Reply With QuoteA lot of the Pateks have microrotors - they make the movement look more intricate and beautiful IMO. The Worldtimer and 5712 are my fave's.
Originally Posted by jeromeo
This is mine..
Crazy thin.
Wow, this looks good. What are the dimensions of the case, and how old is it please? :)
A lot of the Pateks have microrotors - they make the movement look more intricate and beautiful IMO. The Worldtimer and 5712 are my fave's.
They are much more popular in the real world than on watch forums. The Mille Miglia range has been a huge seller for them.
Their top-end stuff is as good as anybody's.
john
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
In answer to mr davinci
Wow, this looks good. What are the dimensions of the case, and how old is it please? :)
The watch is a universal golden shadow.
BIg article here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Gen%C3%A8ve
Case is 34mm, and only 2/5mm thick excluding the crystal.
dated to 1965 and the thinnest auto watch at teh time I believe.
This was the first nice watch I bought myself, and easily the most beautiful..
this watch is now with me :D , i'm away for a couple of days tomorrow, and i'll be wearing it so i'll report back 8)
Have this one in my collection.
Aristo with an ronda Harley micro rotor engine.
............
Hans
Zeno used to offer a model with the same movement (a tad more posh) but when I tried to order it Eddie put me off due to the power reserve. Are you having any issues with it?
john
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
Besides several Calibre 12 microrotor watches, I had this Hamilton (Buren):
This looks like a fantastic watch. The case-work looks very high-class, and the movement is very pretty.
Trust me, there's a microrotor in there.
The prettiest today must be the Guinand Buren 12 Chronomatic.
john
Where is the rotor? Can you see it move at all, or is it completely concealed?
The early citizen autos used a similar solution to the beautiful Carl f. Bucherer pictured earlier:
It can be found in watches such as the citizen jet, Super precision, Automated, etc.
These can often be picked up in good condition for under $100...
The micro-rotor can only be viewed with the movement out of the case, its visible from the side.This looks like a fantastic watch. The case-work looks very high-class, and the movement is very pretty.
Trust me, there's a microrotor in there.
The prettiest today must be the Guinand Buren 12 Chronomatic.
john
Where is the rotor? Can you see it move at all, or is it completely concealed?
Regards,
James.
Re: the Guinand Buren 12 Chronomatic
Unfortunately the price of it went up by 50% the last couple of years. They are all pricing themselves out of the market. :(
john
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
well, it's been on wrist for three days now, and is keeping time well, no power reserve issues here....this watch is now with me :D , i'm away for a couple of days tomorrow, and i'll be wearing it so i'll report back 8)
Have this one in my collection.
Aristo with an ronda Harley micro rotor engine.
............
Hans
Zeno used to offer a model with the same movement (a tad more posh) but when I tried to order it Eddie put me off due to the power reserve. Are you having any issues with it?
john
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
I like that a lot. The movement looks very pretty, in a functional way, plus it almost hides it's ingenuity.
The micro-rotor can only be viewed with the movement out of the case, its visible from the side.
Regards,
James.
Very nice, are there any special advantages to micro rotors? I can imagine that the do not have the '7750' sound but apart from that...?
The advantage is that the design allows a thinner movement, therefore a thinner watch or more room for other complications.Very nice, are there any special advantages to micro rotors? I can imagine that the do not have the '7750' sound but apart from that...?
This is true but it also means that the mass of the rotor is reduced and therefore not very efficient at generating or maintaining a power reserve. You would need to be extremely active to keep a microrotor watch running by automatic winding alone.
When the calibre 10 chronograph was introduced, this already had a chronograph module on a standard movement and to put a rotor on top of that it would have been way too thick. That's when someone came up with the idea of a microrotor recessed into the movement.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I can't speak for any other movements, but I have a Call 11 Heuer and have had a Cal 12, and they've both been fine without any manual winding needed to top up. I don't doubt that it's less efficient, but the two movements above at least seem practical enough as daily wearers - and I'm not the most active person in the world.This is true but it also means that the mass of the rotor is reduced and therefore not very efficient at generating or maintaining a power reserve. You would need to be extremely active to keep a microrotor watch running by automatic winding alone.
