I went to London yesterday, mainline standing room only, packed like sardines, underground exactly the same, then going home the same, travelled for three hours and stood all the way. I can understand the infrastructure and capacity issues but if any of the trains I travelled on yesterday crashed at any speed the mess would have been horrific. If I put 10 people in my 5 seat car I get prosecuted, with all of the health and safety madness why don’t they? How do the train companies get away with it?
Good point Adrian..............Welcome to the high investment train companies of 2011.
As for the tube................Sigh..........
I use the northern line to Bank from Euston and Chalk Farm and - well need I say more.
Most of our political class dont even think the Northern line exists
Brian
Did you get angry at youths with headphones playing music too loud???
if the trains are too crowded , just get on top, thats what they do in other parts of the world :roll:
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Originally Posted by seikopath
I agree with the sentiment, I rarely use the trains, think i'll stick to the car.
I went to Covent Garden last Thursday.... awful on the tube I got the bus back to Liverpool Street far more civilised although so slow. I got off and walked the last 1/4 of a mile. Come on Boris sort it out!! :wink:
The tube is a great way to get around London. It can be crowded, but if its a route you use regularly, you get to know where to stand on the platform to give you the best chance of a seat.
Worked in London and used the Central Line for years and knew the times and positions to maximise getting a seat.
It makes me laugh all those people who say we should use public transport more. Apart from the fact that our whole way of life has changed so it is hard not to use a car for shopping etc how do all those extra people get on to trains and tubes that are already packed?
I use the East Coast mainline every week and it's usually ok but just wait for the snow to come and see what happens!
I think it would be best if you booked a numbered seat, with no standing allowed.
When I travel in Europe many of the train operators use double deck trains, why can that not be done in the
UK to sort out the capacity issues ?
I have to agree that it is a joke, having recently been given the wrong ticket by work I was told I had to pay an additional £236.......to stand up for 2 hours!
RIAC
I always sit in the quiet carriages and still the idiots do it!!!
:evil: :evil: :evil:
These days I'm lucky and normally can plan to travel off peak and as the local station is near the end of the line it's not normally too bad.
I like the tube but it being busy doesn't bother me as when I get up top is always busy on the street.
Mind you the train I'm waiting for now is nearly 2 hours late as someone jumped in front of a train earlier today
I love a good tube journey to remind me what life was like before deoderant
RIAC
Loading gauge. The size (width and height) of trains allowed on most lines in the UK is smaller than most other countries. As I understand it this is a corollary of having industrialised first and built a railway network first. It's like the old 640K DOS memory limit -- who thought anyone would need more space?
New lines (of which there are very few of course) are, I understand, built to a larger international loading gauge but the cost of enlarging bridges, tunnels, track bed spacing, etc. would be astronomical for existing lines. A moe efficient way of increasing capacity is probably better signaling and faster trains but even this is difficult on existing lines and is, in itself, very expensive.
In short, being an early adopter can leave one with bigger bills further down the line (pun intended).
I'm not sure I can, in every case. I often go to and from the north west by train, which means Virgin. Usually, just under half of their carriages are 1st class (ruinously expensive and empty) with the remainder being 2nd class, standing room only and merely extortionate. This has nothing to do with infrastructure and is only tangentially linked to capacity, in that capacity is being artificially lowered to bully people into choosing an even more expensive ticket.I can understand the infrastructure and capacity issues
As for the tube, broadly speaking it doesn't seem much worse than it's ever been, although breakdowns and serious delays seem to have increased in frequency, and the new Victoria line trains are pretty unpleasant. The worst thing about it these days is the volume of the announcements, which can be shocking - e.g. at Kennington when one can get simultaneous messages (saying the same thing) from the driver and the station, both at deafening volume. Absolutely unnecessary - giving a driver licence to use a microphone for anything other than an emergency is just asking for trouble.
I went to London once - that was enough for me! :roll:
Mike
There is an excellent book about the issues surrounding mainline trains and how they came about called "11 Minutes Late".Well worth a read.
I haven't read that, although I have read the Wolmar book referred to; also very good.
Overcrowded trains are a pain :(
After a particularly bad experience with Grand Central (I`d bought what I thought was a reserved seat 10 weeks previously) I complained to their customer services.
When I raised the safety issue, the answer surprised me. There are NO guidelines to limit capacity/overcrowding, it's really a case of getting as many on as possible. When I questioned whether the gross weight could be an issue I was told that trials have been carried using weights, to prove that the train is still capable of running when full. This last statement might apply only to the train in question and might not be generally applicable.
Regarding the overcrowding, I was told that, in the event of a crash, the risk of injury is LOWER on a crowded train because there's no space for people to fly around and hit things! I can see some logic in this, it's a bit like packing a parcel and using bubble-wrap to pad the space out :)
I really wish our railways were better because, on a good day, the train is the best way to traveldistances. Sadly, the good days are all too few :(
Paul
I haven't read the Wolmar book about the train system but I have read the one he wrote about the tube "The Subterranean Railway" and it's excellent.
I've had a couple who had the train in stitches, so it's not all bad.
