Cayman S -V - 911

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Any experiences or views.

Much appreciated - no strong opinions myself (yet).

TIA.

[mark996]

I'm on my second 911 (a 996 C4S Cabriolet) and they are truly fabulous cars.

That said, I was at a Porsche trackday last year and had a few laps in a Cayman S. The performance difference between the 911 Carrera and the Cayman S was very small on a track with short straights and the handling was very, very different. The Cayman was crisper and more 'natural' feeling in the bends. I was very impressed.

If I didn't need a back seat for my 6 year old, I would seriously consider a Cayman.

Trite answer, but I'd go for a drive in a couple of versions of each car and see which one floats your boat. I suspect neither will disappoint you.

[Omegamanic]

What is the use of the car?

Personally, I preferred the Cayman S as a one off driving experience compared to the 997 - bearing in mind, I have only driven a Cayman S 3 times. In that sense it was imo the better car.

Living with one may be different.

There was more of a sense of occasion with the 997 - and you get a little more car and engine.

The handling in the Cayman S definitely felt more direct (and safe - if that is the right word) I felt more able to drive the Cayman S a lot faster - whether this is because I own a boxster I don't know - I would say the handling in the Cayman felt different to the boxster also - much more than I thought it would.

However, the ability to carry stuff is similar (minus you could squeeze a 3rd adult across the rear seats of the 997) with maybe the Cayman being a little more practical unless you use the spare seats.

I think I would go for the Cayman S - I was trying to decide myself the other month - before deciding on keeping my boxster S and looking for something that does as many miles per gallon as possible that I would still be happy driving - not come up with the answer yet.

[andy tims]

As a long term 911 fan (and owner) I'd rather spend the same cash on an older 911 or less cash on the equivalent spec Boxster S.

The Cayman S is a great handling car that neither challenges or rewards in the same way that a 911 can if driven properly. I drove one and got out impressed, but having no "I want one" feelings at all.

The Boxster handles nearly as well & obviously gives to option of top down fun.

[Omegamanic]

After reading Andy's comments above - I would add, if it was a choice of buying a new Cayman S or a nice used 997 of my choice then I'd probably go for the 997 - that is if I had to or wanted to spend the same amount of cash on a car. However, for less money you could have a purer driving experience.

The 997 is a fabulous car.

[TheWatchman]

The Cayman is the car you go for if you can't stretch to a 911. Go for an older spec 911.

[GOAT]

I have a 911 (c4s) and love it, tempted to change in the near future....trouble is a 997 version costs about 60% more for what feels like 5% more car, Cayman interests me but at the end of the day it's just not a 911 and I think might regret it after having had one
I dont rate myself as some kind of driving god (though have held a competition licence in the past) and the 4s handling is superb, wet or dry, no problem with twitchiness, thats for sure. I only use it on the road, by the way, and it has so much in reserve, you'd be reckless to "lose it"
Goat

[Omegamanic]

The Cayman is the car you go for if you can't stretch to a 911. Go for an older spec 911.

That is rubbish - there are many reasons someone may buy one over a 911 - this is just a oft repeated snob statement in my book.

Personally, I could have gone out and bought a 911 years ago but wanted a convertible - after taking my time driving as many as possible I can tell you a) the 911 convertible (996) doesn't look as good as a boxster and b) does not handle anywhere near as well.

If we are talking buying brand new then maybe you have a slight point as £20k-£30k more may have quite a bearing in your purchase - but used? Some people are paying a lot more for their Caymans than a nice low mile 997 would cost them - go figure.

My ultimate car at the minute would be a 997GT3 :)

[Parabola]

I know a guy with a few Porsches, he briefly had a Cayman S for commuting up the M4 but soon got rid of it and bought another 911 instead. Apparently they whine, which can get quite tiresome on motorways

[andrew]

The Cayman is the car you go for if you can't stretch to a 911. Go for an older spec 911.

This is a now a cliche, often not written from experience, and mainly relates to the original Boxster from the 1990s. The 911 is the car you go for if you can't afford a Ferrari. The Ferrari, a cheaper Lamborghini, etc. So it doesn't just apply to the Cayman, which - if I recall correctly - was originally not offered with a limited-slip diff like the 911 because when it was, it was faster than one around the Nurburgring.

