I just purchased a super quartz watch from the sales corner, it’s a high end model.
Received the watch this Friday and was initially very please with it condition well represented in photos fast delivery.
Upon wearing the watch I realised after the first couple of days the watch was running 20 secs fast, I thought I must have made a mistake when setting the time. However after further testing it is running 10 sec a day fast which is not good for a super quartz.
I went back to the seller told him I was not happy and would like my money back.
His response was - I have spent the money so you can't have it back take it to Breitling.
While I appreciate the watch still has 12 month warranty on it, I do not feel it’s my place to sort such an issue out on a watch I have only had 5 days.
Repeated request for a change of hart have met with no success.
I am most disappointed especially as I specifically asked the seller are there any issues with the watch not mentioned in you post to which I got a big negative - everything is fine.
The only bit I can see may be my fault is I gave a fast thank for the watch really please with it when it arrived, and on this post he may have spent the money!.
Before o post in the H&V section I would like the opinion of others please.
If this is the wrong section to post please advise by PM and i will move accordingley.
Regards
Rob
+10s / day is not what I'd expect from a 'superquartz'.....
....however, if the rest of the watch is as described (and they are hard to come by) I might live with it and sort it later.
I appreciate your quandry.
Was the accuracy mentioned in the ad (accepting the 'superquartz label, of course)?
The problem with these posts is that it only takes 2 clicks to find the original post, so you can never ask for opinions without everyone knowing the seller.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=190420&p=1931893&hilit=breitli ng#p1931893
Anyway, back to the question, I'd be of the opinion that if the moneys been spent, then there's not much you can do....send it off to Breitling. How long should the seller be expected to keep the money for? You'd already given him a hero post in H&V.
Sounds bad for a thermo-compensated movement though...something seriously going wrong there.
Edited to add - seller has previous for not wanting to give refunds! :wink:
The best excuse I've ever heard.Originally Posted by robmellor
I think you should request your money back, 10sec/day is not acceptable even for a regular quartz.
edit, I missed that it is still under warranty. Then if seller does not pay, send it to Breitling.
I've never understood those people who can spend this sort of money as soon as they get it leaving themselves with nothing spare. If I spend money on a watch it's because it's totally 'spare' money, there will still be plenty left in the pot.
But, the situation is how it is and bearing in mind the watch is under warranty I would have thought that the honourable thing for the seller to do would be to offer you a proportion (10% - 20%) of the price back for your inconvenience of having to deal with Breitling and be without the watch for a few weeks. And if they don't have that cash then the new purchase will have to go on Sales Corner.
For comparison my Omega Seamaster has gained 15 seconds over the last 5-7 months (can't quite remember when I last adjusted it). Think yourself lucky it can go back under warranty.
What's the facts and figures on SQ regarding time loss......?
Could the battery be dying ?
I know if I was the seller ( I'm not defending them ) it wouldn't cross my mind that it was running fast / slow. However I always check my stuff against my waveceptor to give clear figures on timekeeping.
I would be very annoyed being in your shoes. But if it's under warrantly I'd send it away for full peace of mind. You may end up with a complete new movement, which would be a nice bonus for you.
Honorable thing is for seller to issue a refund, in the spirit of this particular SC anyway.
Nope, you are wrong. The seller has sold a watch that's not in line with the description. The seller should refund the dosh and and send it back to Brietling himself. What cheek, he deserves to be a villain.The best excuse I've ever heard.
I think you should request your money back, 10sec/day is not acceptable even for a regular quartz.
edit, I missed that it is still under warranty. Then if seller does not pay, send it to Breitling.
A warning perhaps? :).
http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic...oost*#p1871800
I was one of the only ones that said this was unnaceptable, whilst others were defending him!
Mark
Hard to say, did you ask about time keeping? if he had said "time keeping is good" then i'd be pissed, but really for a superquartz that generally would go without saying, and it is the sellers responsibility to check and describe their watch accurately, so in that case a refund should be given, and if not then they are a villian.
But seeing as the all clear was given by you, then it would be hard to expect a refund, as that could be seen as misleading?!
