Helium release valves...

[Huertecilla]

Unless one uses a helium filled pressure chamber as a safe for the watches to dwell in, the helium release valve is a marketing gimmick only.
Imo ofcourse.

[ralphy]

Or one is a saturation diver, for whom the valve was expressly designed.

R

[Huertecilla]

Or one is a saturation diver, for whom the valve was expressly designed.

Even then you could do without and opt for a watch without the need for the gimmick.

[ralphy]

Or one is a saturation diver, for whom the valve was expressly designed.

Even then you could do without and opt for a watch without the need for the gimmick.

Why is it a gimmick in your opinion? As I said, the valve was designed for sat diving.

R

[Huertecilla]

Because it was and certainly ís unneccessary to design a gas passing watch :idea:



Bubbly New YEAR






:bigsmurf:

[Huertecilla]

Do they have a valid function?

Of course they do, they keep the crystal from popping out if the internal pressure gets too high.

Can it be done without a pressure relief valve? Yes.

Which boils down to; unneccessary.

As it is expensive and complicated, needing maintenance too it is a toy for the marketing department.

[robcat]

Or one is a saturation diver, for whom the valve was expressly designed.

Even then you could do without and opt for a watch without the need for the gimmick.

That's a bit like saying a unidirectional bezel is a gimmick unless you are likely to catch and rotate it whilst timing something (which is pretty rare) - or most additional functions of a watch apart from time and date for that matter. These "gimmicks" add to a watch's complexity and perceived value.

[seadog1408]

Or one is a saturation diver, for whom the valve was expressly designed.

Even then you could do without and opt for a watch without the need for the gimmick.

Why is it a gimmick in your opinion? As I said, the valve was designed for sat diving.

R

:D :D ha ha!!!!, he is even here on this thread now, god love a trier :D

[cad monkey]

[quote=seadog1408]

I was under the impression that HE valves were a complete gimmick, only of any possible use to professional divers using a decompression chamber, and even then the same effect can be acheived by simply unscrewing the crown, thus venting off any high pressure helium that may be present

I am of course open to the possibility that I may be talking bollocks

You're bang on the money!

yep , dont let a bit of moisture in your watch put you off. :D

But surely you only unscrew the crown in the moistureless confines of the decompression chamber?

there talks a man who has obviously never been in one :wink: , they are humid mate even the good ones run at 60% humidity ish.[/quote:3kg7zjwh]

Heh, at last count I had 4 divers, closest they've been to the sea is maybe a quick paddle with the dog. :lol:

[ralphy]

Because it was and certainly ís unneccessary to design a gas passing watch

Only in your world though. Closed minds and all that. :wink:

In the world of reality however, there is a need for passing the gas out.

R

[walkerwek1958]

I always find it hard to believe that Helium can find its way into a sealed watchcase, even under pressure; as a (former) chemist maybe I should know better. I`ve used it at work many times in cylinders at around 2000psi...and it doesn`t find its way out.

I`m guessing it can permeate the rubber seals because it is a rather small atom. Surely it can`t permeate through metal?....or can it ?

Anyhow, I`m happy to accept that it can get into the watch case under extreme conditions and it can cause problems....hence the need for the He valve.

As for the aesthetic appeal or otherwise, with the Omega SMP I think it clutters the design so I`d give it the thumbs-down. However, I`ve got so used to it being there I tend to just 'accept' it without noticing any longer.

The only time my watches get wet is during cleaning :) .....after triple-checking that the crown's screwed down correctly!

Paul

[lysanderxiii]

I always find it hard to believe that Helium can find its way into a sealed watchcase, even under pressure; as a (former) chemist maybe I should know better. I`ve used it at work many times in cylinders at around 2000psi...and it doesn`t find its way out.

I`m guessing it can permeate the rubber seals because it is a rather small atom. Surely it can`t permeate through metal?....or can it ?

Anyhow, I`m happy to accept that it can get into the watch case under extreme conditions and it can cause problems....hence the need for the He valve.

As for the aesthetic appeal or otherwise, with the Omega SMP I think it clutters the design so I`d give it the thumbs-down. However, I`ve got so used to it being there I tend to just 'accept' it without noticing any longer.

The only time my watches get wet is during cleaning :) .....after triple-checking that the crown's screwed down correctly!

