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Thread: Ginault

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agd47 View Post
    I received the blue/gold bezel yesterday and it's a well made watch and looks good. I received 40% off which I believe should be the rrp of this watch. Having had it on the wrist for two days it's running well, rotor a little noisey.

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    Cool. Post up a few photos when you can.

  2. #52
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppy View Post
    Ginault is very heavily linked to being involved in making replicas, one of the main reasons why most dont give them any notice
    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    Is there any proof of that or is it speculation?
    Looks like a bit more info has come to light linking Ginault with Tsung Chi/Thomas Caddell, maker of TC fake Rolexes

    https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=9776987

  3. #53
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    Ooh, interesting to see Chris Vail's name in there too...

  4. #54
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    I read the blog yesterday (which has now been mysteriously deleted) and it was an amazing piece of forensic detective work - directly linking a known supplier of fake watches and high quality fake Rolex parts - dials, movements, hands, etc (much lauded on the fake watch forums) with the legitimate brand of Ginault. The owner of Ginault had gone to great lengths to cover his tracks, deleting old posts and photos - even having them removed from web archive resources. Also, any mention of the link between the two activities was suppresed wherever possible - the blogger received an eternal ban from WUS.

    Chris Vail came out of the matter clean, as it appears the person in question used fake names (and addresses) on company registration documents, including Vail's.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Looks like a bit more info has come to light linking Ginault with Tsung Chi/Thomas Caddell, maker of TC fake Rolexes

    https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=9776987
    Thanks and I had pretty much concluded it was one and the same guy myself. I'll keep looking back to see if the link is working again.

  6. #56
    Master Glen Goyne's Avatar
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    Shame that blog is deleted? Anywhere this can still be read?


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  7. #57
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    There is also a long discussion on WUS...

  8. #58
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    Interesting discussion here with replies from Chris Vail:

    ē https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/com...ing_tsung_chi/

  9. #59
    Craftsman jimmbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    There is also a long discussion on WUS...

    Well there was. They keep deleting everything. Unless you have a link to something different?

    WUS (at least some of the owners/mods) is sketchy as hell.

  10. #60
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    I think someone on TRF has screenshots.
    Somebody will have.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    Interesting discussion here with replies from Chris Vail:

    ē https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/com...ing_tsung_chi/


    I must be getting old, reddit just makes my brain ache trying to follow the threads.

  12. #62
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    Darn it.

    Another watch brand I own instantly devalued. It'll have to go in the box with my Kobold, my McManus and that Mini I bought from Bob Long of Bungay, Norfolk.

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  13. #63
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    Darn it.

    Another watch brand I own instantly devalued. It'll have to go in the box with my Kobold, my McManus and that Mini I bought from Bob Long of Bungay, Norfolk.
    Do you have any paintings by that nice Aussie guy with the wobble board?

  14. #64
    Craftsman jimmbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    I think someone on TRF has screenshots.
    Somebody will have.
    The link has been posted over there. I can pop it here unless it's going to cause ructions?

  15. #65

  16. #66
    Craftsman jimmbob's Avatar
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    He’s re hosted it too.

    Lots of scummy practices to be read about in there!

    https://lexic.co/deepdweller/exposin...thomas-caddell
    Last edited by jimmbob; 4th July 2019 at 21:26.

  17. #67
    Master mrwozza70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmbob View Post
    Heís re hosted it too.
    Lots of scummy practices in there!

    https://lexic.co/deepdweller/exposin...thomas-caddell
    Scummy practices by who... Deepdweller?

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  18. #68
    Craftsman jimmbob's Avatar
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    No by Charlie G/TC.

  19. #69
    Master Lampoc's Avatar
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    That was quite an enlightening read! It'll certainly be interesting to see if there is any substance to the Watchuseek moderator links over the coming days/weeks.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampoc View Post
    That was quite an enlightening read! It'll certainly be interesting to see if there is any substance to the Watchuseek moderator links over the coming days/weeks.
    He has categorically denied any links and says it has nothing to do with him. His replies are in the Reddit post.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmbob View Post
    Heís re hosted it too.

    Lots of scummy practices to be read about in there!

    https://lexic.co/deepdweller/exposin...thomas-caddell
    Thanks and very interesting to read.

  22. #72
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    Ginault

    Very interesting read- I owned a Ginault up until last year, more I read about the brand though the more I felt something wasn't quite right........

    Maybe the OP can amend the Thread title to 'Ginault the truth at last' may draw a bit attention to the updates.
    Last edited by Rob153; 5th July 2019 at 11:25.

  23. #73
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob153 View Post
    Very interesting read- I owned a Ginault up until last year, more I read about the brand though the more I felt something wasn't quite right........