If only our railways were like those in Japan.
Went on a round trip today from Southampton to York and back. Booked on Trainline - cost of £170 for prebook vs £400+ (Yes £400) for a 1st class ticket. Not much less for standard class.
East Coast is a pleasure to travel on. Free food & drink, very comfortable seat - although packed with grumpy Scots on way up. Southwest trains less so - a fatality at New Malden (apparently) screwed up the timetable. On the way back Waterloo was like Wembley on cup final day with staff (including management) doing their best to apologise in person to frustrated travellers. they were very polite and sympathetic to those whose plans had been torpedoed by the event : I was impressed.
I've spent nearly 8 hours in total sitting on trains today but got a fair amount of work done on the way. I used to commute daily to London but couldn't face that these days. I do think that a lot of travel could be avoided if people in service businesses planned their working lives better and used teleconferencing more and just worked from home a few days a month (worked for me, YMMV)
Some European transport systems are marginally better, but at higher public subsidy. I think we have thhe right balance.
:)Loading gauge. The size (width and height) of trains allowed on most lines in the UK is smaller than most other countries. As I understand it this is a corollary of having industrialised first and built a railway network first. It's like the old 640K DOS memory limit -- who thought anyone would need more space?
New lines (of which there are very few of course) are, I understand, built to a larger international loading gauge but the cost of enlarging bridges, tunnels, track bed spacing, etc. would be astronomical for existing lines. A moe efficient way of increasing capacity is probably better signaling and faster trains but even this is difficult on existing lines and is, in itself, very expensive.
In short, being an early adopter can leave one with bigger bills further down the line (pun intended).
I think it's outrageous that your ticket price doesn't guarantee you a seat, so for me, it's the car.
But I'll always use the tube to get across town.
I just used to get up early and go to the gym....crowding problem solved and could get a seat under or overground.
If you decide to travel so you get into work at 9am like the majority of people do then its going to happen. Like pretty much everywhere else in the world.
I think they should definitely expand services but the price would bankrupt a private company. The government (well, actually the tax payer) will have to fund it.
My solution was to move to Australia, my commute is only 20mins front door to desk now and I can always get a seat. They use double decker trains here. I realise this is a little too drastic a move for most! :D
I guess it's all about rush hour.
On the occasion I go to town it's a five minute walk to the station and then a nice comfortable 25 minute journey to Victoria or London Bridge in a pretty empty compartment. :D
Cheers,
Neil.
I regularly take a 1 1/2 hr journey into London and am often made to stand for pretty much the whole journey, it's disgraceful when a return ticket costs almost £70.
I don't know what can be done but one things for sure, public transport will never be a viable option until this is sorted out.
Just my twopenneth worth (is that a word)
If I'm travelling for more than an hour I try to go in 1st on the East Coast line as it's often not much more than standard. I booked a few weeks ago for today and 1st was actually cheaper as all the low price standard tickets had been sold. I also try to split the journey buying a ticket from Leeds to Grantham or Newark and then one from there to London. Splitting the tickets like this often means getting a 1st class ticket for similar money to an equivalent single standard ticket.
just booked a return from South Wales to Paddinton for January, 2 adults and a kid on a Sat, £50 return in total for the 3 of us with reserved seats. Also booked our tickets for the Olympics next Aug, 2 adults, 2 kids £80 return all in, great value IMO
I thought I made it clear in the post, I was travelling off peak, Liverpool street line and central line.
It jsut puts me off travelling by train, I can get a parking space in London so in future I wont bother, but while it's like that people will stick to there cars.
TBH the tube isn't great, but i'd hate to think what things would be like if we didn't one it.
Make sure you get there in plenty of time when returning from Paddington, as reserved seat tickets are often ignored and you may find your seats occupied. Might not be such a problem on a weekend, but weekday early evenings can be quite a battle zone.
I have had this a few times in the past but never had a problem getting people to move :wink:Make sure you get there in plenty of time when returning from Paddington, as reserved seat tickets are often ignored and you may find your seats occupied. Might not be such a problem on a weekend, but weekday early evenings can be quite a battle zone.
I hear you.I thought I made it clear in the post, I was travelling off peak, Liverpool street line and central line.
It jsut puts me off travelling by train, I can get a parking space in London so in future I wont bother, but while it's like that people will stick to there cars.
I would never travel by train usually but it is just very convenient for me now.
I drove into London for many years and every year the traffic got worse and then they bought in the congestion charge :evil:
Fortunately I had packed it in by then.
Cheers,
Neil.
Thrown off an empty train from Norwich today as it was the 2.30pm rather than the 3pm I'd originally booked on, and charged £16 for the privilege. Needless to say, the 3pm train was late, over-crowded and no tickets were checked. Yes, I was in the wrong, assuming one reads the rules to the letter and spirit (the spirit being to shaft the customer at every opportunity), but given that neither train was "peak", I really can't see what the point was other than to provide some job satisfaction for some jumped up little pr*ck. I would have minded less were it not for the fact that my day had already been disrupted by delays on the same line making me two hours late for an event I was speaking at.
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