Paul

Helium diffusion through porous materials is on the atomic/molecular level. The small size of helium and hydrogen molecules can pass through and around rubber molecules in the seal. The rate of diffusion is governed by the pressure differential, temperature and type of rubber. The seal area and volume will govern how fast the pressure equalizes. All gases will diffuse through rubbers, but the bigger oxygen and nitrogen molecules have a much harder time, so the pressure differential must be higher and the time it takes to do it is much, much longer.

Gas will also diffuse through metals and other non-porous materials, but due to the denser molecular structure the temperature and pressure must be extremely high it order for it to occur. For aluminum, the temperature has to be over 550 deg C, so it has to be on the verge of melting in order. This makes it a non-issue.

As to high pressure gas storage, remember these things seal with metal-to-metal seals, so if there is to be diffusion, it will have to be through the metal, which means it does not happen.

Here's a boring paper on the subject.....http://www.arlonstd.com/Library/Guides/ ... t%20al.pdf

As to the wag who quipped:

Even then you could do without and opt for a watch without the need for the gimmick.

Like all engineering problems, there is rarely just one solution, and never ever an only solution. If your design opts out of using an Pressure Relief Valve (PRV) then you have design limitations that will restrict available designs. For example, if you wish to use the very simple, easy to install and commonly available friction fit crystal, you will have to need a PRV, however, if you are willing to use the more expensive, specialized crystals, you can do without a PRV, but you can't have it both ways.....

[Nealywheelie]

^^^It looks to me like you know what you are talking about, along with a few other posters on this topic & I just have to ask myself, why, when this is a fairly complex issue, & one that has been investigated by people like COMEX who worked with Rolex on the ''problem'' of He ingress, do people talk about He valves as ''gimmicks'' or ''marketing tools''. At the end of the day IMO Helium gas can ingress a pressure-proof watch case and although in this instance, i.e. at depth, or under pressure, it needs to be released, the gas escape valve is a great invention for getting over what was/has been a problem for serious diving needs.
The Rolex/COMEX partnership in investigating the problems that exist at extreme depths, resolved this problem, methodically and properly researched, and came up with an answer. If someone gave me the choice to seriously dive with a watch rated at 1000 mts with no He valve, or an alternative rated at 500 mts with one, I, personally would take the 500, because to me I would regard that watch as a more serious instrument as the company has provided it, on the other hand the 1000 mts watch may be a boutique thing that costs a lot less, but has the writing on the dial so to speak, but has never seriously been tested at those limits. Having read the latest Rolex advertising brochure, Perpetual Spirit, Exploration, regarding the DSSD, the watch is rated at 12,800 ft or 3,900 mts on the dial, but is actually tested to 4,875 mts, 25% greater than shown. And yes this watch incorporates an He valve. It may be me, but I 'aint going to argue the point with serious research like this.
I would like to stress BTW that 4,875 mts is an incredible feat of engineering/design & one that is hard to comprehend IMO.
I raise my glass to the He valve, manual or auto'.
Ramble over guys.

[Josh B]

What do Comex know about diving anyways? I'd rather trust the engineers in Seiko or IWCs labs....

[Nalu]

Do they have a valid function?

Of course they do, they keep the crystal from popping out if the internal pressure gets too high.

Can it be done without a pressure relief valve? Yes.

Which boils down to; unneccessary.

As it is expensive and complicated, needing maintenance too it is a toy for the marketing department.

Actually the mechanism is quite straightforward (see the schematic of the Rolex/DOXA design, the first HRV) and rather inexpensive. When buying 'catalog' cases from HK you can have an HRV added for about 20USD in the small quantities the boutique brands order in. Of course maintenance is required, as with any device that gets immersed in salt water regularly.

[Nalu]

Actually, helium will eventually enter the case, no matter what type of rubber is used.

As the result of the experiment, the penetration of helium gas is suppressed by about 1/100 to the conventional watch case...

Still gets in.......

Just a matter of how long before the pressure equalizes.

A lock-in crystal makes the whole question moot.....

The Crystal on a Seiko/Orient SAT diving watch is NOT mechanically locked. The retaining ring just compresses the gaskets and with the right amount of force from the inside the crystal can be removed WITHOUT removing the retaining ring...
- I have seen a graph where a Seiko SAT diver exposed to a pressurised He envinronment only suffered VERY minimal internal pressure increase which leveled off at a very low value, so unless proven otherwise I will not believe that a high He pressure will be reached inside the watch. I would like to know why you do not believe this and proof for these claims....

