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Thread: New arrival (Chinese)

  1. #1
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    New arrival (Chinese)

    I know this will properbly not be for everyon as chinese movements and watches tend to be frowned upon.
    Got this little fellow today, and i quite like it.


    Sea-Gull M177S by Tommy Fjordbøge, on Flickr

    Yes it's cant compare to higher quality swiss/german etc. watches but then it's not meant to at that price (£75 including delivery from Singapore).

    It's a Sea-Gull M177S tech specs are as follows (for those interrested):
    Quick Technical Specs:
    Movement: ST16 (ST1612-3 to be exact) (handwinding & hacking automatic)
    Width: 40mm (not including crown)
    Width: 43mm (including crown)
    Lug Width: 20mm
    Lug to Lug: 47mm

    It's has some things that might put people of, mine has a couple if tiny black dust particles on the inside of the crystal. Also the winding mechanism is a little noisy/ratty (a little more than a Miyota 8215), so that will certainly put of some people (tho i hardly hear it when it's on the wrist - or maybe thats cause the kids are making a lot of noise :lol: ). Also the movement itself could have been decorated when they had to include a sea through back.


    Sea-Gull M177S by Tommy Fjordbøge, on Flickr

    All in all i think it was £75 well spent, i'm most likely only going to use this when i'm wearing a suit/shirt and that doesnt happen often (so i didnt want to pay alot of money for a dress watch).

    One final picture before i stop ranting :wink:


    Sea-Gull M177S by Tommy Fjordbøge, on Flickr

    Hope you liked the watch, and if not i atleast hope you can enjoy the pictures :wink:

  2. #2
    Master
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Hej Hamsteren,

    Certainly nice shots. The watch looks good, too--pity it's a bit oversize (for me)--a few mm's less and the date instead of the '3' and I'd be sorely tempted.

    How's the timekeeping?

  3. #3

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsteren
    I know this will probably not be for everyone as chinese movements and watches tend to be frowned upon.
    I for one am very quick to frown upon Chinese crap like Alpha, Parnis and the rest of the mushroom brands, but that does not have to do anything with it being chinese, more with being crap. Sea-Gull does at least good quality, lots of people say they are actually excellent - I'll have an opinion when I have seen it myself - but this brand is pretty non-controversial. They are a bona fide manufacturer, no problem with that.

    It looks very good. I would have preferred no numerals and the hands (especially the minute hand) should be a bit longer, the bezel might have been thinner as well, but on the whole, very nice. I've been thinking about getting a Sea Gull for a while (if only to have a Chinese watch as well), but I have not yet found one that I like enough.

  4. #4
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by SplitSecond
    Hej Hamsteren,

    Certainly nice shots. The watch looks good, too--pity it's a bit oversize (for me)--a few mm's less and the date instead of the '3' and I'd be sorely tempted.

    How's the timekeeping?
    Thanks :)
    Dont know about the timekeeping yet as i have only had it for a couple of hours, but i will give an update later this week when it has had some wristtime.

    Quote Originally Posted by horrovac
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsteren
    I know this will probably not be for everyone as chinese movements and watches tend to be frowned upon.
    I for one am very quick to frown upon Chinese crap like Alpha, Parnis and the rest of the mushroom brands, but that does not have to do anything with it being chinese, more with being crap. Sea-Gull does at least good quality, lots of people say they are actually excellent - I'll have an opinion when I have seen it myself - but this brand is pretty non-controversial. They are a bona fide manufacturer, no problem with that.

    It looks very good. I would have preferred no numerals and the hands (especially the minute hand) should be a bit longer, the bezel might have been thinner as well, but on the whole, very nice. I've been thinking about getting a Sea Gull for a while (if only to have a Chinese watch as well), but I have not yet found one that I like enough.
    True it's mostly the copies people frown over, but at least other places alot of watch snobbery is going on.

    The only thing with the dial i would have prefered is actually no date as it would have been a cleaner look, the hands yes the minute could have been a bit longer and touched the markers but it's nothing that annoys me ;)

  5. #5

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Nice looking watch for 75 quid :o

  6. #6
    Master EdRonax's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Lets face it you can't get a lot for £75 these days but that's a really nice looking piece and a steal.