Frankly if i where them, you'd get a refund, a big "sorry matey didn't know". If i didn't have the cash then a big "sorry what can i do to help? considering the cash has been spent?" if thats the case then maybe they're not a villian, but just not an ideal person to deal with...
Best to let people know...
My opinion...
"JOE BLOGGS" NOT A GOOD GUY, BUT NOT A VILLAIN - (Then explain etc)
This way people doing a check can see trouble in the past, that was not totally their fault..
Seems fair to me, what say you?
I agree. It leaves a sour taste as the seller must have known this issue.
Did you not check H&V?
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Yes i did chech H&V and saw the issue with the oil filled watch but other than that there was lots of good fedback, i always check H&V before a purchase.Did you not check H&V?
I think you have prity much nailed it there for me.
I'm just playing Devils advocate here and not having a pop at the OP or taking sides. As i stated earlier if I was the OP I would not be happy.
But if I was the seller I wouldn't be happy either. The issue has been raised after 5 days of ownership and after the all clear has been given.
How do I, as the seller, know what the new owner has been doing with the watch...they could have dropped it, abused it or been working in a highly magnetic area.
I know this is unlikely, but as the seller I would be asking questions. Only thing here is the seller has "previous" as has been highlighted.
When I get a watch the first thing I do is check it against my waveceptor and I usually leave it for 48 hours before I post a Hero thread.
Probably hasn't help but I can see both sides here.
Under warranty, I'd send her away and get her good as new. Inconvient I know but it would put my mind ar rest.
Hope it all works out well.
I too check accuracy over the first 24 hours, but with a quartz (super or otherwise) there should really be no need. Either the seller genuinely did not know of the issue or was being economical with the truth in his sales description. Or the watch was damaged in transit. Only the seller can tell us which.
I don't know.
If the seller hadn't had it long, taken it in trade, or wasn't much interested enough in it to monitor timekeeping I can understand the balls up.
If he was being economical then that's a different matter.
If it's under warranty and breit can fix then you have that option.
I'd be annoyed at the hassle though.
Pretty clear cut in my opinion. The seller should refund in full and send the watch to Breitling himself.
If the buyer really wants the watch and feels they got a good price, keep it and send it in yourself.
I fail to see how anyone could fail to notice that the quartz watch they were selling was gaining 10 secs a day.
I do hope this isn't a .... ' oh I got the watch and don't really like it after all'
Did you clarify if timekeeping was good before buying if it's so important to you ?rather than asking are there any issues ? Maybe not as it's an SQ ! Just as the seller may have assumed all was OK and not checked timekeeping as it's pretty new , I don't think this is a money back case TBH, only my view of course .
Having had a think about this, if you are buying a super-quartz aerospace, I think unless stated that the timing is dodgy, I think you've got a right to expect it to perform as a super-quartz.
I'm adding Mr Zero-Refund-Policy to my list of sellers to avoid. :D
I actually think that this is one of those cases where it's hard to form a definitive view of the rights and wrongs. I guess that the watch could be sent to Breitling under warranty, and this will resolve the problem whilst being pretty inconvenient for the OP. Should the seller have known about the timekeeping issue? Probably, but possibly not.
What is most worrying to me is a very rigid "don't come back to me with problems" policy on the part of the seller and this how now been demonstrated twice in rapid succession. To my mind, it smacks of someone who places more stock in legal, than in moral obligations, and that's someone who I'll not be buying from myself. No doubt anyone selling to him will bear this in mind too, as what's good for the goose...
Look, if you feel aggrieved then post in H&V.
These hint topics in Watch Talk or anywhere else only end up there, so make the decision and you will either be supported in your views or proven wrong.
It's fair a seller may have spent up after the time lag mentioned here, so even if he wanted to refund maybe he can't. Language differences are often to blame for the blunt communication by PM. Thankfully it's under warranty and BUK are great to deal with. OP, I'd send it direct and not via an AD by the way. If you don't have details, feel free to PM.
