Tudor isn't alone in asking these prices.
Buy an U1 from Sinn, and you get more watch for a lot less money, but, there's no Rolex connection :)

Daddel.

It would also be a Sinn and unless they have moved the quality on - there is a fair amount of difference from my experience.

How do you know the movement is modified at ETA?

The movement is of course only part of the price - I'm waiting to see one and handle it - not going to be too easy given the UK AD status.

**Daddelvirks** · 10th March 2012, 16:02

Originally Posted by Omegamanic

Originally Posted by Daddelvirks

The movent is modified (for Tudor by ETA), and has a new micrometer-screw adjustment.
Compare this to a Breitling diver, also a 2824 (still with the normal Etachron regulator) and you see even higher prices.
I wouldn't pay this for an 2824 powered watch, but Tudor isn't alone in asking these prices.
Buy an U1 from Sinn, and you get more watch for a lot less money, but, there's no Rolex connection :)

Daddel.

It would also be a Sinn and unless they have moved the quality on - there is a fair amount of difference from my experience.

How do you know the movement is modified at ETA?

The movement is of course only part of the price - I'm waiting to see one and handle it - not going to be too easy given the UK AD status.

To my knowledge Tudor let ETA make that movement to their own specification.
Cartier and Ebel do this with quartz movements as well.

Daddel.

**nellyh** · 10th March 2012, 16:07

I was hoping to try one in the US, but another forum suggested the Pelagos won't be sold there either.

May be a while before I get a view of one too.

**london lad** · 10th March 2012, 17:34

The Tudor is titanium which is much harder to machine well than steel, which maybe why it looks bead blasted in the photos.

**ColDaspin** · 10th March 2012, 22:11

To the question "... how much do the ceramic bezel, titanium case and extra depth rating on the Tudor cost?", the answer I'd guess is a few hundred bucks (if that) more than the cost of the equivalent components of the Steinhart. If you're trying to justify the price difference between a Steinhart and any brand such as Tudor, you'll never be able to get close by looking purely at the cost of components. You're paying for the brand.

**W44NNE** · 10th March 2012, 22:20

The Pelagos is a stunning watch but the main thing for me is the clasp... It looks amazing!

Apart from that though, the watch is looking like it will be second hand Rolex sports money (well in comparison to the current market of course) so what would you go for?

I would like a Pelagos I think but if it starts with a £3XXX, it'd more than likely be left alone by myself.

**rasputin10** · 10th March 2012, 22:21

with the greatest respect to Steinhart, they are rightly or wrongly copying other brands with a lot of their models, whereas Tudor have developed a new watch design with some nice features which includes some of their heritage elements.

does this fully justify the price difference? Probably not, but it is why I am interested in the Tudor and not many Steinharts. :bom:

**Billyloves2boogie** · 10th March 2012, 22:49

You simply cannot price a luxury branded item by the sum of its parts. How much do you think the actual leather of a Louis Vuitton handbag costs? Its an aspirational buy & not a practical one otherwise we'd all be wearing Casios.

**Verso** · 10th March 2012, 23:20

ALL the prices of Luxury watches are skyhigh when compared to the cost of material and labor. It doesn't matter if is ETA , modified ETA of Manufacture. Even the price of Rolex is not justifeid if to try to look at costs in that way. To take Rolex as an example, with their production volume the cost of the movement cannot be significantly more than a modified ETA (each of the movements that Rolex make will have production numbers running in hundreds of thousands to well over million when produced over a couple of years).

So why bother, ETA, modified ETA or in-hous movement?

**PCP** · 10th March 2012, 23:37

Originally Posted by Billyloves2boogie

You simply cannot price a luxury branded item by the sum of its parts. How much do you think the actual leather of a Louis Vuitton handbag costs? Its an aspirational buy & not a practical one otherwise we'd all be wearing Casios.

Agreed. I don't work out the component costs before purchasing a house / car / TV / clothing ..... so why would I do it when buying a watch?

If you like the watch and are prepared to pay the price, buy it. If not, move on - plenty more out there.

**pashmolean** · 10th March 2012, 23:48

Personally, I like the fact that Tudor haven't felt the need to rename the movement, thus disguising it's origin.

It's a 2824....so that's what we'll call it.

Refreshing.

**Retep** · 10th March 2012, 23:49

The Pelagos should not be in titanium. It should have been in steel IMHO...

