Reply With QuoteAesthetics is only one part - materials quality, build quality etc are if anything even more important.
And they look the same because they copy them at a very intricate level. There are fakes and fakes.... ranging from £10 to hundreds.
how do they look so accurate?
just looking at some iwc ones and even the smallest detail is copied, or to me seems the smallest detail. i very much doubt people could tell the difference without inspecting them, but i dont think i could bring myself to wear a fake, id rather do without
Aesthetics is only one part - materials quality, build quality etc are if anything even more important.
And they look the same because they copy them at a very intricate level. There are fakes and fakes.... ranging from £10 to hundreds.
What Dan said. Some places go from a photo and some buy the real thing, strip it down and copy it piece by piece. In the fake world you get what you pay for which perhaps you don't in the non fake world!Originally Posted by danmiddle2
What Dan said. Some places go from a photo and some buy the real thing, strip it down and copy it piece by piece. In the fake world you get what you pay for which perhaps you don't in the non fake world![/quote]
:shock: That's a bit of an eye-opener...
:shock: That's a bit of an eye-opener...[/quote]
You could if you wanted to, pay £500 for a Fake Rolex actually made by Rolex trained craftsmen. I kid you not :?
It's getting harder and harder to spot the fakes and worse is the fact that the likes of Seiko are now being copied :!:
It's quite interesting to see the high quality fakes, 2-3-400 quid for something that looks and feels more or less exactly like the real deal. Worse off is how it mechanically actually feels high quality as well.
So what makes it interesting?
Well, it makes you wonder how much a high volume producer like rolex or omega actually makes per watch ;-).
The replicas are sold with a profit margin as well, so it sort of makes you think.
(Perhaps controversially on this forum) I will say that I don't actually mind fake watches. I would never own one myself, but I understand that some of the watches which I own I am privileged to be able to own. To others these are aspirational items that are somewhat unattainable (in the same way many watches are aspirational to me). Imitation is a form of flattery, so I understand it.
What I don't like is when people try to palm a fake off as the real thing when they are selling it. That is just robbery.
In some fakes, they even try to replicate the movement part-by-part!
It does make you think. I would suggest £5000 on a £5500 watch! :)
There was a report somewhere sometime recently investigating fake watch sellers. As part of the research the reporter bought a dirt cheap fake a middling fake and an expensive fake with a "genuine Swiss movement" which was also fake. Prices ranged from £120 to £600.
There were no differences between the fakes. They were all identical and all fake.
Investigating the retailers, the reporter discovered that two, the cheapest and the most expensive, were actually the same company.
The broader report concluded that the fake market was as advanced in it's marketing as the rest of retail, selling essentially the same product at a different price to different markets.
It also concluded that many, if not the majority, of fake sites were ghost sites. Setting out to rip folks off and/or steal their details - namely credit card details.
True story or fake?
Like fakes generally, your choice, your risk :-)
Gray
Well, you don't always - there are a lot of scammer sites out there with misleading photos of genuine Pateks, Rolexes, Omegas, APs, Hublots et al.
The latter part of this conclusion is certainly wrong. There are dramatic differences in quality between replicas of the same watch. If the reporter had done a little bit of research first, he would have got a much higher quality watch for his £££ at one end of the scale than the other - and by the way they can be a lot cheaper than £120, and that's for a fairly convincing and reliable watch.
If I bought a fake I would want it to be £10 and break in a year. A good fake at £500? Just buy a Sinn, or something from TF.
I bought a fake Rolex in NYC (Chinatown) three years ago. I paid $30 bucks for it. A date/just fake. I bought it out of pure curiosity as it had an auto movement and everything worked as it was supposed to - quick date etc. The watch is still working, resists water, has a healthy power reserve and keeps time within 10 or 12 seconds per day.
I presented this watch to my young son (21) who was not in the habit of wearing a watch. But he thought this was 'bling' so he began to wear a watch (my goal). I wanted to see if he would lose it and if he would take care of it. After a a couple years, I told him it was a fake and presented him with a real Rolex when he graduated from school. This is a good way to trick your kid into HOG-ness.
We then sat down with a loupe where I could show him ALL the MANY differences between that piece of crap and a real Rolex. I wanted him to see how the crown feels very different. In other words, this became a very nice lecture on 'quality' similar to the discussion in 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' - one of my favorite philosophical works.
Now he wears his real Rolex with great pride and understands what it is. Win-win.
By the way, on American watch fora I can't even have this discussion. They do not allow it. But I argue that this is a fine use of a fake piece of crap watch.
nice story
Most of the better rep factories use the actual watch they are copying and have fairly astute people heading up the "projects". Some of the reps coming out today are SCARY accurate with only the absolute most in-tune watch experts being able to tell the "tells". Take that to the next level of modding in which highly skilled watchsmiths and alike are able to fine tune these watches (shaving crown guards, correcting crystal heights, inserting genuine parts etc.) and you have some replica watches that literally can only be told apart from the genuine article by taking the case back off and inspecting the movement.
