Disappointing Bienne result - Flightmaster content

[Optimum]

Some may recall the eBay Flightmaster I picked up in the early summer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110694894470?redirect=mobile

It was a bit of a punt but my assessment at the time was that the crystal was shot, I'd seen more battered cases and the dial and handset were beautiful. The wabi on the case was too much for me so a refurb was required. Having had a perfect result on a Speedy Mark 2 earlier in the year I felt that Bienne, although expensive, was the only way to go.

That was six months ago and in late Autumn I posted up about them having broken the hands. I was gutted but fair enough they threw in a free new dial and sent me the old parts back.

The Flightmaster returned to me a few days before Xmas and I have to say I am really disappointed. There is still evidence of a couple of dinks - 2 or 3 tiny pinpricks and one larger dink. Fair enough, it is clear from the original photos that the larger one was quite deep and they can only do so much. However, the bits that are troubling me are the rough edge to the case where it meets the glass. The photos below are poor (can't work the wife's decent camera) but give you an idea.





Now to my eyes the eBay photos this area wasn't particularly bad beforehand and my recollection is the same.

Also the bracelet looks to have been untouched in the refurb and still bears the artfully compass-scrawled name of the previous owner on the clasp.



Now I started a thread just before Xmas asking whether anyone else had ever been disappointed by Bienne's work and the answer appeared to be a resounding no. Am I wrong to feel a bit let down by the whole experience?

PS I have a tale of woe from STS to come regarding my "Jedi" but I'll save that for after I've spoken to them...
Edit: STS are dealing with my "Jedi" issue swiftly and fairly so no need to go into that. :thumbright:

[phil h]

Disappointing. How deep are the rough edges around the crystal? If they are too deep perhaps the case wouldn't have been able to hold the crystal? I have no experience of Bienne, but my experience with STS was positive. The watch still had some dings when I collected it but due to location (lug cover on Mk 11 Speedy) the shape of the case would have been messed up if the ends were receded any futher.
My preference would be to use STS as I can drop and pick up a watch from there, which to me is preferable to risking posting to Bienne.
Hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction.

[benny.c]

How deep are the rough edges around the crystal? If they are too deep perhaps the case wouldn't have been able to hold the crystal?

That's my understanding with the Flightmaster. If you take too much off in that area the crystal will no longer fit. OP, are you suggesting that they actually made the rough edges worse?

With regards to the bracelet, was a refurb included on their quote? I got a new bracelet when I sent mine to Bienne and can't remember if a bracelet refurb was included in the service price. It costs enough so you'd expect it to be!

[Foxy100]

I wonder if Abel in Belgium would be able to sort out the edges for you without taking off any of the metal?

[Optimum]

[quote=benny.c]

How deep are the rough edges around the crystal? If they are too deep perhaps the case wouldn't have been able to hold the crystal?

That's my understanding with the Flightmaster. If you take too much off in that area the crystal will no longer fit. OP, are you suggesting that they actually made the rough edges worse?

With regards to the bracelet, was a refurb included on their quote? I got a new bracelet when I sent mine to Bienne and can't remember if a bracelet refurb was included in the service price. It costs enough so you'd expect it to be![/quote:32krr6rs]

I'm not sure that they made the edge worse, it was not the thing that stood out on the watch pre-Bienne but obviously does now.

Re the bracelet, it didn't appear separately on the quote but neither did the bracelet on my Speedy and that came out perfect. I asked for a complete refurb so surely they didn't expect me to be happy with "Baz" scrawled on the clasp???