I suspect you are on a crusade against He valves but for the sake of the discussion......

I also suspect the graph's were Seiko's?

In stasis - where the diver and the watch are at saturation there is no problem whatsoever (this is often missed).

It does not take much internal pressure to 'pop' a watch but if it's bolted together well enough then it will hold and the reverse of the He ingress will occur.

If the watch is always kept in the dry environment of Saturation then it does not need to be waterproof at all and HE ingress/egress is not an issue (other than to those who want an He escape valve!).

Claims are just that.......

As do I.
Interesting that Buddy's got the same answers here as he did on another forum - and from actual working divers at that - and yet he still bangs on about marketing claims and persists in not believing in diffusion. Also for the record: diffusion is a fact of life (literally, we'd be dead without it) and He atoms are the most insidious non-ionised atoms in existence (the two protons in the nucleus pull the first orbit in closer than in a Hydrogen atom and so the effective size is smaller).

[Huertecilla]

What do Comex know about diving anyways? I'd rather trust the engineers in Seiko or IWCs labs....

Why do you think dive experts make experts watch scientists?

Rolex did the same as Seiko did by involving the pudding eaters. Good thinking.
The big difference is that Rolex did not start with a fresh scientific analysis from zero but kept developing pre war concepts.
Another differnce is that Rolex is thé champion of marketing and they did a :shock: with the Comex merchandising whereas Seiko simply sóld their tunas.

[ralphy]

Interesting that Buddy's got the same answers here as he did on another forum - and from actual working divers at that - and yet he still bangs on about marketing claims and persists in not believing in diffusion.

He'd get the same answer from anyone or anywhere, yet will continue to ignore the facts of the matter. Something to do with a closed mind and all that...... :wink:

R

[Tooks]

Interesting thread, but one which raises a question I often think about whilst reading technical argument threads.

My question is, why does a 'working diver' know any more about HRV's etc than anybody else? Why should any answers from such a person be taken more seriously than say a watch designer?

I ask, because a lot of professionals work with high technology without actually knowing how it does what it does.

I've a friend who is a professional helicopter pilot, he wouldn't know more about turbine blade fatigue than a metallurgist, but I accept he has picked up more about the subject than me! Does that give him the right to talk about it as an 'expert' though?

So, I suppose I'm asking who is the real expert regarding HRV's, the designers/manufacturers or the users of the product? How do we know anybody is an expert, and how much of it is legend/myth or just stuff people write on the Internet? (Because everything on the Internet is true, right?!)

Don't know why I'm feeling so philosophical this morning! :lol:

[ralphy]

Interesting thread, but one which raises a question I often think about whilst reading technical argument threads.

My question is, why does a 'working diver' know any more about HRV's etc than anybody else? Why should any answers from such a person be taken more seriously than say a watch designer?

I ask, because a lot of professionals work with high technology without actually knowing how it does what it does.

I've a friend who is a professional helicopter pilot, he wouldn't know more about turbine blade fatigue than a metallurgist, but I accept he has picked up more about the subject than me! Does that give him the right to talk about it as an 'expert' though?

So, I suppose I'm asking who is the real expert regarding HRV's, the designers/manufacturers or the users of the product? How do we know anybody is an expert, and how much of it is legend/myth or just stuff people write on the Internet? (Because everything on the Internet is true, right?!)

Don't know why I'm feeling so philosophical this morning! :lol:

Interesting point.

I don't think a saturation diver should necessarily know more about HRV's, but he is going to know more about the job he does and the environment he works in than most anybody else on the planet. With regards to a watch being designed and built to deal with the sat diving environment then it would be the designers and manufacturers that I'd look towards for expertise in the matter and presumably the sat divers would too.

I don't think there is much of a technical argument going on in here though, everyone (with the sole exception of one member) acknowledges that some helium will enter into a watch subjected to sat diving and that it can cause problems if allowed to leave in a untimely manner during decompression: the debate is how to deal with this fact. As has been said:

Like all engineering problems, there is rarely just one solution, and never ever an only solution.