**nellyh** · 11th March 2012, 01:50

Thanks all. I guess I need to handle one to see the quality, which may be tough given the limits on ADs :(

**Tommie85** · 11th March 2012, 09:04

Read that the price in The Netherlands would be 3150 euro's. That came from a dealer.
That is a really good price!

**london lad** · 11th March 2012, 10:00

Originally Posted by Retep

The Pelagos should not be in titanium. It should have been in steel IMHO...

The Titanium is the main reason I would consider buying it but I would prefer it not to have the blasted finish.

**pashmolean** · 11th March 2012, 10:30

Originally Posted by london lad

Originally Posted by Retep

The Pelagos should not be in titanium. It should have been in steel IMHO...

The Titanium is the main reason I would consider buying it but I would prefer it not to have the blasted finish.

it doesn't have a blasted finish. If you look at the images on the website you can see quite clearly that it's brushed.

**Verso** · 11th March 2012, 10:50

Originally Posted by Tommie85

Read that the price in The Netherlands would be 3150 euro's. That came from a dealer.
That is a really good price!

Now that's indeed a very good price!

**london lad** · 11th March 2012, 11:03

Originally Posted by pashmolean

Originally Posted by london lad

Originally Posted by Retep

The Pelagos should not be in titanium. It should have been in steel IMHO...

The Titanium is the main reason I would consider buying it but I would prefer it not to have the blasted finish.

it doesn't have a blasted finish. If you look at the images on the website you can see quite clearly that it's brushed.

I think you will find its blasted and then brushed as that dark grey is not the natural finish of titanium unless it's blasted.

Naturally it's silver much like steel. The light on the right below is natural Ti, the one on the left and the head of the one in the centre have some areas bead blasted. It makes it look like a different material.

Ti is hard to machine so lots of manufacturers resort to bead blasting to cover machining marks which is a pity as it hides the natural beauty of the Ti (IMHO)

**DaanL** · 11th March 2012, 11:18

Originally Posted by Verso

Originally Posted by Tommie85

Read that the price in The Netherlands would be 3150 euro's. That came from a dealer.
That is a really good price!

Now that's indeed a very good price!

Thats less than the current retail for a Heritage Chrono (excl discounts), not too bad indeed.

**pashmolean** · 11th March 2012, 11:20

Oh, ok.

I have bead blasted watches and, to the eye, they have no texture. Whereas the steel watches I have that are brushed have a directional grain, much like the side of the Pelagos case.

If the Pelagos was bead blasted in the way I interpret it, dull and mat with no surface texture, I wouldn't be interested but as you can see the grain from the brushing on the Pelagos, I'm still in.

**witti** · 11th March 2012, 12:12

Agree, it's better they don't use the most famous Swiss movement modification method..... "rename a 2824 and voila you have your own movement"
Anyway, if you like the watch so much, maybe you can live with it, even if it has a 2824.
But if you are a kind of a wis who is aware what movement his watch is sporting...don't f**ing pay $4400 for a watch with an ETA 2824 IMHO
We all know where the price difference between a Tudor (or whatever) and a Steinhart goes. And it is mostly not the more expensive technology, but:
Brand image - marketing, premium profit etc. ...as long as there are enough monkeys to pay extra and support that system with their wallet. :?

**andrew** · 11th March 2012, 12:39

Originally Posted by witti

We all know where the price difference between a Tudor (or whatever) and a Steinhart goes. And it is mostly not the more expensive technology, but:
Brand image - marketing, premium profit etc. ...as long as there are enough monkeys to pay extra and support that system with their wallet. :?

A neat soundbyte but have you considered that Tudor has to support a good design department, higher quality materials and manufacture (sigh... it's not just all about the bloody movement :roll:) global distribution, advertising, service...? Or should all these things be made "free"?

**witti** · 11th March 2012, 13:10

Originally Posted by andrew

Originally Posted by witti

We all know where the price difference between a Tudor (or whatever) and a Steinhart goes. And it is mostly not the more expensive technology, but:
Brand image - marketing, premium profit etc. ...as long as there are enough monkeys to pay extra and support that system with their wallet. :?

A neat soundbyte but have you considered that Tudor has to support a good design department, higher quality materials and manufacture (sigh... it's not just all about the bloody movement :roll:) global distribution, advertising, service...? Or should all these things be made "free"?

