Reply With QuoteWell . I,d quite happily let women carry them around. They deserve the right to protect themselves from horrible b@stards
Hi Folks!
My girlfriend, who is a student in Leeds, has just moved into a new house for a year with 4 other students.
It's quite a downgrade from her pervious accommodation and is in one of Leeds's notoriously bad areas.
She's only been there 4 days and already has had a lot of men on the street make some rather horrible comments at her and been followed once.
The house was broken into twice last year, although bars have been put up since.
In the last month or 2 theres been a few stabbings and rapes in the close proximity....so needless to say, I'm a bit worried and so is she.
And to top it off, she is a student pediatric nurse, and the last rape that took place was to one of her course mates, because the bloke thought that it meant the same thing as a peodophile and so she deserved it.... :shock:
Anyway, enough of that, what I really want to know is.....
What kind of self defence is the best thing she could have? I think she likes the idea of having something to try and protect herself, even if its a rape alarm.
But, me being protective, got thinking about tasers and the like.
How do these fit in with the law? Are they illegal to carry and use end of?
If not, then does anyone know what kind of thing would be a decent investment. Obviously, I would hope it would never be used, but if it had to take down your average Jeremy Kyle guest, would it do so effectively?
Anyway, if anyone has any knowledge on this, mainly the legality of them, that would be great.
Cheers!
Well . I,d quite happily let women carry them around. They deserve the right to protect themselves from horrible b@stards
illegal to carry stun guns or tasers and even mace in the UK.
She would be better placed enrolling on a self defence course designed for women that will show her ways to avoid attack, which should be anyones first line of defence and secondly how to get away if ever grabbed.
Either way it sounds like she could do with moving if possible! I'd also be very worried about the bars keeping people out... they also keep people in during a fire :shock:
Not much help but just my thoughts
Paul
Seriously! If the immediate area is that bad then the most sensible option is to look for alterative accomodation. Sorry that it's stating the 'bloody obvious' but if it really is 'unsafe' then it's a far better idea than considering tasers and the like (which are illegal- plenty of info available on the net)
FWIW 'self-defence' has many facets: avoiding placing yourself in a potentially dangerous position/situation is high on the list.
jeff
Absolutely and completely illegal, sorry. But then so is carrying almost anything with the express intention of using it against another person. If she has a foot-long screwdriver in her purse with no real reason, the police would be entitled to ask her why she has it.
There is some discussion about the use of 'marking' products at the moment such as Stoppa Red (http://www.stoppashop.co.uk/). The concensus is that if they are non toxic and used for 'marking and identifying' assailants then they are kosher. Not sure how effective a deterrent they are but I would consider looking into it for a loved one.
The earlier advice is good, self-defence training. Best of all is to not be in places where trouble is - raise your alert level and observation when in shady places. Sadly that's not easy if you are (for example) coming home from clubs battered at daft o clock in the morning.
Thanks for the feedback already!
Ok, well that idea is scrapped straight away then which is fine. I'll look into the Stoppa Red stuff, thats good advice thank you.
I also read that carrying a small perfume or deodorant is a good idea as a pepper spray alternative.
Paul - good point about the bars, I hadn't thought of that.
Jeff - Yeah I agree completely with that, I'm trying to persuade her to look elsewhere, but it's definitely me thats more concerned with the safety aspect than she is. :?
I would be surpised if the landlord has declared the addition of bars to his insurers or if he has then he hasn't notified them that the property is student accommodation / being let. Most insurers whilst always looking for added security aren't so naieve as to not consider the health and safety of the occupants v's keeping thieves out of the premises.Originally Posted by will852
Surprised your other half isn't more concerned, is she a mature student or of normal student age i.e. late teens early twenties? If the latter that could well explain why she doesn't see the risk / danger.
Paul.
The latter indeed. 21 and, well, a bit ditsy.Surprised your other half isn't more concerned, is she a mature student or of normal student age i.e. late teens early twenties? If the latter that could well explain why she doesn't see the risk / danger.
Paul.
A cheap bottle of spray perfume would do the trick
Paul has highlighted a very important point about the bars on the windows and this would be something I would look at ASAP. If the accomodation is kosher i.e. HMO or similar status then bars across windows would be a no-no unless they are very easily removable which is unlikely.