  7. #7
    Master
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    I like that. The dial reminds me of one of my Seikos:



    So do the hands, and the case, come to think of it.

  8. #8

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    That's a nice looking watch.

    And an in-house movement, as well. For £75. Rude not to.


    Regards

    Ian
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  9. #9

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    :D I like it and for £75 its very good value, lets face it if you want fully in house for this kind of money your really looking at a Seiko 5 as the alternative and the cheapest ones of those are pretty comparable in quality terms.

  10. #10

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover
    I like that. The dial reminds me of one of my Seikos:

    So do the hands, and the case, come to think of it.
    Oh, yes. Quite an uncanny resemblance. What a coincidence!

  11. #11

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    That looks very nicely finished from the pics. Nice, clean design too.

  12. #12
    Master
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Lovely and at £75 a bargin.
    Where did you get it from?

  13. #13

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Great looking watch, and Sea-Gull know how to do quality. Very hard to beat for the price IMO.

  14. #14
    Master simonsev's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Nothing wrong with a good value Chinese piece for a little fun and no stress wear...............mine say Hi.. :D


  15. #15
    Master Kutusov's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Lovely watch! That silver dial and the blue second hand really work well together. Unlike SplitSecond, my only problem is that it's relatively small... :roll: once you go with bigger watches is really hard to come back...

    Oh, and BTW, great pics!!!

  16. #16
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Congrats, that Seagull looks solid.

    Great ST16 movement, very clean, simple and modern elegant piece. 8)

    Enjoy that one.

    cheers,
    Dave

  17. #17
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    .
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Chinese movement in a Chinese watch.

    The Chinese have been excellent at capturing the bottom end of the market and recently we have seen some high end pieces from Sea Gull. I can't wait for them to start hiting the middle ground with some juicy movements.

    Enjoy your watch.

    john
    Time travel class: Starts 1915

  18. #18
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by bloater
    Lovely and at £75 a bargin.
    Where did you get it from?
    Got it from the bay (where else for Chinese stuff :wink: )

    Thanks all for the positive comments about the pictures :)

    Ohh and it looks so far to be keeping good time +3s over 24h.
    Now i just need a better strap for it, cause the one it comes with is a pos ;)

  19. #19
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Tommy,that watch looks great,i've just ordered one from a geezer in HK on the bay;Apparently the one in your pic is rare as it has the Dornbluth type second hand with the circular "end"?Hope mine arrives the same!
    Can't go wrong for 75 quid delivered?

  20. #20
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Just looked for it on ebay... mate, that seller should buy your photos!! Looks a bit rubbish on his photos! You can't eve tell the dial is silver...

  21. #21

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Been said before but nice pics :D

    I need some props for my watch photo shoot

  22. #22
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by bparker170
    Tommy,that watch looks great,i've just ordered one from a geezer in HK on the bay;Apparently the one in your pic is rare as it has the Dornbluth type second hand with the circular "end"?Hope mine arrives the same!
    Can't go wrong for 75 quid delivered?
    Ohh didnt know about the seconds hand, thanks for the info :)
    No 75 quid doesnt get you much, and it's a nice little watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kutusov
    Just looked for it on ebay... mate, that seller should buy your photos!! Looks a bit rubbish on his photos! You can't eve tell the dial is silver...
    Thanks ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by vinstink
    Been said before but nice pics :D

    I need some props for my watch photo shoot
    Thanks, yeah props really do alot for the pictures imo, tried taking some pictures of another watch without props and it just looked boring.

  23. #23
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by horrovac
    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover
    I like that. The dial reminds me of one of my Seikos:

    So do the hands, and the case, come to think of it.
    Oh, yes. Quite an uncanny resemblance. What a coincidence!
    In fact I believe that both Seiko and Sea-Gull have been 'inspired' by the JLC Master Control, especially in the area of the numerals and hour markers: http://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/eu/en/w ... er-control


  24. #24
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    I ordered mine a couple of weeks ago, hasnt arrived yet!
    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184539

  25. #25
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by gee-whizz
    I ordered mine a couple of weeks ago, hasnt arrived yet!
    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184539
    blimey i just ordered from the same chap,2 weeks is a long time for the usually excellent HK postal service,oh well it's covered by ebay i guess........