Of course you can favour one solution over another, but to dismiss one tried and tested solution as a gimmick would suggest the writer falls into the "just stuff written on the Internet" end of the knowledge spectrum. :wink:

R

[lysanderxiii]

Interesting thread, but one which raises a question I often think about whilst reading technical argument threads.

My question is, why does a 'working diver' know any more about HRV's etc than anybody else? Why should any answers from such a person be taken more seriously than say a watch designer?

I ask, because a lot of professionals work with high technology without actually knowing how it does what it does.

I've a friend who is a professional helicopter pilot, he wouldn't know more about turbine blade fatigue than a metallurgist, but I accept he has picked up more about the subject than me! Does that give him the right to talk about it as an 'expert' though?

So, I suppose I'm asking who is the real expert regarding HRV's, the designers/manufacturers or the users of the product? How do we know anybody is an expert, and how much of it is legend/myth or just stuff people write on the Internet? (Because everything on the Internet is true, right?!)

Don't know why I'm feeling so philosophical this morning! :lol:

Well your friend the helicopter pilot, would be able to talk more expertly on the subject of turbine wheel fatigue that you, wouldn’t he? And, unless there was a engineer present, he would be the resident expert....

As to pressure relief valves, they are not some super complicated piece of high tech equipment (see the image below, it’s the Doxa/Rolex patent) and they have been around since man first learned how to pressurize gas. Steam engines of the 1820s had devices exactly like that on their boilers, it’s a pat design.

As several people pointed out, gas will diffuse through porous materials, like rubber. Given that fact extended exposure to a high pressure helium environment will lead to a pressure increase on the inside of the watch case. Unless you know of some way to circumvent the laws of physics, saturation divers watches will have to deal with this phenomenon.

As I see it, from an engineering point of view, there are two ways to deal with the problem, 1) make it so the increased internal pressure cannot damage the watch, eg lock the crystal in place, or 2) allow the pressure to escape before it becomes a problem.

All of this is Engineering 101, not anything specific to watches or diving....

(Oh, and a helicopter pilot might know a lot more about the general causes of fatigue of turbine blades than the average metallurgist. Although, the metallurgist might be better equipped to confirm that a specific failure was fatigue, or explain the micro-mechanics of metal fatigue.)

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Interesting that Buddy's got the same answers here as he did on another forum - and from actual working divers at that - and yet he still bangs on about marketing claims and persists in not believing in diffusion.

He'd get the same answer from anyone or anywhere, yet will continue to ignore the facts of the matter. Something to do with a closed mind and all that...... :wink:

R

Some folks just can't accept facts.......

A case of keeping chasing an answer/answers that match a preconception/opinion.

[Nealywheelie]

HEV's work. No more, no less, they just...........WORK. They DO what they were designed to do for goodness sake, tell me they don't, and I mean post a reply that says ''He'' escape valves don't work'', & I'll happily be enlightened. If they are just a marketing 'gimmick', then come up with some evidence that they are just that.
Great thread this BTW.

[buddy13]

My mate had a leaking roof in his convertible BMW a few months back...

Thinking about it I should have simply drilled a hole in the floorpan for him. It would have 'quite simply worked'. I am not trying to prove something I just said that I hated having my case drilled to fit a release valve 'is all..

I do not think I should be branded as ignorant, close minded and so on (especially by photographers :lol: )....

[MartynJC (UK)]

Ok I will admit it. I HATE Helium release valves (though I have 2 so equipped watches in my most modest collection)...in my opinion a dive watch manufacturer should not let He infiltrate the watch in the first place, so my hat's off to Seiko Engineers...

But I am curious as to whether you like having an HRV on your watch or not..and if so do you prefer a manual or automatic HRV?

I'll start....I'll rather NOT have an HRV, but if my watch has one then I prefer it to be manual. Reason is that this has an extra barrier against water intrusion...
So what are your thoughts?

To answer your question - My thought is YES - I LIKE He valves on my watches!!

The 1200m auto valve


And this is Omegas' take on the use of their (manual) valves:





I have a Seamaster 300m 'Bond' - and it adds individuality IMHO to the watch. The 1200m I had has left my collection but at the prices EJ are selling new ones for I may get another off the shelf!!

[lysanderxiii]

My mate had a leaking roof in his convertible BMW a few months back...

Thinking about it I should have simply drilled a hole in the floorpan for him. It would have 'quite simply worked'. I am not trying to prove something I just said that I hated having my case drilled to fit a release valve 'is all..