The local councils that police the HMO schemes are red hot on fire safety compliance Things like fire door locks with thumbturns on the inside (or panic bolts) so they can be unlocked without a key by anyone inside, fire and smoke alarms with the approriate control panel, and sufficient fire extinguishers should be all present as should clear unobstructed access to fire exits.
If the property lacks these safeguards then it would strongly suggest that it is not registered as a HMO (and not subject to inspection etc). Not all rental properties will fall under HMO regs but even those that don't should have most of the above safety measures in place. I certainly wouldn't want any of my loved ones staying somewhere that didn't have them.
regards
jeff
Ralgex, Deep Heat and similar products recommend you don't get them near your eyes or sensitive skin.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I would recommend three things,all of which have been mentioned:
(i) a serious talk with her in a non-ditsy moment to highlight the dangers
(ii) self defense lessons
(iii) move somewhere else if possible
Question-illegal to carry mace but what if you filled a little squirty atomiser type affair with a water/pure capsacain extract mix? It would do the job and you could always say it was a condiment :D
Already said, definitely illegal. Classed as firearms and unless you want her surrounded by the ARVs then probably best not to give her one! :lol:
Get her to a karate lesson. ;)
Doesn't Deep Heat come in a small spray can these days? That, or a small can of hair spray can be carried 'with good reason' and given an alternate use if necessary.
I'm sure the woman's officer at uni could point her in the direction of/organise a 'safety' course, or something similar. The last thing you need in a hairy situation is to try to remember that really complicated Martial Arts move you were shown in that 2-hour course you had... A good woman's self defense course should focus more on your awareness of any potential situation and how to avoid making the obvious mistakes rather than bombarding you with a load of techniques to combat your attacker.
That said, there are 3 Jitsu Foundation clubs in Leeds; two of them attached to the universities. They may even have someone who has taught women's safety courses. Your GF would need to stick at Jitsu for quite a while, though, if she wants to 'look after herself'.
Hope this helps,
Drew
Where in Leeds is the flat?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Single bloke alert :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol: :D :D
______
Jim.
Hopefully he's asking in a professional capacity :wink:Single bloke alert :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol: :D :D
Martial arts classes are all very well, but unless she enjoys doing it, better to focus on awareness.
The Deep Heat/Ralgex idea is a good one, 'good cause' would be easy to come up with.
:lol:Single bloke alert :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol: :D :D
Its the Woodhouse area. The "wrong side" of Hyde Park. :D
Now I know in American Gang culture, if you kill someone, you are supposed to throw your shoes over the telephone wire above the street. I Hope it's not the same here because there are 6 pairs above her road...and they're all blue. :? :roll:
Thanks for all the helpful replies!
She used to do a bit of Kickboxing, which she was quite good at, So I'll see if I can persuade her to brush up on her skills!
For my own peace of mind though I'm going to have a look for something to go in her bag just in case.
Deep Heat is a good suggestion, I'll see if its still available in the little spray cans.
If it was my missus, after hearing those stories you wrote in your original post, I'd be helping her to move out of there asap. Get real....muscle injury rub wont stop a potentially high bloke carrying out a mugging or worse.
Get her to give this lot a visit http://www.jitsufoundation.org/jujitsu. ... Jitsu_Club
I did this style for a couple of years. Being mostly based at Universities they are very female friendly and self defence oriented. The basics start with breaking/escaping from grabs and strangles.
You are never unarmed if you have a planet to throw people against ;)
Also she should move ASAP
That is also illegal I'm afraid. Believe it or not that would fall under Section 5 (1) (b)of the Firearms Act 1968 which makes it an offence to own any weapon that discharges any noxious gas or liquid; that is after all what a 'pepper spray' is.
In many states here in the USA it is illegal to own a stun gun but many people do so. Why? I think most of us would rather pay a fine or spend a few days in jail rather than being raped or killed. If someone attempts, say, a rape, the potential victim has a fighting chance if she has a stun. I think the difference between here and other countries is that it is easy here in the USA to get in one's car, drive a few hours to another state and purchase a stun gun. I am 100% behind them legal or not. I would rather visit my girlfriend in jail than attend her funeral.