For legal reasons?
Not really. They just take the position that they are not going to allow any discussion of it. There is no legal reason involved. I find the American fora just too heavily moderated.For legal reasons?
Ignoring potential human rights abuses, etc., cheap fakes I have no real issues with because they aren't fooling anyone unless they are fooling themselves. It's like one of those Toyota MR2 cars made to look like a Ferrari. It might impress school children and chavs, and it's not stealing any sales from Ferrari... But, obviously, the problem is when the sellers cheat people out of significant amounts of money by selling fake goods as real, which is made all the worse by those fake goods being well executed.
Some of you are wondering what it is then that you are paying for when you buy an authentic watch when a well executed fake can be had for a fraction. You are paying for the name, for the history behind it, for the provenance, for the image, for their advertising to achieve that image, for the design and development, for the warranty, and ultimately for the promise of a well made product out of best materials with pride and care. All of these things the counterfeiters reap without having made any investment beyond setting up their production in a place where there is little regard for employment or human rights.
In the end these are luxury goods so to question the price is absurd, you either want it or you do not. It is not an essential product and if you didn't want it for the image and the prestige you'd go to Argos and get something for £20 which would do exactly the same job, probably more accurately.
The replicas are probably sold with a much higher profit margin than the genuine product, due to the lack of marketing costs, no R&D, no great quality control. They employ cheap labour, a lot of them children, and cheaper materials and production methods.
Fair comment, HOWEVER, if it is still doing everything it is meant to do after some 3-4 years of regular use, it can't really be 'crap' and for 30 USbucks cannot be described as other than 'value for money', no ?? :wink:
I heard a chappie (reliable !) wearing his replica watch walked into a very well known London store, showed the piece to the sales chap, whom checked it 'as didn't see these that often' - even put it on, and did not discover it 'was a piece of crap' :twisted:
It certainly DOES make you wonder what the real markup is by the 'genuine' manufacturers.....
YOU WEAR FAKES
YOU ARE FAKE
A lot of the replica sites use pictures of the genuine product in their ads and sales sites which are different to the actual product they sell. Also, some of the fake watches originate from the companies that produce dials, cases and watches for some of the Boutique WIS Brands and Swiss companies that are then assembled in Switzerland to make them Swiss. Everything that man makes can be reproduced to the same standard. Technology makes it very easy these days; only its so much easier to steal someone else's ideas and to reproduce them, selling them using the name and brand. 99% of all fakes are still very easy identifiable as they are built using short cuts. If one wanted to reproduce a genuine 100% replica of a premium brand with in house movement the sales price would probably be the same; like printing your own £10 notes at a cost of £11 each :lol:
As a new watch enthusiast..
The thought of wearing a fake version of any of my grail/WTB watches just wouldn't be on, because it just wouldn't be my grail watch.
It's an appreciation of the company, engineering and art.
For someone that's just after a brand/label on their wrist..they're probably good enough?
But you áre kidding :!:
Rolex is fully automated mass production. No pink cow riding handy :bigsmurf: ´making´ them.
There is a whole lot more hands on involved in the fakes.
Mind you, NOT ´replicas´ but fákes.
As to materials that is relative too depending on the quality of the fake.
The best made ones use 316L and synthetic sapphire. Not in the least substandard to the real thing.
You can even get one with an ETA 2893-2 which is pretty good.
You are simply not paying for the superior quality control, the distribution chain, after service and ´the real thing´.
It does not matter that the Swiss charge an arm and a leg for that; up to several times what the hardware ´should´ cost. The added value is very much real product too. It os thát which is selling the Swiss brands. It is that which is stolen with criminal intent.
The whole thing is that they are FAKES. It is a form of theft.
The better made fakes are vry good watches in theri onw right but should be branded differently or not. That would not sell as big though and that is exactly the criminal intent. Selling based on a faked added value.
The topic title is WRONG.
Please change ´replica´ to ´fake´.
I beg to difer.
You are omitting the brand value. The current prices of the big name mechanicals are for the by fár biggest par not cost of manufacture but intangible added value of the brand.
Current ´Swiss´ prices are very, véry far removed from cost.
Look at Precista; ETA in Fricker case. Pretty good.
Opt for a higher grade ETA, a bit higher finish and the watch is on par with luxury Swiss for :mrgreen: the price.
Chinese fakes are offered too with 2893-2 in a 316L case, all with pretty good finish. Say Tudor (not to tread on long toes covering everything) and not costing néarly that much.
It is not a good way to look at the issue this way Dibetu. It just serves to illustrate the húge chunck of added value.
It is not an argument. It ís a real part of the product and exactly thát which is being stolen.
The fakes are selling not because of the case/movement but because of the branding faking the added value.