[PeterA]

Sorry to hear your not happy with the result.
It's hard to see in the pictures exactly how the edges looks but I think Bienne should redo their job.
Another thing that confuses me little is the pattern on the case. Mine has a sunburst pattern but yours seems to be circular is that correct?
I know some flightys have this pattern but I have never seen an Bienne restoration with it.
About the bracelet that's wierd they didn't refurb it. I got a new bracelet on mine but they asked me if I wanted a restoration on my original bracelet or a new one. Here is a link to my Bienne restoration thread before and after so you can get an idea how my restoration went.
http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=2005510

[michalko82]

I'm sorry to hear that. I would be well pi**ed off to be honest. There could be an excuse for the crystal edge, but that bracelet is a mess and clearly hasn't been touched (unless they thought it's your name and you want to keep it that way)

[Optimum]

Another thing that confuses me little is the pattern on the case. Mine has a sunburst pattern but yours seems to be circular is that correct?
I know some flightys have this pattern but I have never seen an Bienne restoration with it.

I just had to Google that as with everything else I honestly hadn't noticed. I found this which has reassured me:-

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88479

[Thewatchbloke]

I would be very disappointed with that result, especially with no explanation given about the marks left on the edge and the untouched bracelet. Poor show.

[Woody74]

I would send that back with a letter explaining your concerns and asking them to complete the job to your satisfaction - I would be amazed if they were not very apologetic - give it a go and see what they say.

Good luck.

[Optimum]

Thanks for the input guys. I've emailed the lady who dealt with my complaint over the hands as she seemed helpful and I'll let you know what they say.

[clockwatcher]

I would also be disappointed, usually when they return from Bienn, they are looking like they are brand new - not sure what happend here :?

[Relativity]

I too would be disappointed. :(

Whenever I have seen other members post their Bienne refurbs I have always been amazed by the results. Please let us know how you get on with Omega.

[CARRERA74]

I can see why the edge of the bezel mat not have come up like new - surely only a certain amount of material could be removed.

There is however no excuse why tet didn't touch the bracelet and clasp.

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted.

Si

[andrew e]

Sub contracted? Well you have to ask....

[funkstar]

It's GOT to go back to them. Just not acceptable to return it like this.

Call Omega UK HQ direct and show them this thread.

[JonW]

They will sort it to your satisfaction. They are only human and some things can get missed, but they will fix issues, tho it may take a while as they are always busy etc.

[gray]

I thought I had responded earlier to this but obviously not.

I hope they sort it for you, quite shocking that it came back from QC after a refurb with some glaring incomplete work yet to be done.

Shame on them.

[rapid]

Not a good result, sorry to hear its not been done to the normal standard.

My experience has been very good and I would put money on them bending over backwards to resolve the issues.

In my opinion, it wasn't really a candidate for Bienne, it looked to be in great condition originally! but i guess it comes down to wabi preference!

Hope you get it sorted,
R

[Explorer1]

I hope they see you right on this - that's a lovely watch and quite a disappointing refurb (particularly at the money).

Cheers,

Andy

[Plake]

It's GOT to go back to them. Just not acceptable to return it like this.

Call Omega UK HQ direct and show them this thread.

Swatch UK are a total joke and in any case certainly won't get involved with a complaint to their mothership about a vintage piece (which they can't service themselves.) Bienne should take any complaint seriously and I'd expect them to offer some sort of solution.

Even if (as it might be) that polishing the case around the crystal would adversely affect the retention they should have explained that it was leave alone or a new case. And I'd be disappointed at the lack of refurb of the bracelet too.

[Jack Norman]

Sorry to hear about your problem and I too have been through the chips around the crystal of a Flightmaster still showing after a Bienne restoration.

As already mentioned in this thread their response was that they could only take so much metal off before the crystal fit becomes a problem. They did offer to have another look at it if I returned it. In the end I left it alone as in my many years experience of seeking perfection I know it does not exist!!!! Often sorting out one problem creates at least two others and fixing those creates even more - it just seems to multiply.

The clasp is another thing and my inclination would be to remove the clasp and return it on its own for Bienne to sort out - this lessens the risk of damage or loss to the watch.

Also in my experience with Bienne when a problem occurs it seems to throw their communication ability and can drag on a bit.

Hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction.

[Optimum]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I got a response from Omega UK which included the comment

I am pleased to confirm that your time piece was fully serviced within our factory in Switzerland and may I assure you that this was completed to the usual high quality standard you have every right to expect from the OMEGA brand

which I think indicates the way this is likely to go.

It's an interesting contrast with Simon Freese of STS who, upon hearing of my dissatisfaction with my "Jedi" refurb, immediately rang me with an apology and was only too eager to resolve the issue.

Anyway, the watch is returning to Omega for them to have a look at and I suspect the case issue will not see a resolution. However, there can be no excuse for the bracelet and I will not be accepting one.

[Optimum]

E-mail from Omega today was pretty much as expected:-

I have discussed your OMEGA watch with our Technical Manager and I can now advise that the case has been returned to its best possible condition. In addition to this I must confirm the case edge, where it meets the glass, has been restored to its original state and further refinishing is not possible. As you may appreciate, deeper impact marks cannot be removed completely, therefore, the remaining indentation cannot be improved.

I will, however, ensure that your bracelet and clasp are refurbished and I will endeavour to return your OMEGA watch with the minimum delay.

I'll let them get on with it but the complete lack of apology in respect of the bracelet is disappointing.

[benny.c]

I'll let them get on with it but the complete lack of apology in respect of the bracelet is disappointing.

Very odd that they completely missed it the first time around :?: It was hardly a few desk diving scuffs.

[Explorer1]

The standard of customer service everywhere is on the decline, sad to hear that such a prestigious name in the watch world is no exception.

Cheers,

Andy

[Tahiti]

It's an interesting contrast with Simon Freese of STS who, upon hearing of my dissatisfaction with my "Jedi" refurb, immediately rang me with an apology and was only too eager to resolve the issue.

I'd have to agree with the reference to Simon here. I had a Seamaster with STS for repair very recently, it came back a little lacking in both finish and timing, and without a service case (granted some would call me a perfectionist but why shouldn't I be if I'm paying hundreds to get things right?). A note to STS, the watch returned at my cost, and Simon sorted to my satisfaction within next to no time.

As for the original post, I'd be disappointed with the result too. No excuses on the bracelet for sure!

[WatchScout]

Too bad about the refurb issue - hope it gets soloved to your satisfaction.

On a sidenote; is it not very common for the hands to be broken during the refub efforts?

I seem to have read something to that effect...

[pashmolean]

Not much to add to this other than the appalling experiences I had with Omega Service, shoddy workmanship, lies and total rudeness put me off the brand. It's only when I experienced the excellent service Breitling provide that I realised how far Omega have to go even get close to Breitlings standards not only in workmanship but customer service and politeness.

You really get the feeling that Breitling are genuinely grateful you decided on one of their products whereas Omega could not care less about you once you've bought your watch.

[AM94]

In defense of Bienne, I have sent circa 5 vintage pieces to them and each has been returned in excellent condition (and I am very picky). The only issue I have had with Omega restoration was with STS and whilst they resolved it, it was very underhanded (part of the issue was that they kept the original dial, hands and bezel that Bienne had replaced - STS were simply the middle man (handled the shipping) but chose to keep the parts (which obviously have a value). This all occurred before I knew you could send direct to Bienne.

OP, best of luck with your repair. Bienne do excellent work, so I have little doubt they can sort the issue. The Flighmaster cases are a bugger to repair due to the crystal positioning but the rest of the work should be well within their ability.

[Plake]

Not much to add to this other than the appalling experiences I had with Omega Service, shoddy workmanship, lies and total rudeness put me off the brand. It's only when I experienced the excellent service Breitling provide that I realised how far Omega have to go even get close to Breitlings standards not only in workmanship but customer service and politeness.

You really get the feeling that Breitling are genuinely grateful you decided on one of their products whereas Omega could not care less about you once you've bought your watch.

