Reply With QuoteI switched years ago and haven't lapsed or looked back. Anyone on the fence might find this worth a look:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46697036
This place is worth a look if you are after cheap liquids, I have been buying from here since I started vaping, usually buy 15 at a time, costs about £17.50 all in.
https://www.onepoundeliquid.com/
I switched years ago and haven't lapsed or looked back. Anyone on the fence might find this worth a look:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46697036
Anyone looking to buy quality vape juice at a low price (never use the word che*p) have look here
https://nejuice.co.uk/
OK so yes I must add it is my sons very own mixing business, he only uses premium liquids and our host (Eddie) is just one of his very happy customers.
To be honest I did use his products before I managed to quit vaping and smoking (within six months) but recently lapsed back while on holiday so a new year resolution should help that situation...
Should you place an order please add a comment that you found him through TZ-UK and I will personally donate £1 to the fundraiser for every order he receives from TZ-UK members.
Have a safe new year guys and keep well whatever 2019 has in store for us.
Les
I think vaping is an excellent gateway to a healthier life and I can't for the life of me understand why all smokers who can't quit using willpower don't vape instead, but there is one point I wonder about.
Do you ex-smokers who have been vaping for a few years still vape with liquid containing nicotine? Once you are off the cigs and on the vapes for a few years, and assuming you've managed to wean yourself off the nicotine liquids of course, do you still carry on vaping or stop?
I would have thought that with nicotine being the main addiction once that has gone it would be as easy as breaking any other habit to stop completely, or am I missing something obvious?!
Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke
That is exactly what I did, gradually reducing the nicotine down to zero then after a month or so just didn't feel the need to inhale, everyone has a story to tell but my downfall was just one ciggy after a meal and back on the roll ups... silly but true lol
BUT .... Note what's happened n Australia and the country's concerns regarding addicted schoolchildren:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-65522841
Anyone dependent on e-cigarettes is an addict – but they'll likely defend their right to not only vape themselves but to also try and influence others to do the same – ignorant of the fact that vaping smoke can compromise an individual's oral microbiome and thus their immune system.
Last edited by sundial; 28th May 2023 at 13:23.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Seeing this zombie thread reincarnated and seeing his posts reminded me of my old pal Inspector Gadget (Les) who is unfortunately no longer with us.
RIP Les.
Cheers,
Neil.
Nothing we do in life is 100% safe but e-vapes are massively safer than smoking . Nicotine itself has hardly any recognisable health impact and a few accepted benefits .
Since they became mainstream the press has constantly tried to villify them despite every major health body giving them the thumbs up,
“ vaping smoke can compromise an individual's oral microbiome and thus their immune system”
I mean what does that even mean ? It sounds like utter nonsense especially compared with the stark hard cold fact that smoking tobacco ultimately kills 50% of the people that do it .
Make vapes available everywhere stop villifying something that is massively beneficial to the lifespan of millions of people. I’d be more worried about eating salmon.
You're correct about salmon but appear to know very little, if anything, about the oral microbiome. Dismissing something you do not know the meaning of and suggesting it's nonsense speaks volumes to others about your lack of knowledge.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Excuse me . My dismissal of your claim about vaping unbalancing the oral microbiome does not mean I don’t understand the terminology it means I don’t understand the point of the meaningless statement I quoted .
EVERYTHING you stick in your mouth “unbalances” your oral biome . ( the very idea of “balance” in natural complex systems is nonsense as anyone who ever studied ecology : which is actually the study of systems not the environment , flux is the norm) .
Alcohol , bleach , coke , mouthwash , salt and vinegar crisps even a glass of milk or water .
My point was as a statement its meaningless rubbish . You may of course take the easy option and hector about how I’m somehow being ignorant but maybe look before you leap sonny jim.
Look back many decades and every actor/actress was seen smoking in films!.No wonder every Man & his dog smoked,it was seen as cool,just as it still is with the under teens today.
I guess back then they said it was safe,and why would they think any different!,they didnt really have the science weve had for many years to see it really isnt good at all for your health.
Can we say the same for vaping,we can only hope not but I can't see anythi g good about it.Ive never smoked,and so dont get spending £× on something,putting a match to it sucking smoke in & then blowing it out lol,looks damn odd to me.
A friend has cpd and can hardly walk,yes you guessed still smokes a roll up every 5 mins.Went on a cruise with Her in a group many years ago,missed all shows,only did the buffet whilst the rest enjoyed our meals together!.
Good is smoking......Not.