I do not think I should be branded as ignorant, close minded and so on (especially by photographers :lol: )....

Well, I will brand you ignorant for that analogy......

It shows you have no understanding of the physics and engineering involved.

[ralphy]

I do not think I should be branded as ignorant, close minded and so on (especially by photographers :lol: )....

You're not the 'Buddy' being so branded: certainly not by me, nor (I suspect) by Colin (Nalu).

(Unless of course you too don't accept the laws of physics. :wink: )

R '

[Chris_in_the_UK]

My mate had a leaking roof in his convertible BMW a few months back...

Thinking about it I should have simply drilled a hole in the floorpan for him. It would have 'quite simply worked'. I am not trying to prove something I just said that I hated having my case drilled to fit a release valve 'is all..

I do not think I should be branded as ignorant, close minded and so on (especially by photographers :lol: )....

Buy a different watch then - simples.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

My mate had a leaking roof in his convertible BMW a few months back...

Thinking about it I should have simply drilled a hole in the floorpan for him. It would have 'quite simply worked'. I am not trying to prove something I just said that I hated having my case drilled to fit a release valve 'is all..

I do not think I should be branded as ignorant, close minded and so on (especially by photographers :lol: )....

Well, I will brand you ignorant for that analogy......

It shows you have no understanding of the physics and engineering involved.

Indeed - very poor analogy which indicates a basic lack of understanding about the physics and mechanics involved.

[walkerwek1958]

Disregarding the bickering that's crept into this thread.... :roll: ....there's a LOT of good info re. the role of the He valve and the need for it on serious dive watches. A fine example of the best and worst of TZ-UK....I`ve added my input whilst wearing my serious head but all this talk of helium set me off reminiscing.

Slightly OT but hopefully it'll lighten the mood:

During a 35yr stint in the chemical industry as a (fairly)responsible Chemist I used Helium many times. However, even in the recent climate of Health & Safety, certain individuals couldn`t resist the childish (but extremely amusing) trick of breathing helium and consequently talking like a cartoon character for the next minute :D One guy answered the phone whilst doing this....fortunately it wasn`t his boss on the other end! In the good old days when Friday lunchtimes were spent in the pub it was not uncommon to hear helium enhanced conversations in the afternoon.

Even at the age of 50-something, this trick still makes me howl with laughter :)

How does it work? It's all to do with the lower density and sound-transmitting properties of helium versus air; it changes the sound generated in the voice-box, that's why it makes people talk like Pinky & Perky :) .

Paul

[silver centurian]

Never been a problem for me :| ;i'll never use the valves for what they were designed for :lol: .
Having bought 3 of them it goes without saying in my experience they dont effect comfort in wearing and i dont think they spoil the looks of the watch :wink:

[lysanderxiii]

Disregarding the bickering that's crept into this thread.... :roll: ....there's a LOT of good info re. the role of the He valve and the need for it on serious dive watches. A fine example of the best and worst of TZ-UK....I`ve added my input whilst wearing my serious head but all this talk of helium set me off reminiscing.

Slightly OT but hopefully it'll lighten the mood:

During a 35yr stint in the chemical industry as a (fairly)responsible Chemist I used Helium many times. However, even in the recent climate of Health & Safety, certain individuals couldn`t resist the childish (but extremely amusing) trick of breathing helium and consequently talking like a cartoon character for the next minute :D One guy answered the phone whilst doing this....fortunately it wasn`t his boss on the other end! In the good old days when Friday lunchtimes were spent in the pub it was not uncommon to hear helium enhanced conversations in the afternoon.

Even at the age of 50-something, this trick still makes me howl with laughter :)

How does it work? It's all to do with the lower density and sound-transmitting properties of helium versus air; it changes the sound generated in the voice-box, that's why it makes people talk like Pinky & Perky :) .

Paul

Makes me wounder how anyone can stay focused on work when breathing that stuff.....

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Disregarding the bickering that's crept into this thread.... :roll: ....there's a LOT of good info re. the role of the He valve and the need for it on serious dive watches. A fine example of the best and worst of TZ-UK....I`ve added my input whilst wearing my serious head but all this talk of helium set me off reminiscing.