Totally agree with this - a massive shame that I find 99% of Breitlings minging as my experience with their service dept was excellent when my aerospace had a problem.

[benny.c]

Personally I had a fantastic experience with Bienne and couldn't have been happier with my restored Flightmaster. On balance I've heard much more praise than complaints with regards their work and customer service. That's concerning the restoration of vintage pieces but I can't comment on the modern stuff.

[Optimum]

Personally I had a fantastic experience with Bienne and couldn't have been happier with my restored Flightmaster. On balance I've heard much more praise than complaints with regards their work and customer service. That's concerning the restoration of vintage pieces but I can't comment on the modern stuff.

Well it's 50/50 on personal experience for me - excellent work on my Speedmaster Mk2 and dubious on my Flightmaster. Not a good enough success rate for me to want to spend such a lot of money with them again.

[benny.c]

Personally I had a fantastic experience with Bienne and couldn't have been happier with my restored Flightmaster. On balance I've heard much more praise than complaints with regards their work and customer service. That's concerning the restoration of vintage pieces but I can't comment on the modern stuff.

Well it's 50/50 on personal experience for me - excellent work on my Speedmaster Mk2 and dubious on my Flightmaster. Not a good enough success rate for me to want to spend such a lot of money with them again.

No, I'm not sure I would in your position either. Probably all the more disappointing as there is a certain level of excitement and expectation when something is returning from Bienne. Made even worse if you've had another that was done properly.

I hope it doesn't spoil your enjoyment of a fabulous watch. I really regret letting mine go :(

[peter2704]

Sorry to here of your problems with the refurb,my bienne flighty was excellent,but i suppose they only have so much metal to play with.Does the quality of work depend on the guy/gal who is allocated the watch,i mean what with the hands breaking, dings near the crystal looking worse and the bracelet being missed altogether ,did they let a newbie or a just out of time apprentice have a go on it :shock: .hope it gets sorted

[Optimum]

OK folks, just wrapping this one up. The watch has been returned and the bracelet has now been properly refinished at no additional cost. Clearly, there was no reason why this wasn't done initially and there has been no explanation as to why or apology. Judging by the speed that it has returned to me the bracelet has probably been refinished in the UK but I have no problem with that.

Am I still disappointed? Very. I've not got the beautiful dial/handset combo it went off with and the new hands have a more fluorescent yellow colour than the more mellow original. I could have accepted this if the watch had come back looking like new but that hasn't been the case either. So neither sympathetic restoration nor a return to "as new" has been achieved despite 6-7 months wait and some considerable expense. I did at least get the new hands and face FOC.

And the bright side? Well, my Speedy MK2 rarely gets a run out because I'm scared of putting the first mark on it's beautifully refurbed case. What I have with this Flightmaster is a watch that I am happy to wear and I'm doing so as I type. It's like a monstrous 70s steel carbuncle on my slim wrist but I really quite like it. 8)

Thanks to all for the comments and support. :thumbright:

[benny.c]

It's like a monstrous 70s steel carbuncle on my slim wrist but I really quite like it.

Well whatever the condition, those carbuncles look fantastic so I'm glad it's getting wrist time and not sitting in the safe (which mine did!). Enjoy it :)

[siddhartha]

Mine went to Bienne for 11 months, came back looking great (although the bracelet did not seem attended to much, if at all!) but about 2 months later, I noticed that the GMT hand failed to operate via its dedicated crown. I contacted some local people, and also Jack/IWW who said that he doesn't work on the Flighty anymore due to the complicated movement!

So, back to Bienne. 3 months later, came back again looking perfect, and this time, operating perfectly as well. It's now been about 2 years, and the watch continues to operate/look as new.

So, I think they can get it right, but the Flightmaster is a complicated beast, and can be troublesome to sort out 100%. I've had Seamaster 300s go there for total restoration, and those take a while too, but seemingly are much less hassle to do for Bienne.