Very simple for me. SQ not working as it should, five days is not an excessively long period of time, seller should refund and sort himself. "I have spent your money" may be true but is very poor nevertheless. Take it to H&V.
It looks like you now will need to send the watch back to Breitling, which is not ideal, but I'm thinking that none of this is helping the cause of the new 250 post brigade, as I and probably others will look even harder at H & V before deciding who can and cannot be trusted.
Tricky, especially as you gave the all clear, but presumably the 12 months warranty was reflected in the price and one of the things that attracted you to the deal. I'd use what I've paid for, the warranty, and get it back to top notch.
Did the seller mean to deceive - who knows. Did something happen in transit - no one knows. The seller could just as likely claim you're a buyer with a change of heart or damaged the watch yourself.
Me, I'd give you a refund, have it fixed under warranty (if it's valid) and sell it in perfect working order.
Gray
Seller sold you a faulty watch.
Seller won't refund you.
Seller = villain.
I'd like to hear the other side of the story before commenting
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
TBH I don't check if it's running fast or slow whether I am selling one or buying.
It's not a big deal for me as if the watch is as described and in the condition of the pics the other issue can be sorted easily. If no questions were asked about it then I don't think it's fair as the seller may never have checked
After all the condition to me is important and they are secondhand watches and not new. Whether they say super or not they will have had an element of use and this will mean something somewhere will be wrong with it.
I don't think it's a villain for me as I suspect most dealers would fob you off and say "it's a secondhand watch".
It's under warranty and if it's to your liking and was a reasonable price then I think its a fair deal.
I would genuinely not time a watch before selling and would have no idea as to what it's losing/ gaining.
I'm sure most of the watches I have bought have gained or lost but I haven't the time :mrgreen: to be sitting watching them all. Likewise the buyers as I've had no comebacks.
I was typing as this came up.
The only thing I will say is sometimes when I sell it's to fund a purchase on SC so that money will immediately be spent along with a top up. Thankfully I have not had to deal with any problems but I suppose that's down to description and perceptions of the goods.
As the poster says it a secondhand Market .
+1
john
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
Absolutely, spot on,
I could afford to buy a couple of Rolex sports models out of my immediately available cash but what I actually feel is available if something nice comes up on SC is maybe £1000 absolute tops probably nearer £500.
Agree with the others, reading posts like this is a bit disappointing all round... I have bought off SC, & whilst I agree it is a 2nd hand market it does involve a fair amount of trust from both parties - bank transfer before watch is sent & of course the condition of the watch being as described - witness how hard it is to sell a watch on here without photos even if you trust the vendor impeccably.
I would share the disappointment of any quartz that kept time that badly, especially a "super-quartz" & am sure the seller must have been at least aware of the problem (maybe at the back of his mind) as the first thing most people with a new watch is set the time to the radio/speaking clock etc. & being quartz it won't exactly have stopped to notice the loss/gain.
The buyer at least has the option of returning the watch to Breitling under warranty & as others have said it is a 2nd hand market which is frequently mentioned as being better value than Blowers etc. but obviously with a different level of protection...
Reading of these problems disapoints me as I have bought & sold on all sorts of forums over the years & generally they are a community & you expect to be dealt with better than eBay by both the buyer & seller. If it were my watch & reputation I would have taken it back but given the seller won't then I would send it to Breitling & get it adjusted & move on.
Two points: (i) this shouldn't be in 'Watch Talk', (ii) the description of the watch was [s:3fx1sqpn]inaccurate[/s:3fx1sqpn] incomplete (to say the least) and the seller should issue a refund IMO. Villain in my book.
-1+1
john
Sorry - there is no evidence the seller willfully sold a faulty watch.
It wouldn't be the first time an item came to harm during a bumpy trip through whatever hazards in the postal system, for instance.
What we can say is that he may have acted with less than good grace - I'm inclined to view that as a yellow rather than a straight red card though.
I think MB2 has the right idea - be glad you were smart enough to buy with a warranty, mutter a curse while typing up an 'approach with caution' post and move on.
Exactly my thoughts on the matter
If you buy a car from a dealer you can expect to take it back if, for example, the power doesn't seem right.