The mass might be smaller, but the real determinant is the mainspring strength. You'll need more torque to wind a stronger spring, so it's doubtful you could get a monster like the Zenith EP's single mainspring wound with a small microrotor, but presumably one could just design a movement that required less torque to wind by using a weaker mainspring. Reducing the torque needed to run the movement (smaller balance, lower vph, fewer complications) can also get the power reserve up to a more practical level.This is true but it also means that the mass of the rotor is reduced and therefore not very efficient at generating or maintaining a power reserve. You would need to be extremely active to keep a microrotor watch running by automatic winding alone.
When the calibre 10 chronograph was introduced, this already had a chronograph module on a standard movement and to put a rotor on top of that it would have been way too thick. That's when someone came up with the idea of a microrotor recessed into the movement.
Eddie
Chopard in their LUC X.96 impressively got a micro-rotor movement to wind a dual mainspring barrel with 65hr reserve, as well as using a 28800vph balance. Piaget manages 'only' a 44hr reserve on a 21,600vph movement.
Having said that I haven't seen any modern microrotor movements that didn't have the oscillating weight in gold or tungsten or some other very very heavy metal.
A blast from the past - after almost 2 years of development - here's an affordable micro-rotor that's going to Kickstarter in July/August - (full disclosure - it's my own brand) - the Sólás Starlight.
Can confirm that the rotor is a tungsten alloy which negates the problem with winding efficiency. Patek uses gold of course, but the Starlight probably costs a fraction of the Patek's rotor cost (at circa £320-360ish - 349-399 euro)
Here's a pic btw (it has an aventurine dial and exhibition micro-rotor back). The picture is from a prototype 2 generations ago but I'm hoping to get the last final production version from the factory in 2 weeks to take new pictures of:
Ye cannae change the laws of physics.
A small rotor is never as efficient as a bigger one, it can’t be. I’ve never found them appealing.
The Omega 1010 was a very slim movement with a full- size rotor, proved it could be done in the early 70s.
I’ve serviced precisely one micro- rotor movement, can’t remember what it was but it struck me as a daft idea.
That’s not entirely true Paul, it all depends on the material that the rotor is made of and where the centre of mass lies relative to the centre of rotation.
A heavier metal micro rotor (gold, platinum, tungsten etc) can be just as efficient as a full size steel rotor.
Ultimately though, as long as the winding is adequate to keep the main spring fully wound then it’s all irrelevant anyway.
Even using a denser material, a small rotor is struggling to generate as much torque when it moves ( unless the law of the lever has changed?)
As for fully winding the mainspring, that depends on other factors such as the strength of the spring and the gearing of the winding wheels. Lower gearing has an adverse effect on winding efficiency, and a softer mainspring means less torque applied to the train wheels so the amplitude will be limited.
Compromises have to be made to accommodate a rotor which, for a given amount of motion imparted by the wearer if the watch, won’t produce as much torque. The only upside is a slimmer movement, which some manufacturers achieved by using conventional design.
I’m definitely not a fan!
Considering the quality of the movements with micro rotor (PP, Piaget, Chopard, etc.) I don't think efficiency is such an issue. It is an extremely elegant solution to showcase the calibre on an automatic watch. While it may indeed come with a reduced torque compared with a full sized steel rotor (with no holes), the brands above and more haven't evidenced any issues in term of reliability, maintenance or anything.
It is possible that they are more delicate to service, however.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
That's not the only upside - aesthetically is probably the main reason nowadays as it allows unobstructed viewing of high end finishing. This Laurent Ferrier is the best example of why micro rotors are popular -
Having said aesthetics are the main reason, in terms of thinness, the Bvlgari Octo wouldn't be possible otherwise -
Still not a fan!
I’m happy to cover a movement up with a metal caseback.
Heathen, burn him!!!!
Having said all of that about micro-movements, it is entirely possible to have outstanding full rotor autos. This is my favourite auto movement (note the Gronefeld brothers decidedly did not want a micro-rotor auto movement when designing, due to the winding efficiency).
The modern method of allowing the movement to be seen in autos is the Peripheral Rotor...
The Peripheral Rotor
https://monochrome-watches.com/techn...matic-winding/
https://www.watch-wiki.net/index.php...ripheral_rotor
Last edited by abraxas; 29th June 2020 at 10:37.
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
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