Slightly OT but hopefully it'll lighten the mood:

During a 35yr stint in the chemical industry as a (fairly)responsible Chemist I used Helium many times. However, even in the recent climate of Health & Safety, certain individuals couldn`t resist the childish (but extremely amusing) trick of breathing helium and consequently talking like a cartoon character for the next minute :D One guy answered the phone whilst doing this....fortunately it wasn`t his boss on the other end! In the good old days when Friday lunchtimes were spent in the pub it was not uncommon to hear helium enhanced conversations in the afternoon.

Even at the age of 50-something, this trick still makes me howl with laughter :)

How does it work? It's all to do with the lower density and sound-transmitting properties of helium versus air; it changes the sound generated in the voice-box, that's why it makes people talk like Pinky & Perky :) .

Paul

Makes me wounder how anyone can stay focused on work when breathing that stuff.....

It is often used to commit suicide.

[seadog1408]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

[ralphy]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

[seadog1408]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

they have comms which have a unscrambler in , but most of the guys get used to the phrases used in the chamber ie, shitter flush/pot of hot.!! so can determine what we want. :D

[Dibergio]

Never been a problem for me :| ;i'll never use the valves for what they were designed for :lol: .
Having bought 3 of them it goes without saying in my experience they dont effect comfort in wearing and i dont think they spoil the looks of the watch :wink:

Nice shot. Not seen the 2254 on a bond before.

HE valves like the 300m waterproofing will never be tested by me - 40m is the most I'd be likely to go and then I'd probably leave the 2254 on land.

Aesthetically I like the way they look.

[silver centurian]

I was a "good customer" at my AD several years ago when i bought the Black SMP;i asked if they would swap bracelets for me,the speedy style for the Bond design.The manager O.K'd it and thats how i bought it :wink:

[Nalu]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

When I was doing this as a student, we identified ourselves over the radio, just as any military person would, e.g. Red Diver. That way, you had no need to 'recognise' a strange voice.

As far as SMEs go: when I became a flight surgeon I was always impressed with how knowledgeable aviators were about their physiology and how interested they were in how things worked. Several former pilot patients of mine went on to PA school and med school. A few years later when I became a DMO I was again surprised at how much medicine divers know. I'd put their medical knowledge an order of magnitude above that of aviators. IOW, they know a lot about everything in their field and if they don't or can't learn it they usually end up doing something else, either lying in a box underground or in another field. Moreover, the HRV is an overpressure valve, as Lysander points out. Sat divers deal with these things as part of the work environment every day, diving or not. The ones on the watch are just a bit smaller :wink:

[ralphy]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

When I was doing this as a student, we identified ourselves over the radio, just as any military person would, e.g. Red Diver. That way, you had no need to 'recognise' a strange voice.

I was thinking more about the difficulty for the ones on the outside to hold conversation with those in the chamber.

R

[Chris_in_the_UK]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

When I was doing this as a student, we identified ourselves over the radio, just as any military person would, e.g. Red Diver. That way, you had no need to 'recognise' a strange voice.

I was thinking more about the difficulty for the ones on the outside to hold conversations with those in the chamber.

R

There is a propriety 'unscrambler' but a good supervisor knows his divers.

[seadog1408]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

When I was doing this as a student, we identified ourselves over the radio, just as any military person would, e.g. Red Diver. That way, you had no need to 'recognise' a strange voice.

I was thinking more about the difficulty for the ones on the outside to hold conversations with those in the chamber.

R

dont really need "red diver " these days as we are always on camera, so the guys outside can see who is speaking,

[Nalu]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

When I was doing this as a student, we identified ourselves over the radio, just as any military person would, e.g. Red Diver. That way, you had no need to 'recognise' a strange voice.

I was thinking more about the difficulty for the ones on the outside to hold conversation with those in the chamber.

R

That's what I was talking about. The guys in the chamber know who they're diving with :wink: Good to know tech has improved, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the military still using low tech - just as pilots with glass cockpits and all the satellite/nav kit in the world still carry a 'map and a stubby pencil'.

[lysanderxiii]

^^^^^

you dont tend to notice it after the initial novelty has worn off. takes more effort to speak and your voice doesnt carry in the chamber it just kind of stops dead so you have to be quiet close together to hold a conversation.

I imagine those communicating with you from outside the chamber must 'learn' your different speech sounds?

