Automatic Vs Manual Wind

[MrLion]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but nothing coming up on the search function.

Is it true to say that a manual wind movement can be considered more robust and less prone to issues than an auto self-winding movement?

If the above is true then it follows that service interval may be longer.

What are the views amongst the learned? :)

Also, can folks list some of the more modern manual winders available?

[markosgr28]

I'm not an expert in that, but in engineering in general less parts mean less possibility of failure.

Nowadays most mechanical watches I think are automatic, so probably these movements, in the price range that most people can afford, have been more thoroughly tested and developed. On the other hand many very expensive watches (100K+ UK pounds) have manual winding movements.

Probably there is no accurate answer to your question, because if you want to compare the robustness and the reliability of two mechanisms, you should test several of them under the exact same conditions.

[MMC]

Is it true to say that a manual wind movement can be considered more robust and less prone to issues than an auto self-winding movement?

If the above is true then it follows that service interval may be longer.

Not quite the same thing. Manuals have fewer parts and thus less to go wrong. Also, there's no weight whizzing around on a pivot to wear. But that increased robustness doesn't equate to longer intervals. The oil still evaporates and hardens at the same rate, so a manual and an auto will still need servicing at the same point.

But does it make a lot of difference in the real world? Probably not. I'm as happy wearing an auto for everything as I am a manual wind.

Give a Nomos a go - gorgeous manual movements.

[Kutusov]

Yeah, I agree with MMC. Theoretically, there's less moving parts, so less things to go wrong. But there's still 17 or 19 jewels left, so points of friction. Those need the same kind of service, an auto is just an added complication (?).

Personally, and given the choice, I prefer wind ups every time. They tend to be a little cheaper and I just don't get the benefit of an auto watch as I rarely wear the same watch two days straight. I also enjoy winding them up all the way.

[MrLion]

Thanks for comments chaps - I own a few manual wind watches (vintage Omega). Service frequency comments make sense and likewise robustness of movement due to fewer moving parts.

The Nomos sounds interesting, are there any more modern manual winders around?

[horrovac]

If it isn't there, it can't break.

Service intervals however are not determined by the mechanical robustness (you don't service a watch because parts need replacing but because it needs lubrication), so they will be unaffected.

Manual wind watches have a number of pro arguments. They are thinner, lighter, the power input is controlled by your winding so accuracy depends less on your wearing patterns, and winding the watch is a pleasurable interaction with the watch to many enthusiasts. The simplicity of the movement is something many find æsthetically pleasing - myself included.

[Kutusov]

The Nomos sounds interesting, are there any more modern manual winders around?

Lots!! The Seagull ST19, the Russian 31xx or 26xx, the Swiss Unitas 6497, ETA 2801...

[andy tims]

With hand wound watches, you have to pull the crown out & wind them each day (or thereabouts). This increases wear & tear on the stem + seals.

[Gruntfuttock]

It depends. If you have a screw-down crown manual, then there is a high probability if thread stripping unless you are careful. This really only applies if you wear the one watch everyday. In rotation as part of a collection, the difference is not significant.

[Kutusov]

With hand wound watches, you have to pull the crown out & wind them each day (or thereabouts). This increases wear & tear on the stem + seals.

That's a good point and I guess it depends on how you store your autos. That's not an issue if you keep them on a winder but, if you do, some are of the opinion that that also constitutes wear and tear on the watch as its parts are constantly running.

I guess there are ups and downs both ways... besides, most of times you can't choose between auto and wind up. If you like a watch, it comes with the movement it comes with, I can't think of many watches where you can pick between the two.

EDIT: also good point above. You don't need to pull out the crown if it's a non-screw down crown.

[eagletower]

With hand wound watches, you have to pull the crown out & wind them each day (or thereabouts). This increases wear & tear on the stem + seals.

On both my hand wound watches you do not need to pull the crown out to wind them. You just turn and wind.

[andy tims]

With hand wound watches, you have to pull the crown out & wind them each day (or thereabouts). This increases wear & tear on the stem + seals.

On both my hand wound watches you do not need to pull the crown out to wind them. You just turn and wind.