Last edited by P9CLY; 28th May 2023 at 15:56.
[QUOTE=P9CLY;6217894
Can we say the same for vaping,we can only hope not but I can't see anythi g good about it.
Good is smoking......Not.[/QUOTE]
This is my point about vaping though . There are hundreds of studies that vlearly show little to no health impacts from vaping . To the extent that the NHS want to hand them out for free to cut deaths from smoking .
But people love to seemingly ignore that in favour of nonsenses such as “unbalancing oral biomes” from rinky dink organisations in Australia no less.
You also don’t hear people talking about the scientific studies which say nicotene has barely any identifiable health risks but clearly shows some correlation with absence of certain stomach cancers and a reduced liklihood of Alzheimer’s in old age .
Scare mongering nonsense . Vapes are brilliant , safe and if you like nicotene fill your boots . Just don’t keep smoking thinking that you may as well as the vapes also have health risks . That’s probably the greatest health risk in the whole nonsensical debate .
My mortgage broker tried to sell me insurance against loss of life, work and ability to work. One of the questions they asked was have I used any nicotine products within the last year. I don’t purport to know anything about the effects of nicotine use but clearly the insurers see risk in it.
Your ideas and assumptions appear to be at odds with published studies prepared by learned organisations – links to just a few hereunder:
https://thelandingdentalspa.com/4-re...r-oral-health/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-...e%2Dcigarettes.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackier...ond-the-mouth/
https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publi...icrobiome.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...89004220300687
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...igarettes.html
https://portlandperioimplantcenter.c...e-oral-cancer/
– and there are many more studies published online which all suggest that vaping increases risks of disease
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Conjecture from a cosmetic dental company trying yo drum up trade.
A study of a tiny sample group that reaches zero conclusions beyond a data pattern of e vape users having biomes similar to smokers and non smokers and all had gum disease before the test.
Same tenuous study as before reported in forbes ( Forbes is extrmemy dubious as an unbiased news source)
Same tenuous meaningless study . Zero conclusions or evidence regarding vaping being a cause for concern. It is at least more verbose , they even highlight the limitations of the data in the study being generated in vitro .
Same study reported in some backwater website ,
Smokers and e vapers in a laughably tiny sample show more dna errors in their epiphelial cells than non smokers ; no causal link established with oral cancer , absolute conjecture , the rest of the article is a scare piece on teenage vaoers and jewel evapes.
The daily mail , conjecturing and scaremongeting with zero evidence. Syrprise surprise
Private dental company making lots of claims and allysions to the above articles which can offer zero causal link to oral cancer being caused by vaping . Trotting out the same nonsense with no proof , conjecture and scaremongering . It clearly states evaping is safer than smoking and it also makes many factually untrue claims regarding nicotine health concerns and totally contradicts itself.
Really ? Shame you don’t seem to be able to find any of these studies.
Maybe try reading the study ( its actually only one done 2 years ago constantly referred and repeated) … and its a study not a published scientific article put up for peer review.
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/hea...sionals/safety
The existing research led both Public Health England (PHE) and the Royal College of Physicians (RCP) to release reports highlighting the relative safety of alternative nicotine products and e-cigarettes compared to smoking.[6,7] However, as e-cigarettes are a relatively new product, their long term health consequences are not known. They should be viewed as a tool for quitting smoking only and should never be used by people who haven't smoked.
Cancer Research UK has a joint positioning statement with many health organisations, outlining a shared agreement that e-cigarettes are significantly less harmful than smoking,[8] as well as a positioning statement with the Royal College of General Practitioners (RCGP).
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
I’ll not give this up any time soon. No time for fags though.
As I understand it, vaping is less harmful than smoking but not vaping is less harmful than both.
There’s a lot of concern about the effect of inhaling atmospheric particulates generally. Also inhaling nicotine and chemical flavourings into the lungs seems a bad idea unless it’s a short term measure as an aid to stopping smoking.
The real dangers of vaping are unknown yet, give it a couple of decade's
The ingredients in the “juice” in evapes is propylene glycol and/or vegetable glycol , flavourings and pharma grade nicotine,
PG and VG is used in air conditioning systems including in hospitals as a hemectuant ( moisturiser) and has been for about 50 years . Its also the major ingredient in things like nebulizers in neonatal wards.
The flavourings used in evape juices are the same ones used in food and vetted and approved by the government.
The scaremongering reports about nickel and lead in evapes are referring to illegally imported and sold evapes , they even say that in the articles .