R

When I was doing this as a student, we identified ourselves over the radio, just as any military person would, e.g. Red Diver. That way, you had no need to 'recognise' a strange voice.

I was thinking more about the difficulty for the ones on the outside to hold conversation with those in the chamber.

R

That's what I was talking about. The guys in the chamber know who they're diving with :wink: Good to know tech has improved, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the military still using low tech - just as pilots with glass cockpits and all the satellite/nav kit in the world still carry a 'map and a stubby pencil'.

And a whiz wheel.....

[buddy13]

I am actually impressed by how this thread was turned into a cock measuring competition by some scholars here, who want to show us how much they know about diffusion, chemistry, physics and engineering in general :lol: ...

Look I don't really care if you are a theoritical physicist, a doctor, pilot, mathematician or have a PhD in anything...those things simply do not impress me. I am a graduate mechanical engineer but I'd be much more impressed with someone having an olympic medal rather than a 'bookworm' university professor :lol: ...

Let me assure you that I know a thing or two about diffusion of gases through solids :) . I know that pressure differential, temperature, density and molecular size play part in the equations/laws (I can't be arsed to look for them right now :lol: ). Lysanderxiii you come around as the 'nerdy theoritician' type :D . Posting all kinds of scientific stuff, drawings etc...just be aware that in the real world some theories do not hold true due to the myriad of factors in play. I know this from experience.

What I know for sure is that Seiko has found a way to limit He intrusion and that simply at the pressures He Divers work and for the duration, He pressure build up inside the watch will simply be negligible. I know for sure that the 'L' shaped gasket will make the diffusion distance much larger than your typical gasket and denser due to locking meachanism. I have not heard of any reports of Seiko crystals blowing off, so no matter how much scientific evidence you provide I am simply going to go with what Seiko are saying.

An HRV on a watch will not stop me from buying it. In fact I've had many and I still have an Omega SMP and a PO with a manual/auto hybrid HRV. This thread was simply aimed to show who likes HRV's and who doesn't. And what are his reasons for his decision...

If I wanted a lecture in HRV build, diffusion and what not I would have got my engineering books out....

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I am actually impressed by how this thread was turned into a cock measuring competition by some scholars here, who want to show us how much they know about diffusion, chemistry, physics and engineering in general :lol: ...

Look I don't really care if you are a theoritical physicist, a doctor, pilot, mathematician or have a PhD in anything...those things simply do not impress me. I am a graduate mechanical engineer but I'd be much more impressed with someone having an olympic medal rather than a 'bookworm' university professor :lol: ...

Let me assure you that I know a thing or two about diffusion of gases through solids :) . I know that pressure differential, temperature, density and molecular size play part in the equations/laws (I can't be arsed to look for them right now :lol: ). Lysander you come around as the 'nerdy' type :D . Posting all kinds of scientific stuff, drawings etc...just be aware that in the real world some theories do not hold true due to the myriad of factors in play. I know this from experience.

What I know for sure is that Seiko has found a way to limit He intrusion and that simply at the pressures He Divers work and for the duration, He pressure build up inside the watch will simply be negligible. I know for sure that the 'L' shaped gasket will make the diffusion distance much larger than your typical gasket and denser due to locking meachanism. I have not heard of any reports of Seiko crystals blowing off, so no matter how much scientific evidence you provide I am simply going to go with what Seiko are saying.

An HRV on a watch will not stop me from buying it. In fact I've had many and I still have an Omega SMP and a PO with a manual/auto hybrid HRV. This thread was simply aimed to show who likes HRV's and who doesn't. And what are his reasons for his decision...

If I wanted a lecture in HRV build, diffusion and what not I would have got my engineering books out....

Maybe you should have made that a little more clear?

I for one do not really understand your motive, philosophy or attitude - but hey, enjoy your watches (or not).

As for the 'measuring competition' - you just did :lol:

[buddy13]

Maybe you should have made that a little more clear?

I for one do not really understand your motive, philosophy or attitude - but hey, enjoy your watches (or not).

As for the 'measuring competition' - you just did :lol:

Did I beat you :shock: ? Ok let's call it a tie :lol: ....

[WatchScout]

For crying out loud, OP!

Just buy a UTS Pro Diver 3000.

No HEV, no need - and the construction of that behemoth is so, that the crystal will NEVER blow off.