  26. #26
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by bparker170
    Quote Originally Posted by gee-whizz
    I ordered mine a couple of weeks ago, hasnt arrived yet!
    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184539
    blimey i just ordered from the same chap,2 weeks is a long time for the usually excellent HK postal service,oh well it's covered by ebay i guess........

    Im not sure if it will be delivered by Royal Mail or by a courier?
    Im sure it will be here soon, It didnt leave Singapore until the 23rd.

  27. #27
    Grand Master mr1973's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    As you know, I have the very same watch. Timekeeping so far was... well, what can I say. It's SPOT ON. My watchmaker was more than amazed too.
    I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

  28. #28
    Master
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    [quote=gee-whizz]
    Quote Originally Posted by bparker170
    Quote Originally Posted by gee-whizz":2cn0oi3t]I ordered mine a couple of weeks ago, hasnt arrived yet!
    [url="http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184539
    viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184539[/url]
    blimey i just ordered from the same chap,2 weeks is a long time for the usually excellent HK postal service,oh well it's covered by ebay i guess........

    Im not sure if it will be delivered by Royal Mail or by a courier?
    Im sure it will be here soon, It didnt leave Singapore until the 23rd.[/quote:2cn0oi3t]
    If he's sent it HK post it will come via Royal Mail,HK post is excellent.Usually escape customs too (fingers crossed)

  29. #29
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by bparker170
    If he's sent it HK post it will come via Royal Mail,HK post is excellent.Usually escape customs too (fingers crossed)
    Yeap, I can confirm that! I was very surprised the other day when receiving a package from HK but that arrived as RM. Portuguese customs aren't letting anything through nowadays, even if it means that a package is going to get stuck in their warehouse for a month. The one that came from HK, probably because it had a RM code and stamp, didn't even went through customs check.

  30. #30
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Same guy i ordered from, took 10 days from i posting it to delivery in Sweden (and the swedish postal service aint famous for being speedy).

  31. #31

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by horrovac
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsteren
    I know this will probably not be for everyone as chinese movements and watches tend to be frowned upon.
    I for one am very quick to frown upon Chinese crap like Alpha, Parnis and the rest of the mushroom brands, but that does not have to do anything with it being chinese, more with being crap. Sea-Gull does at least good quality, lots of people say they are actually excellent
    Would it change your opinion if you discovered Parnis use Seagull movements?

    Mine specifically has the ST25.

  32. #32
    Master Kutusov's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by schmy
    Would it change your opinion if you discovered Parnis use Seagull movements?

    Mine specifically has the ST25.
    I've owned several Parnis and Alphas. Regarding the Parnis, I'm not sure if what they have are Seagull movements. I think they call them that because they are Seagull clones. Everything is the same expect the way they are put together. I had an Alpha with an ST19 and that was clearly better built than any Parnis I've owned.

    I can't be sure of this, but seems to me that Seagull doesn't source their movements completely assembled to Parnis like ETA does (or did) to other brands. I'm looking at the movement on the OP's Seagull and the ones on Parnis don't have those decorative strips (mine didn't anyway).

    Some sellers even go to the point of describing Parnis movements as "Asian Unitas" or "Asian Seagull something equivalent". I really don't know... does anyone here knows?

  33. #33

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by schmy
    Quote Originally Posted by horrovac
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsteren
    I know this will probably not be for everyone as chinese movements and watches tend to be frowned upon.
    I for one am very quick to frown upon Chinese crap like Alpha, Parnis and the rest of the mushroom brands, but that does not have to do anything with it being chinese, more with being crap. Sea-Gull does at least good quality, lots of people say they are actually excellent
    Would it change your opinion if you discovered Parnis use Seagull movements?

    Mine specifically has the ST25.
    No. It would not, as I know that already.

    At least some of movements used are from Sea-Gull. I don't know the specifics for Parnis but it does not seem to be very different from Alpha. When buying an Alpha you never know what you'll get, if you are lucky it will be a Sea-Gull movement - relatively lucky, since they are using the rejects or at least the cheapest they can get. Basically, they're picking the movements out of Sea-Gull's wheelie bin. A watchmaker has posted photos and comments on his dissection of one of those on watchuseek, and it was indeed very poor. Completely dry, incredibly dirty, the movement plates were rough and scratched, all screws were damaged when assembling, and several of the plates were bent. It was enough to make my stomach turn (though incredibly he somehow managed to conclude that it was not that bad).