How many illegal ones are out there? No one knows and no one knows what's in them. In 20yrs time if/when the diagnoses come in its all too late
I quit smoking endless roll-ups in 2014 by using vaping. It probably saved my life. I started on a very high nicotine concentration and tapered it down over the years. I'm sure it's preferable not to vape at all but as the NHS says. It is far better to vape than to smoke. It is a good thing to stop vaping if you can. But not at the risk of going back to smoking. Smoking is an insidious addiction. A terrible trap that awaits the unwary. Vaping is one of the best ways to escape it.
Last edited by A440; 28th May 2023 at 19:31.
Last edited by sundial; 28th May 2023 at 19:38.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
And what ? You can go “I told you so?” .
Evapes have been around for 20 years at least . Their byproducts and their toxicity levels are well understood.
Nothing damning has been found about their use. By investigations and analysis around the planet.
Do you know that nicotine use has zero health impact other than elevated blood pressure and that is only even notable as a possible consideration for people with pre-existing heart conditions.
Did you know that strong causal links have been made between Nicotene and lower than average incidences of certain types of stomach cancer , Alzheimers and Parkinson’s . Nicotine is also seen to be as effective as Ritalin in the treatment of ADHD .
However 99% of people will say that nicotine causes cancer when it clearly doesn’t .
And people will cite studies that examine oral biomes in a tiny group and make some tenuous links to some possible differences in biome makeup that possibly cause damage to dna that possibly then can lead to cancer and will shortcut all that and say definitively that evapes cause cancer. Because a scary story gets more readers than a story that says “ study proves nothing”
Just because something is safe to eat, does not mean it is safe to inhale.
You don’t inhale food into your lungs though; I doubt any approval is for that.
And I’d be surprised if some of the stuff sold wasn’t outside whatever the rules are anyway.
Fill your boots, by all means, if you’re happy with it. I just think what it’s become (a trendy habit rather than solely a temporary quit smoking support) creates yet another unnecessary health risk.
I can summarize this for you :
Evapes are much safer than cigarettes but we are still scared of them despite no evidence backing up that opinion . We are a small Canadian organisation with an official sounding name but even if we were an official body we are nowhere near as large and well vetted as the NHS and BMA and Cancer Research and the British Heart Foundation who all say evapes are safe .
Perhaps the reason there are no published scientific studies ,peer reviewed or otherwise, that show significant health risks associated with evapes … because there are none … shock horror !
People have been inhaling the main ingredients of evapes for 50 years . Thats people in hospitals and even children on ventilators . Its also used in ice cream.
The flavourings are the same ones cleared for yse in food , scents and cosmetics . You’ve probably consumes several hundred litres of the stuff yourself.
Again lack of evidence for something usually means its because that it doesn’t exist , despite some weird beliefs people have that you can justify evidence for anything as long as you bend and blend a bunch of sidereal irrelavancies together.
Easy tiger, all I meant was that we do not fully yet understand the risks. The same way Asbestos was the future and smoking was good for the nerves.
Yes vapes are better for you than smoking but to say it's not a health risk in my view is premature.
It does in the case of propylene glycol and vegetable glycol and the flavourings approved for use in evapes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
I sincerely hope the 99% that you report are correct. On balance, 1% risk would probably put me off, for what that’s worth.
https://www.healthline.com/health/do...e-cause-cancer
“Recent studies suggest that nicotine has several cancer-causing effects”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4553893/
“… nicotine may contribute in cancer development by stimulating a number of important processes“.
Last edited by David_D; 28th May 2023 at 20:16.
Easy tiger yourself . The ingredients in evapes have been tested and used for decades. We have extensive testing and vetting processes in place these days and these chemicals are about the safest and most widely used and understood chemicals used today .
How much more do you need exactly? A negative result in a test doesn’t mean you just yet haven’t found the positive yet and it will be discovered in 20 years .
Do you still worry about monsters under your bed when you go to sleep at night ?
Asbestos and tobacco smoking originate from a time when people and governments simply did not care about the health impacts of such things. It is not the same situation.
The NHS website clearly states
Vaping is not completely risk-free, but it poses a small fraction of the risk of smoking cigarettes. The long-term risks of vaping are not yet clear.
We just do not know the long term risks
If 1% risk is enough to put you off something you might as well live the rest of your life as a rubber plant .
Again I’ll summarize these links you posted ;
There is no direct causal evidence that nicotine does cause cancer , but who knows with more studies.
