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Thread: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

  1. #1
    Master AIDM's Avatar
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    When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Some of you may recall, in my intro post I promised the story of my SM300, here is a teaser pic, story follows below, hope you find it interesting :) .


    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr

    I can't remember exactly how the 'need' to own a vintage Omega Seamaster 300 started, but I was in my vintage Omega phase and had just sold on a couple and had cash burning a hole in my pocket...

    I started researching on the net and soon realised two things, good ones aren't common and these watches were heavily faked. Buying from a dealer seemed the best option, but prices were significantly higher (aren't they always?)...

    I had watched a couple come and go on the bay and was getting a little more confident in how to spot the fakes, some were easy, miss spelling on the case backs, some harder; and Omega don't make things easy with genuine examples carrying a variety of fonts on the bezel etc.

    I was easy on model: date or no date, big triangle or '12' at, er, 12, whatever but it had to be a good one.

    Then one of my saved searches on eBay threw up an intriguing ad, from a seller in the US. He had low feedback (less that 20 I think it was), the story was not unfamiliar, he was the original owner, used the watch for a few years then stuck it in a drawer and forgotten about it. He stated that the box and papers were long gone, the crystal was scratched and although he had never had it serviced, never even had the case back off in his 40 years of ownership, he had wound it prior to placing the ad and it was still keeping great time. A few alarm bells ringing, low feedback, stock type story, could this be a scammer?

    I reviewed the pics closely, it looked good, in fact like it had spent its life in a temperature and humidity controlled atmosphere (!!) and I pinged off a couple of questions and request for more info....

    What came back started the pulse racing a little faster: Turns out he had been a radio operator on the US Ballistic Missile Nuclear Sub USS Abraham Lincoln SSBN602!

    He was based at Holy Loch in Scotland on the Gold crew.


    SSBN602HOLYLOCKSCOTLAND1999 by Rabc3, on Flickr

    Each sub had two crews, Blue and Gold and rotated every three months. The watch was bought by him from the station PX for 65USD, he had considered the Rolex Sub, but at 115USD it was a bit rich for a 21 year old USN radio operator!! He had worn the watch for the rest of his Naval career and it had spent months underwater whilst touring the world keeping the world safe from the Commie threat! :mrgreen: This watch was more Submariner than most Rolex Submariners!!

    More here on the Abe Lincoln and its illustrious carreer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Abraha ... SBN-602%29

    By this time I was convinced enough to take a punt (understatement :lol: ), the bidding was slow, the pics not great I suspect putting people off. I placed a max bid slightly lower than I had seen good examples go for previously and set about seeing what else I could find out..... Turns out there's a lot of information on that there interweb! I could verify that the Abe Lincoln was based at Holy Loch, there was a Gold and Blue crew and even found a crew list with the name of the seller listed!!

    To cut a long stort(er), I won the auction at a very reasonable price, the seller was fantastic to communicate with and we chatted about his history over a few emails as the funds went through and the watch was packaged up. He wanted to send it USPS and I had no problem with that, it took a couple of weeks and the anticipation was palpable...

    The watch got hung up at the Clevedon sorting office (still no idea why Clevedon!) but I managed to slip away from work at the airport and shoot over to pay the duty and pick the package up...

    Inside was the cleanest, nicest example of a totally original, untouched Seamaster 300 165.024 on the original bracelet that I've ever seen, to this day....

    (Apologies for the pics, all dodgy iPhone I'm afraid :cry: )


    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr

    The watch had its original plexi crystal, complete with tiny Omega logo at the centre, the crystal came up almost as new with the lighest of Polywatch polishes, even the lume at 12 and 6 had the pin prick marks that are common on these dials from the manufacturing process....


    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr

    But there were also some unexpected bonus items...not only had the seller sent me a letter he had written explaining how he bought the watch and the circumstances of its Submariner life, but he also sent an original photo, removed from his album, showing him wearing the watch soon after purchase in the galley of the Sub! 8)


    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr


    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr

    More pics here of life on the Abe Lincoln and contemporary shots of the crew and galley: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08602.htm

    I absolutely loved this watch, the stretchy 1039 (3/67) bracelet went safely away and it was proudly worn on the Omega Mesh and the black/sand NATO that really brought out the colour of the Lume...


    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr


    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr

    Untitled by Rabc3, on Flickr

    :drunken:

    The watch was with me and worn very often for a good six months, then less frequently as my tastes moved in other directions until that fateful day when the collection was undergoing a major review to help raise funds for the must have IWC Ingenieur 3227-01.....

    I had spotted an Ingenieur on the Watch Guru (Tom Bolt) site and had a very pleasant time haggling with Marc, finally reaching a PX deal that valued the SM300 at £1700, considerably more than I had paid for it and leaving the additional cash required at an acceptable level.

    The watch was duly packaged up with the letter and photo and shipped off to London for an authenticity check, for which the result was never in doubt. I recieved the Ingenieur and it has been one of my favourite work wear watches ever since...