    Maybe the OP can amend the Thread title to 'Ginault the truth at last' may draw a bit attention to the updates.
    I also owned a Ginault until recently and assumed that the manufacturer had experience as a maker of replicas.

    Was seriously impressed with the case finishing, bezel action, indices and the dial quality was amazing. Certainly better than the Tudor Black Bay I had and the equal of a MM300.

    Reason I sold it was I found it heavy and uncomfortable ultimately, a bit too tall with the raised case back and the crown dug into my hand. I imagine a Rolex Sub would be just as irritating. Plus the hand built in America text at the bottom of the dial replaces the indices there so it's not possible to set the time during those minutes.

    Otherwise the movement and accuracy was fine and it wound smoothly.

    If they did a 1016 Explorer homage, especially with sword hands, I would definitely be interested.

  24. #74
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    I also owned a Ginault until recently and assumed that the manufacturer had experience as a maker of replicas.

    Was seriously impressed with the case finishing, bezel action, indices and the dial quality was amazing. Certainly better than the Tudor Black Bay I had and the equal of a MM300.

    Reason I sold it was I found it heavy and uncomfortable ultimately, a bit too tall with the raised case back and the crown dug into my hand. I imagine a Rolex Sub would be just as irritating. Plus the hand built in America text at the bottom of the dial replaces the indices there so it's not possible to set the time during those minutes.

    Otherwise the movement and accuracy was fine and it wound smoothly.

    If they did a 1016 Explorer homage, especially with sword hands, I would definitely be interested.

  25. #75
    It was probably the worst kept secret that the person behind Ginault was former maker of replicas. Remarkable research nonetheless which gives substance to the allegation that was bandied about before. I have two Ginaults that are exceptional quality wise. It is likely that the brand will suffer because of the revelations.
    I hope the WUS moderators if they are indeed falsely implicated will be cleared.
    What will I do with my Ginault watches? Hmmm....

  26. #76
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    Iím surprised, mine was very comfortable on the wrist- I only sold mine as I bought a Submariner- The Ďhand built in Americaí did annoy me on the dial TBF and all the questions about the movement did make me wonder about its origins.....

    I canít argue that the Ginault was a very well made watch, unfortunately with the links to the replica market canít see how the brand will continue- Be interesting to see if they comment on all the shenanigans going on.


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  27. #77
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    The chat here takes an interesting angle by using the Ginault example to expose the wider fraud in the industry of hiding the origins of movements...

    Le Affair Ginault: Fraud in the Watch Industry?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JibRfEBWNQ

  28. #78
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    Smoke and mirrors everywhere in the watch industry.

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  29. #79
    This is all fascinating stuff and a lot of people could come out of it very badly. I wonder if any of the review sites that claimed to have met the non-existent master watchmaker Charles Ginault and his small team of highly experienced American watchmakers will post retractions and admit that they just wrote what they were paid to write.

    WUS does at least seem to be allowing some debate now but, in the main, seem to be supporting Ginault. My two favourites are the guy claiming that itís all just a Chinese conspiracy to take down a great American brand, and the guy who believes that, whatever TC/Ginault has done, itís nothing as bad as Seiko did when they developed quartz movements and forced Swiss watchmakers to commit suicide. There are some real nutcases over there!

  30. #80
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    There are some people who also blindly defend the brand regardless of the facts given as the result of the investigations

  31. #81
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    While it's all very interesting, there's no denying they produced a high quality product at incredible prices, really makes a mockery of big name manufacturers and vividly illustrates the premium on brand power.

  32. #82
    Master robcuk's Avatar
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    There is nothing new here, several microbrands have jumped the barrier from Replica to Mainstream. I remember the guy behind Lum-Tec selling relumed replica watch dials on several sites, and even offering a relume service on your own dial/hands.

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by robcuk View Post
    There is nothing new here, several microbrands have jumped the barrier from Replica to Mainstream. I remember the guy behind Lum-Tec selling relumed replica watch dials on several sites, and even offering a relume service on your own dial/hands.
    It still is exceptional research using digital forensics, particularly when he had gone to such lengths to hide his identity. If he continues to provide false information about his Ďlegití watches, it is a problem.
    His watches IME ( Ginault) better than any homages from bigger brands. That is the tough part- reconciling his history and practices with his watches.

  34. #84
    Master robcuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    It still is exceptional research using digital forensics, particularly when he had gone to such lengths to hide his identity. If he continues to provide false information about his Ďlegití watches, it is a problem.
    His watches IME ( Ginault) better than any homages from bigger brands. That is the tough part- reconciling his history and practices with his watches.
    Agreed, I wasn't trying to 'dilute' the content, yes it is concerning, and some incredible work has gone into exposing this, however i fear the whistleblower comes across as too 'how very dare he' and loses many readers for that reason alone.