Agree, obviously they have more expenses too. This is why I said "mostly". I still think the difference between $300 and $4400 is not justified by those expenses.
I forgot to mention I actually like the watch :) just don't like the shameless pricing policy of the big Swiss brands. That's all

**adesmith** · 11th March 2012, 13:23

Originally Posted by Tommie85

Read that the price in The Netherlands would be 3150 euro's. That came from a dealer.
That is a really good price!

So would we think the Black Bay would be cheaper than this? I bloody hope so as I am getting one as soon as I can get my hands on one.

Anyone know what discounts could be expected with Tudor?

**Verso** · 11th March 2012, 14:34

Originally Posted by adesmith

Originally Posted by Tommie85

Read that the price in The Netherlands would be 3150 euro's. That came from a dealer.
That is a really good price!

So would we think the Black Bay would be cheaper than this? I bloody hope so as I am getting one as soon as I can get my hands on one.

Anyone know what discounts could be expected with Tudor?

Looking at the reaction on several Watch Forums, I think there will be a good demand for this watch from the start. So don't expect too much on discount from the start if you want to be one of the first to own one.

**Verso** · 11th March 2012, 14:49

Originally Posted by witti

Originally Posted by andrew

Originally Posted by witti

We all know where the price difference between a Tudor (or whatever) and a Steinhart goes. And it is mostly not the more expensive technology, but:
Brand image - marketing, premium profit etc. ...as long as there are enough monkeys to pay extra and support that system with their wallet. :?

A neat soundbyte but have you considered that Tudor has to support a good design department, higher quality materials and manufacture (sigh... it's not just all about the bloody movement :roll:) global distribution, advertising, service...? Or should all these things be made "free"?

Agree, obviously they have more expenses too. This is why I said "mostly". I still think the difference between $300 and $4400 is not justified by those expenses.
I forgot to mention I actually like the watch :) just don't like the shameless pricing policy of the big Swiss brands. That's all

The focus is too much on the ETA movement. Take their parent company as an example. Cases, bracelet a.o. of Tudor and Rolex are comparable, so the difference is mainly the in-house versus the ETA movement. If we take the Rolex 3135 caliber as an example (also used in sub). This 3135 must have been several hundreds of thousand times produced by Rolex. Rolex Sub is way more expensive then Tudor Sub.

But let's take a very, very conservative calculation. If a Rolex Sub would only be 1.000 Euro more expensive than a Tudor Sub. And if Rolex were only able to produce just 100.000 calibres 3135. Then the extra income for Rolex for putting a 3135 in a watch is 1.000 x 100.000. That's a stunning 100 million (100.000.000 Euro's). For what? 90% of how a movement works is standard, no matter if it's a Patek, a Rolex of an ETA. So let's get real, I personally think that the pricing policy on in-house movement is even worse. Except for the very small brands who cannot spread the development costs over huge quatities of watches.

So forget about the movement, don't think too much on the margins they make, if you like the watch and have the money, buy it.

And yes, I'm interested very much in this Pelagos.

**Finch** · 11th March 2012, 15:14

Black Bay with leather strap will be around 2400€ & with bracelet around 2800€!

So if the Pelagos is around 3150€ it´s not that bad,imo! :wink:

Nice watches! :P

**andrew** · 11th March 2012, 18:27

Originally Posted by witti

Agree, obviously they have more expenses too. This is why I said "mostly". I still think the difference between $300 and $4400 is not justified by those expenses.
I forgot to mention I actually like the watch :) just don't like the shameless pricing policy of the big Swiss brands. That's all

Oh the skyrocketing of Tudor's prices is even more vertical than Rolex's; in 2006, a Hydronaut with equivalent specification was £800, and I wouldn't buy one either because of the price. But the movement is only part of the watch, and I agree there is no way to measure the objective benefit of "design", except in the eye of the beholder and the control he has of his wallet :)

Looks like Steinhart's entry-level diver is around 330 EUR+tax. In the UK, that would be about £330, vs £2,330 for the Tudor on a bracelet. 7 times more expensive.

**yonsson** · 11th March 2012, 20:01

It's a great looking watch, but why use titanium in a mid sized diver? -It wouldn't even be too heavy in steel.
If it would have been steel, the price would have been lower, and I would have been a lot more likely to buy it. Both because of the weight and the price. Titanium is for air, not sea.

**pashmolean** · 11th March 2012, 22:38