    The SM300 was listed on the Watch Guru website at wel over £1k more than they had allowed me for it (fair enough :blackeye: ) and sold within a few weeks. I was speaking to Marc from Watch Guru on another matter later and he confided in me that it had gone to a specialist Omega collector in Finland (IIRC), I sure hope he is enjoying it as much as I did - and it's not just locked away in some Finish safe gathering dust. :cry:

    Sorry to have gone on so long, I'll finish now with a question....was I a fool to part with a pretty unique watch, (I know the answer :pale: ), would I have it back at the cost of my (much loved) Ingenieur? In a hart beat. :albino:

    (Click here for a nice 360 photo on the WG site http://www.watchguru.com/WatchFiend/Wat ... -300/12659 , I can't bear to. Thanks to Tony for assisting with the address blanking. :) )

  2. #2
    Master AIDM's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Sorry , dont know what happened there, failed edit reposted whole thing...

  3. #3
    Master
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Just proves you can buy a genuine item from ebay :shock:

    Good read.

  4. #4
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great story - thanks for sharing :D
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  5. #5

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great story thanks for sharing and yeh you should have kept it !

  6. #6
    Master Ticker's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    What a great story. A watch with such heritage is a rarity. I sympothise for you, you must be absolutely gutted.

  7. #7
    Journeyman
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Really nice post. I can't believe you let a beauty like that go for anything less than an emergency kidney transplant.

  8. #8
    Master
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Nice story - thanks for taking the effort to compose and share this. Welcome aboard!

  9. #9
    Craftsman
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great story and great watch :)

  10. #10

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Terrific read, Thanks :) I never knock ebay as I've had some jaw droppers off there over many years :D Your tale really does hammer home the mantra 'Buy the seller'.

    Think you dropped a b*llock letting that baby go, especially with that provenance. Sorry :(

  11. #11
    Craftsman
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great post, thanks. Shame you let it go but I hope it was worth it.

    JIm

  12. #12

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Fantastic read, it was made all the more interesting as I actually have a local
    Connection....... I was born and lived there for 16 years.

    As my name suggests

  13. #13

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Good story.
    I suspect many of us have let something go only to regret it, I know I have :(

  14. #14

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by AIDM

    I'll finish now with a question....was I a fool to part with a pretty unique watch, (I know the answer :pale: ), would I have it back at the cost of my (much loved) Ingenieur? In a hart beat. :albino:
    Yes. Absolutely. Very foolish. :thumbright:

  15. #15
    Craftsman bigmul's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Excellent story, can't think why he would want to sell it, let alone you! :-)

  16. #16
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    I think you made a mistake selling that SM300 :? especially with that history. But don't kick yourself too hard mate - that was a very interesting read. If you still had the watch I'd have say post that story on the 'Review' section - actually - I on second thoughts I still would :lol:
    “ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG

  17. #17

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    A great read, thanks for posting. Shame that you decided to let it go, must be difficult to see with new owners (especially as the value seems to be heading steadily north!)

    The solution is clearly not to flip hard to replace vintage watches for new ones!

  18. #18

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by AIDM
    I was speaking to Marc from Watch Guru on another matter later and he confided in me that it had gone to a specialist Omega collector in Finland (IIRC), I sure hope he is enjoying it as much as I did - and it's not just locked away in some Finish safe gathering dust. :cry:
    Hi

    Great story... I bet it's been sold to my watch guy.! He is a watchmaker and nuts on Omega. I will pop in and see him to check :-)

    Thanks
    deano

  19. #19
    Craftsman johnnyb's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    What a unique story, it's great when a watch has some history behind it.

    Not sure I'd have sold it though...

  20. #20
    Master AIDM's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by bongo
    Terrific read, Thanks :) I never knock ebay as I've had some jaw droppers off there over many years :D Your tale really does hammer home the mantra 'Buy the seller'.

    Think you dropped a b*llock letting that baby go, especially with that provenance. Sorry :(
    I think that sums up the situation pretty comprehensively, from where I'm sitting :lol: :lol: !

    Thanks for the comments guys :) .

    Quote Originally Posted by deano42

    Hi

    Great story... I bet it's been sold to my watch guy.! He is a watchmaker and nuts on Omega. I will pop in and see him to check :-)

    Thanks
    deano
    Deano, if it is can you see if you can slip it into your pocket on the way out? There'll be a drink in it for you :lol: :lol: !
    Seriously it would be nice to know it went to a good home, I'm still kicking myself!

    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK)
    I think you made a mistake selling that SM300 :? especially with that history. But don't kick yourself too hard mate - that was a very interesting read. If you still had the watch I'd have say post that story on the 'Review' section - actually - I on second thoughts I still would :lol:
    I might well do that, if it wouldn't be viewed as a cheeky double post.... It could provide a good reference to check any suspect SM300 against for someone?

    I think I may need to find a good PRS14 to help dull the pain :wink: .

    Cheers all,

    Rob

  21. #21

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....


  22. #22
    Master AIDM's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by bongo
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Precista-PRS-14-automatic-watch-/180801651674?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWa tches_GL&hash=item2a189e43da#ht_500wt_1202

    :)
    Cheers Bongo 8) ,

    Now in my watch list....