    I have lurked on the chinese mechanical forum there for quite a while, trying to understand why the hell would someone bother. So I know the attrition rate, which is appalling, but apparently it made no difference at all. "Got one, great watch, but unfortunately dead on arrival. Just ordered another one." Or you'd hear praises like "great watches, I have ten, and 6 are still working." They can be almost counted on to fail after about a year, if they arrive at working condition at all.

    So essentially, the Sea-Gull movement you get in a mushroom brand isn't anywhere near as good as the one in a Sea-Gull watch. And even those in the lower-priced Sea-Gull watches are not really made to last (so I read) as they are only partially oiled.

    They make movements without reproach (Eddie uses one in PRS-5) - but those are of higher grade. I would have no problem whatsoever using one of those. Cheaper Sea-Gulls I'd probably immediately take apart, clean and lubricate properly - but they will work reasonably good for several years (after which they'll be worn out and require replacement parts).

  34. #34
    Master Kutusov's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by horrovac
    They make movements without reproach (Eddie uses one in PRS-5) - but those are of higher grade. I would have no problem whatsoever using one of those.
    That answers my question.... (the part I haven't quoted)

    Regarding the one on the PRS-5, that's an ST-19 and from what I've gathered that's a straight Swiss Venus 175 movement built with Swiss tooling, so it's the real deal and not even a clone (at least initially it wasn't... ). The Chinese bought that one when Venus upgraded that caliber and they were in need of a chrono fro the Air Force (the 1963 model). They have developed several variants since then with added complications, so it's a bit like the Russian 3133 history, although the 3133 is an upgraded version of the Valjoux 7734.

    There are two very interesting topics on these movements on the Classic Posts section of the Forum:

    3133 Vs Valjoux 7734: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=64167

    and the ST-19 on the PRS-5: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=64530

  35. #35

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kutusov
    ...seems to me that Seagull doesn't source their movements completely assembled to Parnis like ETA does (or did) to other brands....I really don't know... does anyone here knows?
    I have it on quite good authority that Sea-Gull does sell movements (and parts, and ebauches) to a wide range of Chinese (and European) manufacturers but reserves its best movements for itself and for customers willing to pay the premium required for better quality control.

    My general opinion is that Chinese movement design is actually very good, but assembly and casing conditions and quality control vary hugely. Tianjin Sea-Gull assembly is quite good and likely to vastly improve as operations have been moved to a brand new---huge and very modern---facility.

    ...and I love the M177 and it's more recent brother (upgraded: sapphire crystal/ST21 movement), the almost identical 819.351, seen here (photo borrowed from US Sea-Gull):


  36. #36
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaTime
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutusov
    ...and I love the M177 and it's more recent brother (upgraded: sapphire crystal/ST21 movement), the almost identical 819.351, seen here (photo borrowed from US Sea-Gull):
    I thought about getting that one, but couldnt find it on ebay. So it had to be the M177S instead ;)

    Update on the timekeeping, after 48H it's +5s i would say thats pretty good.

  37. #37
    Master Kutusov's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaTime
    I have it on quite good authority that Sea-Gull does sell movements (and parts, and ebauches) to a wide range of Chinese (and European) manufacturers but reserves its best movements for itself and for customers willing to pay the premium required for better quality control.

    My general opinion is that Chinese movement design is actually very good, but assembly and casing conditions and quality control vary hugely. Tianjin Sea-Gull assembly is quite good and likely to vastly improve as operations have been moved to a brand new---huge and very modern---facility.
    Thanks for that! I knew that Parnis couldn't possibly be using full fledged Seagull movements. The ones I had weren't all that good... On the other hand (maybe it was luck), the three Alphas I had were pretty good but then again only one had a movement that I'm not sure what it was (an LV). The other two used a Shanghai B and the ST-19.

  38. #38

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)



    The only Chinese piece in my collection...£3 in a Hong Kong market.

    And yes..the hand does wave!!