As to the bars on the windows. They make them, at least here in the USA, to be opened from the inside of the building by a push rod that disengages a locking system. One needs to only push the rod and the bars disengage and swing outwards. Something to look into.
Quite a sobering thought.......
Agree. If I saw cause to carry a defensive weapon, I would do so, illegal or not. Getting caught would be a calculated risk, compared to other risks possibly one worth taking. One could even get away with it. The police are more or less open to reason, when you treat them in a correct and reasonable manner - don't lie to them, don't be argumentative, don't question their authority or tell them you pay their wages, treat them normally and respectfully as if you would any other stranger, and they are very likely to just let it lie - that's at least what I found. I suppose if they are dealing with a female, living in a risky environment, carrying with her an explicitly defensive item, they might well just look the other way. In fact I would favour the legislation allowing females to wear certain types of defensive weapons, even if they are generally prohibited.
I don't think I'd recommend a taser or a stun gun for such an use - they need to be used properly, which can be tricky for an untrained person in a panic situation. The first thing I would get her would be one of these manually triggered alarm devices, to be used in terrorem. And as a second level something to incapacitate the attacker long enough to make an escape. Knee in the groin, pepper spray, anything unpleasant you can throw at them.
A strong pen is another option. You can get 'tactical pens' which tend to be stronger and pointier than a normal pen. Some are very aggressive looking but others are fairly discrete, examples -
http://www.heinnie.com/Pens/Fred-Per...s/c-1-290-732/
http://www.heinnie.com/Pens/Schrade-...-290-609-4191/
http://www.heinnie.com/Pens/Schrade-...-290-609-5808/
"
We are never unarmed, we can always use something as a weapon. This article is dedicated to use common goods as a self-defense weapons.
One of the most popular ordinary things being used for self-defense is undoubtedly the simple pen. It has several advantages: absolute legality, small size, and, that is the most important, pen is usually not considered as a potential weapon by attackers, so you can carry it openly, attached to your front pocket. The simple pen looks harmless enough, but you can use it successfully as relatively powerful weapon.
As a self-defense weapon, pen can be used like a dagger or a stiletto. Use a pen to stab assailant’s body/chest/neck. If he continues with the attack, you can also use your pen to give him an eye gouge. Alternatively, you can use your pen to stab his groin as many times as you can - then escape! You can also apply pen to break body grips.
Nail file is being widely used as a women’s self-defense weapon. The defense tactics with a nail file are quite similar to those with a pen: quick stabs at an attacker’s face, eyes, neck, groin.
Umbrella – can be successfully used as a cane, striking the header and wave strokes to an assailant’s body. It allows to block enemy’s hits and edged weapon attacks. Umbrella with a handle of a bent (Ã-like) shape one may use as a tonfa.
Hair spray/ air freshener/ deodorant spray can also become self-defense weapon. Spray them in an assailant’s eyes; the aerosol’s components act as an irritants, cause short-timed enemy’s blindness and disorientation. There’re known some facts about another spray use possibility: spray aerosol on an attacker’s body or face and light by a cigarette lighter. Ordinary household spray turns into the small but harmful flame-thrower."
OT, but the above comment just brought back memories way back of using this stuff to administer treatment to the guys in the regiment-
(usually referred to as a 'Regimental Bath :twisted: ), who insisted on not washing and being smelly-and was vigorously applied to the nether regions, it had an amazing remedial effect :wink:
Andy
I don't know the law in the UK but, under German law it's illegal to carry mace, however, in the case of Women the Police tend to turn a blind eye and emphasise the fact that is only tolerated for use against wild animals. (that means near enough every male in the country then! :D ) In the case of your Girlfriend I would at least carry a can of mace with me and bother about the consequences later.
Also, with self defence, it's all good and well learning it but, it takes a long time to be able to use the learned techniques in a real situation.
Another benefit with the pen, is that you can draw all over the attacker so they will be recognised!
Wow, a lot of advice on weapons, but no real advice on just taking precautions, as with any area, there are good bits and bad bits, you just have to avoid certain scenarios, such as walking home late at night alone, taking taxi's that aren't through a large taxi firm, making sure that you avoid unlit areas, etc, etc.