    Rob

  23. #23

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great post. Very interesting read. Gorgeous watch.
    Thanks for posting.

  24. #24
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkit
    Great story thanks for sharing and yeh you should have kept it !
    I'll second that - what a stunning watch and with a terrific history behind it. A shame you parted with it :(

  25. #25
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great story, thanks for the interesting read. Knowing the full background of an old watch like that makes it even more interesting.

    My father was a submariner for 36 years yet never took the opportunity to own a decent watch. In fact, the only things he ever bought through the navy were senior service cigarettes!

    Me and him have very different interests. It might be time to start researching pictures of the local milkmen from 40 years ago :lol:

  26. #26

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    That's a great story and a beautiful watch, and if the PRS14 wasn't so good I'd be wearing one myself.

  27. #27

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Thanks for the story Rob. A really good Sunday morning read.....the watch isn't too bad either!
    I'd like to think the postscript to the tale will be you and the watch will someday be reunited.

  28. #28
    Master flame's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Hi

    Great watch , great story....shame it's gone now though :(

    I was talking to a retired guy based in the South of France the other day about his SM300 which had a nice bit of wabi....turned out he used to dive for COMEX and wore it all the time !

    All the best - Neil

  29. #29
    Master IAmATeaf's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    With that history, the fact that you knew you paid under the odds for it why did you let it go, I personally wouldn't have :)

  30. #30
    Journeyman
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great story and watch!

    I heard about this story today talking to TZ-UK member Menno AKA Thieuster.

    Had to read it for myself ofcourse! This kind of history is a big plus for a watch!

  31. #31

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great story, really enjoyed it :)

  32. #32
    Master Dan83bz's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    To find something like this , at a bargain price as you indicated is definitely rare. I hope it works well for a long time from now.

  33. #33
    Master Nono's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Now that is a great story!!!!

  34. #34

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    A really good read! I've haven't yet plucked up the courage to buy off ebay, but this goes to show it can be worth it. Knowing the provenance lifts the watch into a whole different place...

    Simon

  35. #35
    Master geordie's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    If I'm honest I'd have kept that one - provenance like that would be a huge part of the ownership experience for me!

  36. #36
    Apprentice
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    I love these story's...... Thanks for posting.

  37. #37

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    You were mugged mate. That is an awesome Omega :roll:

  38. #38
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    That's a great story, thanks do much for sharing it.

    I can't quite believe that he sold a career companion like that! I can believe less that you sold it you nit!!

    Anyway. Cheers.

  39. #39
    Grand Master TaketheCannoli's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    My all time, all time, ever, ever, ever, in the world watch. I'm sure you already know the answer to your question. But hey, we all have watch regrets.

    Great story, thanks.

    David

  40. #40
    Master AIDM's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sibeer
    You were mugged mate. That is an awesome Omega :roll:
    I'm not sure 'mugged' really describes the scenario, I went in with my eyes open and offered the watch in PX for the Ingenieur. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by jrpippen
    That's a great story, thanks do much for sharing it.

    I can't quite believe that he sold a career companion like that! I can believe less that you sold it you nit!!

    Anyway. Cheers.
    Thanks mate... I was surprised that he was selling too, but he explained that he hadn't worn it for years, it just sat in a drawer. I can't remember the details, but I think he may have offered it to his kids who weren't interested. Now that deserves an eye roll smiley :roll:

    With hindsight I could have tried to raise the funds for the Ingenieur in another way, or waited. But in reality something had to go to raise cash, I rarely wore it at that time and it was too good to keep unworn. It taught me a lesson, about how my taste fluctuates, but some things can be replaced easily (even if prices rise), while others are unique and irreplaceable.

    Cheers,

    Rob

  41. #41
    Master
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Wow, great story and fantastic watch... I would never sell that... and if I would it would be for an exceptional price, not average.
    Lesson learned the hard way :?

    I hope you at least really enjoy the Ingy

  42. #42
    Master adesmith's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Shame you sold it, I would love something like that, even more so with the history you had on it.

  43. #43
    Craftsman
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Wow, what a story. Thanks for sharing this and congrats for owning a great timepiece!

  44. #44

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    That's a fantastic story and a lovely watch. I would love to own something like that!

  45. #45
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Wow!
    What a story!
    Really nice watch!
    :)

  46. #46

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Cool story..

    Thanks for writing it up. Enjoyed reading it.

  47. #47
    Master Henrik Gelardi's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Very nice story - thanks for taking the time to write this and share it... :)

  48. #48
    Master
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great read

  49. #49
    Craftsman
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    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    Great read and lovely looking watch. Not sure I could have let it go myself but sometimes these things just happen.

    Again, great story.

    Hj.

  50. #50

    Re: When is a Seamaster a genuine Submariner.....

    I cant imagine your feelings for having let this one go but i hope you feel something special for the watch you traded it for.
    If nothing else people will be able to learn to appreciate special watches for what they are.
    I have several "untradeable" vintage pieces with stories & i have a knot in my belly just entertaining the thought of selling them.
    Good luck wrestling with your demons.
    Cheers - Darren

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