Me too. :lol:
Just say you started a business and invested into all the technology used to reproduce a high end in-house complication (you can't use unskilled labour for that) including developing a hairspring like the parachrom blue hairspring, silicium lever escapement a free sprung balance......I would love to see any company out there selling at lower prices. The added value comes with years of marketing and producing a quality product that meets or exceeds expectations of customers while being able to mass produce to a very high level of sophistication.
Last summer I strolled into one of many 'watch' shops on holiday in Turkey, with my brain fully disengaged (in holiday mode) and walked out with a Smega PO and Shopard MM. I can honestly say I didn't plan it, but was bored waiting for my Mrs and little lady to finish clothes shopping, getting the nails done etc.
I hadn't worn a watch for years and the Smega was particularly stunning. On returning home I looked up the very similar Omega PO online and any differences were absolutely minimal. The weight, look, everything was very, very good and many people were impressed with it.
Brain re-engaged, I knew I shouldn't have got them, but had the urge to get a real watch again. So now less than a year later I now have 5 'real' watches and am an enthusiastic collector, all thanks to a blip on holiday i.e. buying them got me into real watches!
and btw the way, I binned the holiday watches. Hard to do with the PO, but I'll get there one day!
But the replica maker doesn't have any of the overheads of the prestige company he is copying, no R&D, no service dept, no advertising every day in the Times and glossy monthlys, no sponsorship of sports celebrities etc. I tell you what, why don't the fakers make an *original* watch and see how easy it is to turn a profit at their current prices?
Sums it up nicely ;-)
Gray
Personally, I wouldn't wear a fake, but I can see one use that I want to put them to.
I'm pretty paranoid about home security, I've made it as difficult as I can for any would be thief, but there's always the chance that they could get in. Certainly round where I live, seems to be more and more cases of they prefer it when you're in, so they can drag you round the house showing you where eveything is.
So if I'm unfortunate enough to have to open up a safe, I'd like to be able to give them a safe full of replicas rather than the real things. Might be over paranoid, but some of my collection mean more sentimentally than anything else and couldnt be replaced.
Just a thought, albeit a bad one!!
Malc
Quality is irrelevant, a fake is a fake is a fake.
Hving said all that, if YOU know its a fake, it still must feel hollow inside...........
Don't advertise it too much, else they won't bite the bait :lol:
About 20%. You can look it up in Swatch Group's annual reports, which is released to the public since it's a publicly listed company.
Don't forget, labor and manufacturing in Asia is for the most part cheaper than in Switzerland, and fake watches don't need much of a marketing budget, for obvious reasons.
Well if you really really wanted a Rolex Sub (say), buying a £80 version from a Chinese website won't scratch that itch, sure. That said though, I really doubt that most people who do that are really hoping to find a short-cut to achieving their ambition to own a luxury watch. As you say, it wouldn't work.
I have owned 4 Rolexes so far... two Subs, a SD and a Datejust. I know more than enough about the brand to know just what to look for and know the easy and more difficult "tells". That being said, I have seen a few Rolex replicas in which I could not tell it from a genuine watch. I would have needed to take the case back off to see the movement in order to discern its authenticity. These pieces were roughly $500-800 watches. That is how good these replica/fakes can be. :shock:
There are plenty of alternatives that buy you a quality luxury watch for just over the higher end fake price.
The issue is that these buyes do nót have the ambition to own such quality hardware. They aspire brand image to shine on them.
That does work when the fake is so good you need to take the rear lid off to spot the difference and even thén more than one could be fooled since the asian clone movements even have the right pink gears and - balance spring bridge.
See and shudder:
http://www.sinowatches.net/movement-pictures-c-25.html
I've a few, two fairly good Rollies, an old school Rolly (just a name on a dial, looks nothing like a real one -any model) a couple of Omeggies a couple of Panny-ish things, a Bell and Poss <- correct ! - - all of which are good enough running pieces, one of my Rollies was around £12 from HK, they all, without fail they all perform as well as you would expect from a watch from any budget/mid price maker irrespective of the "supposed" name on the dial. Largely, a majority of these items fall within a VFM level .at their price point! 8)
Do they "really" support a lot of (money laundering/terrorism/slave/child labour/foreign trafficking/drugs barons * choose one from list) - or is it just blatant commerciaal greed - I'd say the latter, it's easier to sell as a fake Rollie, than to promote an item from scratch as a Xelor or an Agemo or an Iarenap.
2c worth
:roll:
How would you call the Omepanro price strategy?
A lot of it is based on iffy marketing. Sometimes plain... euh... untrue.
Wether the Omepanros are overpriced with a brand image bult on urban myths ot wetehr the fakes are good quality products is not the crux however.
The crux is that these branded fakes called replicas are a breach of copyright. Period.
Buying one is like knowingly buying stolen goods.
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