You can talk about tasers, pens, knives, etc all you want, but it doesn't do much good if it takes time to get to them, or they're illegal, or if the person doesn't know how to use it properly.
The best course of action is always going to be defensive measures, just ask anyone in the vicinity, she's a uni girl, so there'll be plenty of them around that area, they'll know the score and they'll know the precautions, without getting all melodramatic and going on about tooling themselves up for a starring role in a female rambo movie :lol:
+1.
And especially the "but it doesn't do much good if it takes time to get to them" point: SWMBO's attempts at fishing something out of her handbag is the time-scale that watch-bezels were designed for. :roll:
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Well, the question was about defensive weapons. Someone has already mentioned the most reasonable course of action (live somewhere else), since that is not an option - and the precautions you are talking about are rather common sense - I find it reasonable to talk about the female rambo stuff. We're probably also naturally protective - of course it would be better to protect our companions or anyone for that matter from this happening at all, but when it does happen we want them to be able to counter the attack in an effective manner. Very, very effective. Since you're not always around to bash the bastard's head in.
If moving is not an option.
1. Don't look like a potential 'victim'.
A study showed cctv of a underground exit to a group of prisoners - they all identified the same people as potential targets!
2. Rather than sporting martial arts - complete a basic "Breakaway" self defence course designed specifically for these types of threat.
I'm not convinced of use of weapons, such as perfume sprays etc, as it requires one to have them to hand all the time, and risk spraying oneself or it being knocked from ones hand in the initial attack.
Book her on a self defence course, most local kung foo places will run one, cheap as chips and better than nothing.
Traditional hat pins are perfectly legal (and potentially lethal!) provided they are holding your hat on. Easy to access and discreet to.
She is better off, using things that can't be taken off of her and used against her. Her fists, knees, feet, head and her voice.
As others have said a martial art would be best option. Karate, kick boxing, judo, boxing, all great for keeping fit as well.
3 choices:
1) Buy her the stun gun, like Keith said better in jail for a couple of days than God knows what
2) Find her a better place to live
3) Pick her up every night so she's not alone :wink:
I don't think living in a building with bars is my interpretation of feeling warm & cozy
I am of the impression that stun guns are in the same category as "real" firearms, so that isn't an option because no doubt should it be used, the other party will cry human rights...
Moving to a better area even if it means downsizing & more commuting is the best idea as is making the current property more secure is the way forward. Investigate some form of close combat personal defence like Krav Maga.
Always carry a strong metal pen and keep a plastic biro next to it. That way if anyone asks to borrow a pen give them the cheapy. A small tin of hairspray is also a good idea as I believe it's difficult to get out of the eyes and also acts as a glue on the eyelids.
Yeah right, really agree with you about your statements.. But some countries really allowed that and some people also have that just for self defense usage.
Elbows hard to the face will do enough damage, break jaws, noses and eye sockets.
A compressed air rape alarm discharged right next to the attackers ear will deafen them.
There are some over the counter medical sprays, (not deep heat!) that have a very similar effect to pepper spray and are equally unpleasant, though I think it's Probably illegal to suggest they be used for that purpose and name them on a public forum.
The bigest challenge is actually doing these things to an attacker as most people are reluctant to cause real harm even in the face of such horrible situations.
Just picked up on this post. What a horrible dilemma for the OP's girlfriend. There is nothing worse than feeling vulnerable in an area which she will come back to every day for sanctuary. The advice about self-defence classes is spot-on. These will benefit her in many ways, not least being able to deal with a situation if, God forbid, it arises.
The advice about not going with a stun gun or taser is also spot-on. These are currently highly illegal.
As for mace- let me recount a situation my girlfriend found herself in whilst out walking with our three month old son in a public park near where we live. A scrote decided to follow her whilst wanking himself off and he seemed to get enjoyment out of being told to f**k off. Now my partner can look after herself and no doubt would have given the chap a thorough kicking but she was pushing our son in a pushchair and did not want to engage, being more concerned about getting away safely. She was understandably shook up and rang me as soon as she got home. I drove home at light speed to make sure she was okay. The police got involved and spent the afternoon and evening searching the area for the chap, to no avail. I remember feeling sick with the thought of what might have happened.