However if you buy a car privately under warranty then you go back to the manufacturer to get it sorted, not the bloke who sold it to you.
It's within the OP's power to resolve the situation. If it was out of warranty I might think differently.
Lastly I'm astonished that people have so much capital tied up in high end watches. Wonder if these people are also mortgaged up to the hilt with these low interest rates?
I will accept your position, if the seller said somewhere that the timekeeping of the watch was perfect when it was in his hands.-1+1
john
Sorry - there is no evidence the seller willfully sold a faulty watch.
It wouldn't be the first time an item came to harm during a bumpy trip through whatever hazards in the postal system, for instance.
What we can say is that he may have acted with less than good grace - I'm inclined to view that as a yellow rather than a straight red card though.
I think MB2 has the right idea - be glad you were smart enough to buy with a warranty, mutter a curse while typing up an 'approach with caution' post and move on.
john
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
I don't know why people are commenting on how others spend their money.....it's not relevant here.
I think the seller should refund the money....or at least pay something to make up for the inconvenience and time without the watch, if the current owner has to send it himself.
If I bought a 2nd hand BMW M3 and all the mileage was right, the paintwork as described and the interior was immaculate, I wouldn't expect to have to take it back to BMW (even under warranty) because the owner had failed to mention/notice it was not reaching it's top speed or it's mpg was halved. It is not working as expected and not really fit for sale.
Even the bay or PP would back me on this and the seller failure to notice this would not be my fault.
I agree, especially after 5 days and a positive hero post.
I agree with this. +10s a day should be considered a fault on a quartz watch of any appreciable value, and certainly a Breitling with a "super quartz" movement. Definitely worth a mention in H&V to my mind, even if the emotionally charged term "villain" might be avoided.
The trouble with H&V is that it seems to encourage people being categorised in one of two extremes. I think it should be thought of as a feedback forum, not a place to nominate someone as a "hero", or a "villain".
You're not a proper WIS. That's the message I'm getting here.
Back on topic - any modern quartz, let alone a HEQ, that loses or gains 10s a day is broken. I can imagine the seller not spotting it before he sold it, and the buyer not expecting to have to check, but once he did check, the seller should have refunded. Even after a hero post. The fact that he can not or will not is reason enough for a villain post, I'd have said. But the buyer is lucky to have the warranty to fall back on in this case.
Its a SQ...if its been sold performing as it does then the seller has sold a faulty watch,in which case he should,imho,take the watch back & issue a refund and send it back under warranty himself.
If,however,the watch was keeping time as it should when sold and has subsequently gone tits up then it's just bad luck...the buyer is lucky enough that he can still return it under warranty.
The only people who know the answers are the seller & buyer-everything else is conjecture.
Not good form in my opinion, lying by omission, If that were me I would have sent the watch back to Breitling before putting on sales corner, or advised that it needed to go back and priced accordingly. Would definitely have got a villan post, as others have said though the problem is that you hero posted first and the money is spent. Think you will have to take it on the chin and send it back yourself. At least its in warranty and once it comes back you will have peace of mind
I know I never check accuracy on my watches, not even if I plan on selling them unless explicitly asked by the buyer...so I can imagine that this was not done on purpose. The 'money spent' however is poor form imho...and not a first for this seller...
The pertinent point for me is that the OP specifically asked the seller whether there were any issues with the watch that were unmentioned in the ad.
With a supposedly super-accurate watch, I think one should be able to assume that the timekeeping has been checked and is OK, unless stated otherwise.
So it should really be down to the seller to sort it out.
What a simplistic view
Don't really agree with this. Sure SC isn't a retail outlet, but its meant to be a community resource where things are described honestly and we look out for each other. The seller has failed in this, IMO. That's also why we have H&V and if I was the OP I'd be posting a villain post
Btw to everyone who says that they don't notice timing, a SQ should be 10 seconds off per year not per day. I find it hard to think one wouldn't notice. It's like an auto losing five minutes a day.