  39. #39
    Master
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Well mine arrived today :)
    Well packaged, loads of bubble wrap.
    This is one hell of a great watch for the money! Even the strap feels better than some I have paid £20 for.
    Very happy with this one, at least I have a dress style watch in the collection now.
    Took just under 3 weeks to get here.

  40. #40
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    Re: Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by gee-whizz
    Well mine arrived today :)
    Well packaged, loads of bubble wrap.
    This is one hell of a great watch for the money! Even the strap feels better than some I have paid £20 for.
    Very happy with this one, at least I have a dress style watch in the collection now.
    Took just under 3 weeks to get here.
    Grats :)
    Yeah its alt of watch for the money, but i really think the strap is crap, but then again the obly strap experience i have are toshi's ;)

  41. #41
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    Re: Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsteren
    Quote Originally Posted by gee-whizz
    Well mine arrived today :)
    Well packaged, loads of bubble wrap.
    This is one hell of a great watch for the money! Even the strap feels better than some I have paid £20 for.
    Very happy with this one, at least I have a dress style watch in the collection now.
    Took just under 3 weeks to get here.
    Grats :)
    Yeah its alt of watch for the money, but i really think the strap is crap, but then again the obly strap experience i have are toshi's ;)

    Toshi's are great!
    I have sold all of mine :(
    I think they might be too thick for this style of watch?
    I may just get a Hirsch or perhaps one of Eddies.
    http://www.timefactors.com/images/ostrich3.jpg

  42. #42
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    Re: Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by gee-whizz
    Toshi's are great!
    I have sold all of mine :(
    I think they might be too thick for this style of watch?
    I may just get a Hirsch or perhaps one of Eddies.
    http://www.timefactors.com/images/ostrich3.jpg
    Yeah i've been to find a nice real croc strap for the watch.
    Toshi's are waaay to thick.

  43. #43

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    75 quid on a fairly decent-looking, dressy watch, with automatic movement?! To put it into perspective, take a look at the quartz offerings at the 75 quid mark down at h samuels and argos - absolute tat. That seagull isnt my cup of tea but it represents fantastic value. Its a lot of watch for the money if thats what youre after.

  44. #44

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbongo
    75 quid on a fairly decent-looking, dressy watch, with automatic movement?! To put it into perspective, take a look at the quartz offerings at the 75 quid mark down at h samuels and argos - absolute tat. That seagull isnt my cup of tea but it represents fantastic value. Its a lot of watch for the money if thats what youre after.
    Looks good, yes, of course a better value than those quartz watches, but I'm not yet convinced that it can compete with a Seiko 5.

  45. #45

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    It was reading the good reviews of the ST-19 movement that made me want the 1963 chrono remake. It would be no good having a really beautiful chrono if it had an unreliable movement. It is the next watch on my wish list!




    My own watches
    Kemmner Marine,Unitas 6498-1
    Shturmanskie LE "Flight"chrono remake
    Bulova 1956 Art-Deco rectangular, 17 jewel
    1970s Raketa"Polar Star",16jewels -incoming

  46. #46
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon
    In fact I believe that both Seiko and Sea-Gull have been 'inspired' by the JLC Master Control, especially in the area of the numerals and hour markers: http://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/eu/en/w ... er-control

    Was that model around in 1990 or so? If so, I think you're probably right.

  47. #47
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    received mine today,nice box and manual,and the watch itself is superb value,looking forward to wearing it for work this week and logging the timekeeping,put it on a new stowa calf leather black strap and as a package will make a more than decent office beater.

  48. #48
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    3 second gain in 3 days - bloody hell!My 6R15 Seikos run at +15 seconds a day!

  49. #49
    Master Kutusov's Avatar
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    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    Quote Originally Posted by bparker170
    3 second gain in 3 days - bloody hell!My 6R15 Seikos run at +15 seconds a day!
    1 second a day... :shock: Many Swiss watches aren't able to do that straight out of the box...

  50. #50

    Re: New arrival (Chinese)

    I'm thinking of ordering the Sea-Gull M171S from this guy. The price seems good.
    I'd think I'd rather a M199S, but can't find one at a decent price anywhere.
    Nice to hear you're happy with your gull from this seller :thumbup:

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