The next day, I had a word with one of the chaps at my gym and procured a can of mace, which my partner still has. I did this after discussing it carefully with my partner and we both know that it is illegal. However I am happier knowing she has a little something to help in the event of interference from the seemingly burgeoning array of undesirables in todays society.
Having said all this, I am not condoning the procurement of illegal weapons and would urge that other avenues, such as self-defence classes, moving to other areas, are thoroughly explored first.
Oh and the sneakers draped over the wires show that there are drug dealers in the area, an all too prevalent sight these days.
All the best of luck to your partner.
What a horrific tale!
All the advice I got from this thread has been really valuable.
My partner is currently back home from uni, so I haven't had to do anything as a precaution yet, but I think in a few weeks time I will invest in a small can of the "stoppared" spray.
I hope that it never has to be used, but for the times she's walking home from the hospital and feels vulnerable, I'd much rather she had that in her hand than nothing.
Thanks again for all the comments chaps.
Get a really bright strobing torch.
Had someone flash me with one by mistake (thats what he said :D ) and all I could see was a green circle for the next 10 minutes.
Woodhouse isn't nearly as bad as it's made out here. It's mostly students, and unless the OP's girlfriend is walking home alone, drunk, at 3am, she should be fine. There is a lot of petty crime there, and a lot of opportunistic break-ins (through open windows, etc.), because the students tend to have expensive electronic goods sitting in the open. I am not saying it's a great area, I wouldn't live there, but it's not particularly dangerous either. My sister-in-law used to live there, and while it was pretty grimy, she never had any safety issues (and she worked at a pub and often walked home late, etc.).
I apologize for bump an old topic...
1)The effectiveness of those cheap stun guns is that they do hurt like hell but without the arc of the spreading probes they will not have the spread to create a large arc of current so while they may cause pain your "shot placement " is going to be much more important with a stun gun. Picture shooting paper targets with a single shotgun with a bayonet vs a knife and realize the limitations of each.
2) Having both been stun-gunned and taken the ride I will say that being stunned if it is not to the neck or over the heart then dropping the bad guy is almost impossible to do. a good 4-5 second bust on each vital spot for most attackers will not so much drop the target but take the fight out of an attacker. The myth of instant drop of any electronic device is movie magic but for control, through pain compliance, the stun guns are adequate for the propose. In According to State Laws, we cannot ship any Stun Guns or Tasers
to the following states; CT, HI, IL, MA, MI, NJ, NY, RI, or WI
I have a couple of this and bought them at $11 https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-...ods/3222129011 each I gave them to my daughter who is out in college. It has good reviews and seems pretty powerful.
I don't trust her yet to deploy mace or pepper spray properly yet.. I need to spend time with her and practice !
1) In close-in quarters, pepper spray mist can affect the user as well if they did not have time to deploy the spray from a safe distance. Especially, if surprised and under duress...
2) User can scenario practice with the stun-gun over and over again and then re-charge the unit via USB port.
Advantage of *some* pepper spray is that the attacker will have colored, hard to remove dye that can be later used to identify the offender.
I guess pepper spray for long distance engagement where the victim has enough time to safely prep and aim for the shot safely and Stun gun for in-close engagement!
Last edited by Linese; 31st October 2020 at 14:15.
Get her out of there if you can. Get her a personal attack alarm, and a very compact strong military type LED torch. Both those are useful particularly at night.
If she carries anything that resembles a gun she could get herself in big trouble or even shot.
I'm curious, what would happen in your State if your daughter tasered somebody with say a heart condition and they died, or incorrectly tasered them and they died? Would she be let off if it was in self defence or would she be prosecuted?
I’d hope the op’s daughter is okay and paying off her student loan by now Rod this thread goes back to 2011...
Ooops! lol didn't notice that.
Perhaps those with a heart condition would be best following a legal occupation that wouldn't have the risk of being tasered. If not then I can't see the problem. You pays you money and takes your choice.
ook
All this talk of self defence classes is all very worthy but to put self defence in action you need to know and react without thinking about it..
Also no matter how well equipped your girlfriend is she is still looking over her shoulder every time she goes out and you will still be worried if she is okay..
Simple - just move, surely it will not cost much more and there really isn't a budget for a loved ones safety..
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