They (like most hand wounds I guess) don't have screw down crowns, but the winding still causes wear.

I'm just saying it's not black & white.

[MackThePen]

The Nomos sounds interesting, are there any more modern manual winders around?

You may have heard of Smiths??

Andrew

[MrLion]

The Nomos sounds interesting, are there any more modern manual winders around?

You may have heard of Smiths??

Andrew

Yes indeedy, Eddies offers the Smiths Military hand-wound

[tim2012]

A watch is filled with moving parts and I don't think there will be a significant difference between the two. Does a 7 days hand wound have less wear than an automatic? Not if you run them for the same period. :(

[MrLion]

The Nomos sounds interesting, are there any more modern manual winders around?

Lots!! The Seagull ST19, the Russian 31xx or 26xx, the Swiss Unitas 6497, ETA 2801...

Thanks, I'll have a look around for those movements.

[Kutusov]

As to wear and tear, you would have to measure everything in a laboratory and you would probably come up with differences not significative on real life. And then there's the thing about what watch we are talking about as some are tougher than others. And how and where you run them... and... and...

I think the real difference comes down to personal taste as you can't really choose between the two for 99% of the cases. A new Rolex is automatic (AFAIK), a Strela is a wind-up, a Steinhart Marine Vintage is wind-up only, etc.

[xpatUSA]

Lots of mention of wear in this topic! If people are really concerned about wear caused by winding a watch, by hand, by wrist motion or by toggling on an auto winder, they'd best put their watch in a drawer and use their mobile/cell phone to check the time or even look at the sun :D

[MrLion]

I'm not overly concerned about wear - just interested in some opinions and a list of manual wind movements.

[birdynamnam]

I really don't know if auto is much more fragile than HW.
But,it's a real pleasure to wind up my watch every day ...
A pleasure of WIS...

My beloved HW:



:wink:

laurent

[horrovac]

I really don't know if auto is much more fragile than HW.
But,it's a real pleasure to wind up my watch every day ...
A pleasure of WIS...

My beloved HW:

I'd like to know more about this watch... Could you tell me what make it is and which movement it houses? Brilliant watch.

[spluurfg]

With hand wound watches, you have to pull the crown out & wind them each day (or thereabouts). This increases wear & tear on the stem + seals.

And also the keyless works, which is a bunch of gears and pinions and other interesting shapes. Unlike the geartrain, which deals with roughly constant pressure, this will have to deal with whatever speed the user feels like winding. The robustness here depends on the design of the movement.

[birdynamnam]

I'd like to know more about this watch... Could you tell me what make it is and which movement it houses? Brilliant watch.

Dear Horrovac,

This CWC is a civilian version of the issued RAF chrono.
The movement is a valjoux 7765 IIRC.
Domes plexi & beadblasted 39mm case...

I love this dial
:drunken:

Cheers,

laurent

[horrovac]

I'd like to know more about this watch... Could you tell me what make it is and which movement it houses? Brilliant watch.

Dear Horrovac,

This CWC is a civilian version of the issued RAF chrono.
The movement is a valjoux 7765 IIRC.
Domes plexi & beadblasted 39mm case...

I love this dial
:drunken:

It is indeed very striking, with all the assymetry. I really like it a lot - thanks for the info :)

[horrovac]

With hand wound watches, you have to pull the crown out & wind them each day (or thereabouts). This increases wear & tear on the stem + seals.

And also the keyless works, which is a bunch of gears and pinions and other interesting shapes. Unlike the geartrain, which deals with roughly constant pressure, this will have to deal with whatever speed the user feels like winding. The robustness here depends on the design of the movement.

It's fine. Seriously. You worry too much. Watches have existed hundreds of years before automatic winding, I own watches which I have been winding for years and which others have been winding before me, a couple are more than a hundred years old, and it's perfectly fine, hardly a trace of wear visible, let alone "worn down". That's what they are made for, and they can cope, it's not like you're putting hundreds of Newtonmetres on it at a couple of thousand RPM when you're using your fingers to wind a watch. It's absolutely fine.