As it is a thermo-compensated superquartz any issues with timekeeping are immediately apparent. It's not like an mechanical where you have to make an effort to keep it wound. Put it down one week and get back to it next week it should still be extremely close to the correct time.
Has the seller stated it was accurate and he was the original owner? If they have not it would suggest to me that they have not had it long and didn't use the watch.
While I might not post it as a villain I would give feedback on what has happened in H&V.
Thanks for that, I honestly didn't know that :thumbright:
here's some further info I googled ....hope it's all true.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Caliber: ETA 251.232 (ETA Thermoline)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal (digital count adjustment method with thermistor)
Annual accuracy: ±10 seconds
Rate adjustable?: yes, by the watchmaker during service
Watches that use this movement:
Breitling Aeromarine Colt Chronograph SQ (Breitling caliber B73)
Breitling Aeromarine Avenger M1 Chronograph SQ (Breitling caliber B73)
Breitling Professional Emergency Mission SQ (Breitling caliber B73)
Note: Breitling has designated all its thermocompensated watches as 'SuperQuartz' (SQ) since2002. For reasons that are unclear, Breitling specifies its SuperQuartz movements to 15 seconds per year, even though we have no evidence that they differ from the ETA Thermoline models which are specified to 10 seconds per year.
Sources of information: ETA sales literature, Breitling sales literature
Caliber: ETA 956.152 (ETA Thermoline)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal (digital count adjustment method with thermistor)
Annual accuracy: ±10 seconds
Rate adjustable?: yes, by the watchmaker during service
Watches that use this movement:
Breitling Windrider Callistino (Breitling caliber B72)
See note for ETA caliber 251.232.
Sources of information: ETA sales literature, Breitling sales literature
Caliber: ETA 955.652 (ETA Thermoline)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal (digital count adjustment method with thermistor)
Annual accuracy: ±10 seconds
Rate adjustable?: yes, by the watchmaker during service
Watches that use this movement:
Breitling Aeromarine Colt Quartz SQ (Breitling caliber B74)
See note for ETA caliber 251.232.
Sources of information: ETA sales literature, Breitling sales literature
Caliber: ETA 956.652 (ETA Thermoline)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal (digital count adjustment method with thermistor)
Annual accuracy: ±10 seconds
Rate adjustable?: yes, by the watchmaker during service
Watches that use this movement:
Breitling Aeromarine Colt Oceane SQ (Breitling claiber B77)
See note for ETA caliber 251.232.
Sources of information: ETA sales literature, Breitling sales literature
Caliber: ETA 955.452 (ETA Thermoline)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal (digital count adjustment method with thermistor)
Annual accuracy: ±10 seconds
Rate adjustable?: yes, by the watchmaker during service
Watches that use this movement:
none known
Source of information: ETA sales literature
Caliber ETA 988.352 (ETA Thermoline)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal (digital count adjustment method with thermistor)
Annual accuracy: ±10 seconds
Rate adjustable?: yes, by the watchmaker during service
Watches that use this movement:
Breitling Professional Emergency SQ (Breitling caliber B76)
Breitling Professional Aerospace SQ (Breitling caliber B75)
See note for ETA caliber 251.232.
Sources of information: ETA sales literature, Breitling sales literature
Caliber ETA E20.341 (ETA Thermoline)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal (digital count adjustment method with thermistor)
Annual accuracy: ±10 seconds
Rate adjustable?: yes, by the watchmaker during service
Watches that use this movement:
Breitling Professional B1 SQ (Breitling caliber B78)
See note for ETA caliber 251.232.
Sources of information: ETA sales literature, Breitling sales literature
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f39/superq ... 42026.html
People should be set straight here... a Breitling SQ running +10/day = Totally F*#@ed!
I've bought two watches from SC in the last three years and was delighted with both purchases. Reading many of the comments here I really hadn't realised I'd entered such a lottery. The item for sale is incidental and it's the integrity (or lack thereof) of the seller that is paramount... I'd always thought there was something of a "gentleman's way" over on SC, but I was obviously more naive than I'd imagined.
At least now I've a long mental note of people best avoided if I'm ever tempted to try my luck again.
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