And there are a few people now on this thread who seem to be posting links to articles that contain the words “nicotine” “evape” “cancer” but are onviously nit bothering to give them even a cursory glance.
How about you post a link to something that says evapes are a definite health risk rather than studies yhat say , evapes don’t seem to have any risks but we’ll keep looking and say that just because we haven’t found anything doesn’t mean its safe desoire that flying in the face of scientific practice.
Drinking a glass of water is not completely risk free. That doesn’t mean in a few decades it will suddenly be discovered to give you cancer.
Same here. Except they specifically asked me if I had smoked any tobacco products in the last 5 years. The insurance they quoted me was ridiculously uncompetitive also
A 1% risk from doing something utterly pointless (puffing away on an E-cigarette for reasons other than aid to stopping smoking and ultimately stopping vaping) is definitely too high for me. As the stats man, can you give me some examples of everyday activities with a 1% serious bad outcome risk?
I explicitly quoted from two articles. This is what they said if you didn’t see:
“Recent studies suggest that nicotine has several cancer-causing effects”
“… nicotine may contribute in cancer development by stimulating a number of important processes“.
I don’t have your epidemiological knowledge and experience so can’t critique the research.
How about you post a link to something that says evapes are definitely not a health risk?
But you'll look cool.
I think I’d get banned if I gave my thoughts on how it looks!!
And, full disclosure, I say that as an idiot who smoked on and off for a few years when I was younger. What the ???? was I thinking?
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp2175 - study published back in 2018 - must be others since.
Disclosure: I was a 15+ a day smoker - thanks to my parents, passive smoking, thanks a bunch - I didn't smoke until after I left home at 18 until I was in my 40s. I remember smoking carriages on the underground and overground, smoking indoors at work and of course at the pub and in public places. I remember having to go down 10 floors for my nicotine hit. Haven't smoked since 2014 when I relapsed due to a life situation, stopped dead with hypnotism, acu-pressure, meditation and change of life-style.Our results add to the existing evidence that e-cigarettes are a relevant source of exposure to a wide variety of toxic metals including Cr, Ni, and Pb as well as to essential metals that are potentially toxic through inhalation such as Mn and Zn. Metal concentrations in the e-liquid from the original dispenser increased markedly in the same e-liquid after it was added to the device and was brought into contact with the heating coil, both in the generated aerosol and in the liquid that remained in the tank. These findings support the hypothesis that metals are transferred from the device (most likely the coil) to the e-liquid and from the e-liquid to the aerosol that is inhaled by the user. Due to potential toxicity resulting from chronic exposure to metals in e-cigarette aerosols, additional research is needed to more precisely quantify metal exposures resulting from e-cigarette use and their implications for human health, and to support regulatory standards to protect public health.
Goodness - this thread started in 2012 before I stopped smoking!!
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 28th May 2023 at 22:10.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
There are ways of quitting smoking other than by vaping and other nicotine substitutes.
I was once a 40 and sometimes up to 60 cigarettes a day addict.
I thought I'd never be able to stop smoking. I figured out a simple (for me) way of quitting but it was very personal.
Others might have experienced similar smoking-related family / friends' tragedies.
We can all learn from other people's experiences and thus maybe avoid their fatal consequences.
I watched my father's health slowly but surely deteriorate over many years as he developed smoking related emphysema with all its symptoms; incapacitating symptoms eventually necessitating use of oxygen cylinders upstairs and downstairs.
He continued smoking but the more he smoked the more coughing fits he experienced and the more reliant he became on oxygen. The coughing fits were part of his persona over many years; his coughing was so violent he had to grasp the arms of his chair to steady himself.
After a minute or so he'd manage to stop coughing – but he'd be gasping for breath necessitating grabbing his oxygen mask once again to breath in some soothing oxygen.
He'd then feel the need to light up another cigarette but would likely then have another coughing fit – and another - and another.
He then developed heart disease and on a number of occasions collapsed whilst undressing at bedtime.
After one such bedtime episode my mother called his GP who stayed with him for two hours because my father refused to go to hospital.
During another similar bedtime episode sparked off by him becoming far too excited whist watching TV snooker, he had a convulsive fit necessitating hospitalisation.
Whilst he was in hospital I checked his bedside notes and wrote down the hospital doctor's prescribed medication.
I later read it was for terminally ill cardiac patients. He'd had a heart attack.
A few days later he suffered yet another coughing fit whilst laying in his hospital bed and accidentally half swallowed and choked on his false teeth. He did not have the strength or wherewithal to summon assistance.