  35. #85
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    Would tend to agree with the previous observations that, at the end of the day, some high quality watches were produced, and it is unfortunate that they are now forever tainted by the
    subterfuge.

    A pity certainly and revealing about the industry on many fronts.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    It still is exceptional research using digital forensics, particularly when he had gone to such lengths to hide his identity. If he continues to provide false information about his Ďlegití watches, it is a problem.
    His watches IME ( Ginault) better than any homages from bigger brands. That is the tough part- reconciling his history and practices with his watches.
    I agree about the quality but they are basically a Rolex copy rebranded. The idea that he's turned a new leaf and therefore should be given a chance is challenging to reconcile, as it doesn't take a genius to work out he's still using his old network for his current models. I am undecided if it will damage his sales or business.

  37. #87
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    ....

    I agree about the quality but they are basically a Rolex copy rebranded.
    .......
    And re-priced higher than any Rolex fake could sell at... and don't forget that he would never have had the advertising and the reviews he got if he was still trying to sell it as a Rolex fake.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    And re-priced higher than any Rolex fake could sell at... and don't forget that he would never have had the advertising and the reviews he got if he was still trying to sell it as a Rolex fake.
    But with this comes obligations like guarantees etc. I had a faulty watch replaced by them after a few months.

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  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    And re-priced higher than any Rolex fake could sell at... and don't forget that he would never have had the advertising and the reviews he got if he was still trying to sell it as a Rolex fake.
    True but then he did very well selling his fakes in the first place as they were regarded as the 1:1 copy on the market, hence why the Ginault is such a 1:1 "homage". It's no coincidence.

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    True but then he did very well selling his fakes in the first place as they were regarded as the 1:1 copy on the market, hence why the Ginault is such a 1:1 "homage". It's no coincidence.
    Making 1:1 copies is not a joke. I have seen the so called 1:1 copies or AAA quality or 99.9% copies and while they are good, they donít hold a candle to Ginault. Nor do homages from brands like Squale or Steinhart. Everything is so much better on Ginault, including more importantly the crown action. In isolation, I am a huge fan of his watches. Just wish they
    Y werenít tainted.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Making 1:1 copies is not a joke. I have seen the so called 1:1 copies or AAA quality or 99.9% copies and while they are good, they don’t hold a candle to Ginault. Nor do homages from brands like Squale or Steinhart. Everything is so much better on Ginault, including more importantly the crown action. In isolation, I am a huge fan of his watches. Just wish they
    Y weren’t tainted.
    So have you seen his copies or just a general AAA 1:1 copy as that is where they differ from what I have read, and according to the recent article, they are one and the same. It might be better than my Steinhart but at least I know what I am buying into and I get Swiss movement to boot, for less.
    Last edited by stix; 8th July 2019 at 15:19.

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    So have you seen his copies or just a general AAA 1:1 copy as that is where they differ, from what I have read and according to the recent article, are indeed one and the same. It might be better than my Steinhart but at least I know what I am buying into and I get Swiss movement to boot, for less.
    Not his copies. The only copies I have seen are from a website that starts with a T and ends with a Y and requires some
    Trust and some Time and is a big player in replica world. I havenít been on any replica fora though I have a franken Sub apparently put together by someone on a replica forum. If his replicas were as good as Ginault, still have grudging admiration for his skills.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Not his copies. The only copies I have seen are from a website that starts with a T and ends with a Y and requires some
    Trust and some Time and is a big player in replica world. I haven’t been on any replica fora though I have a franken Sub apparently put together by someone on a replica forum. If his replicas were as good as Ginault, still have grudging admiration for his skills.
    Haha all good and I am still unsure how I feel about it all as I can't deny I like one or two of his models. When I did my own research about Ginault some time ago online, the overriding anecdotal evidence was that his (TC) copies were THE most accurate and of the highest quality. They were revered amongst rep geeks.
    Last edited by stix; 8th July 2019 at 15:36.

  44. #94
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    I like these, however af the current price with no discount available, a little pricey for a homage..(I checked with them direct re the discount)

  45. #95
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    I'm a simple minded kind of chap at the best of times but if he'd come to the market saying " hi guys, I'm Tsung Chi and I used to make great fake Rolexes but I've moved on and am now launching some great watches that look a lot like Rolexes", I'd have been ok but it's the deception and running the two side by side that does it for me.

    A bit like Kobold, the man's a snake and I wouldn't wear his watch.

  46. #96
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    You can't make it up...

    Exposing Ginault Watch Brand*
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy9Aefa0TgE





    * McManus Watches - they're back!
    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...s-they-re-back!

  47. #97

  48. #98
    Master bobbee's Avatar
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    I have to say most of those redditt posters appear short of the full shilling...

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