By the time help arrived he required resuscitation.
I was summoned from work but when I arrived the doctor advised he was unlikely to recover due to heart disease related kidney failure.
The doctor request family permission to "do not resuscitate" if he had another respiratory episode. My mother and I both agreed; he was in a dire state and it was likely only a matter of time before he passed away.
Before he died he half opened his eyes and said, "Look after your mother" - as my mother tearfully said, "I always tried to to look after you Harry!!" And she had tried – but his smoking always won and caused her so much grief.
As I took my mother home I resolved I did not want to die in similar agonising circumstances and cause so much grief to my family.
I then decided I must quit smoking but had no idea how to succeed. For almost two years I tried to find a way to quit smoking.
In October 1990 I decided it was 'now or never' and decided to quit on New Year's Day 1991.
During those 10 (ish) weeks I made notes every day as to WHY I was going to quit . The notes included all my father's smoking related problems and the way he died. They also included notes about relatives' smoking problems; both my father's brothers died from smoking related diseases including emphysema.
I also wrote down all the benefits I'd experience if I managed to quit smoking. There was never a day went by when I did not find and document another reason to quit – some of those reasons were very personal. Each time I added to the dossier I'd have more to read later in the day – and again in the evening.
I read the notes time and time again and each time said to myself: "I'm going to quit on New Year's Day – and when i've quit. I'm NOT going experience any withdrawal symptoms!" I was gradually brainwashing myself into quitting smoking on the chosen day. Some might call it 'auto-suggestion'.
As New Year's Day approached I began to worry if I would succeed and decided to buy some nicotine patches to help me – but not to be used until Jan 1 and only to be used if really necessary.
I continued reading my notes several times daily whilst concentrating on my New Year's Day quit target. I gradually began to realise that after smoking so heavily for so many, many, years, I now had a very positive mindset about the prospect of quitting.
On Christmas Day I was actually looking forward to having my last cigarette on New Year's Eve – but I also wanted to enjoy New Year's Eve and New Year's Day and wondered if it was really the best time to quit??
I had a rethink and decided to 'go for broke' and quit on December 26 Boxing Day. I read my notes on Christmas Day, again and again – and just before midnight smoked my last cigarette.
On Boxing Day I wondered how I would get through the day without a cigarette. I used a nicotine patch – just in case I experienced cravings.
I experienced no cravings at all even though I'd brought forward my quit day. I did not feel the need to use more patches. My addiction had 'disappeared'. My 'notes coupled brainwashing' had worked! I've never felt the need for a cigarette since. Quitting smoking on December 26 1990 is my greatest achievement.
If I can do it so can anyone else. If you want to quit please consider the foregoing and whether it could work for you. If it does you'll no longer be a slave to nicotine and will likely experience many benefits.
My 'auto-suggestion' ... 'now or never' decision was the best thing that ever happened to me – the bestest thing, 'ever, ever,'
BW, dunk
EDIT: One +ve aspect of quitting smoking was that I noticed people no longer said, "You stink of cigarettes!!" I used to try and ignore their remarks but they were right; it's a fact that most smokers, especially heavy smokers, have a stale tobacco odour in their breath, from their clothes, from their bodies, and worst of all, from their suite upholstery and cushions. I noticed that GFs who smoked also had a tobacco odour – and the fastest way to upset them was to tell them.
Last edited by sundial; 29th May 2023 at 19:17. Reason: additional info.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Yes like this study which points out the flaws in the 2018 study and reaffirms that metal levels from evapes are actually below recommended levels.
But of course no one bothers to make hysterical news stories out of it . One for the Australian fans by the way
https://www.athra.org.au/blog/2018/1...a-health-risk/
And also consider your own research and what you then post rather than just posting the first article you google that seems to support your opinion.
Last edited by Mr.D; 29th May 2023 at 13:23.
Here’s an earlier paper from the same scientists , published with references , not a mere study. 2015 so not like they only woke up and reacted in 2018 just to react to the flawed study.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25988311/
Again metals in evape vapour not a concern when measured with relevance.
Again no press bothers to report studies that contradict and point out flaws in studies reported in scaremongering stories.
Do you run a vaping business perchance?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Cheap shot.
It’s interesting to read my original post from nearly twelve years ago.
I’m still happily vaping, but haven’t touched burning tobacco since I started this thread.
Not once.
I’ll take that as a win.
So clever my foot fell off.
But you're still addicted ... You're an addict ... addicted to nicotine ... Win for the vape manufacturer
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Posting Permissions