[andy tims]

My ultimate car at the minute would be a 997GT3 :)

I was at Rockingham on Saturday & there were only 2 faster cars than me. An Aerial Atom, whose pace through the twisty infield made him quicker over the whole lap & a mate in his Gen 2 997 GT3RS (way faster than the Atom). I had a few PAX laps with him & the grip, grunt & poise of the current car was just breathtaking.

[sparmar1]

I guess it depends on which 911 variant...compared to my old 993C4, the Cayman had better handling, better steering, was more practical and easier to live with. It wasn't as "special" an occasion though, and to look at, the 993 was just so pretty.





Both sadly departed...funnily enough I asked my eldest son which was his favourite of my old cars, without hesitation he said Cayman!

Sanj :)

[NickMSM]

Sanjay, totally agree! I am on the hunt for a 993 as we speak. Just trying to bag myself a decent example as this will be a keeper.

[Omegamanic]

Argghhh - now yet again I am drawn to the same cars - 911 or a Cayman.

Wondering if I can really justify a 997 GT3 - bloody lovely car and I could take it to Oz with me in X-mas 2012 when I move :)

Hmmm - too many decisions.

[oily101200]

Apparently they whine, which can get quite tiresome on motorways

Always tricky. My wife and I have had a few discussions about this. We have yet to reach an amicable solution..... :roll:

On topic - Went to the Pistonheads Sunday Service at Silverstone late last year. There were 20 or so cars going from my area. The route was A and good(ish) 8) B roads. The 968 performed well :wink: The 997 GT3 owner wasn't a happy bunny - too many bumps, the car was too unsettled for his liking.

1. A GT3 is a fairly hard core car. To use it in a fun way, I suggest you may need some smooth roads...
2. A Cayman seems a fun road car. The ones I have driven have all performed very well.

Lovely decision :mrgreen:

[NJH]

I am fairly small but I just find the cabin in the Cayman a bit claustrophobic. Its one of those odd things, never drove one but just sitting in one for a few minutes was enough to put me off. Its doubly odd given that I love 944/968 series of cars, also leftfield Porsche models with a very close cockpit but they just don't feel claustrophobic like the Cayman does. I think its a mid-engined thing, I have never liked the feel of being in the cabin of any mid-engined car.

[Omegamanic]

997 it is then - you are right the cabin feels less cramped and my be easier to live with day to day.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Thanks everybody - very informative.

I am now leaning towards a 996 4s - some really great cars with low miles for not big mOney. I am suprised, since I expected the 4s to be out of range but it is actually more in range.

Anything to look out for?

Any common problems?

TIA

[andyroo]

Had a Cayman S for a bit and it's quite a hardcore car (and I owned a VX220 as an only car!). The road noise, engine and wind noise are loud, the ride is very hard, the steering is heavy, its a cramped cabin and you have to spend a lot of money to make the interior anywhere near as luxurious as the 997. It also felt a bit gutless and sounded rather bland.

BUT

It handled so sweetly, the gear changes were bang on, and heel and toe was so rewarding. You could balance the thing on the throttle with such confidence - the E92 M3 I had afterward was a fat blob compared.

Cayman for driving, 997 for driving with a spot of cruising.

[Omegamanic]

Anyone driven the 40th Anniversary 996 - I understand from a little research that it has the 997 engine as standard 345bhp - which would be quite useful - about the same prices as the C4S though - but sorted suspension and a decent engine - less chance of RMS failure I would expect?

[paulpsz008]

Anyone driven the 40th Anniversary 996 - I understand from a little research that it has the 997 engine as standard 345bhp - which would be quite useful - about the same prices as the C4S though - but sorted suspension and a decent engine - less chance of RMS failure I would expect?

I haven't driven an anniversary, but its a bit too close to 997 money for me.
I know I'm not really comparing eggs with eggs but the 996 C2 I tried was totally outclassed by a 997 C2S I borrowed.

[Omegamanic]

The 997's I have driven have been leagues ahead of the 996's also. Tricky decision.

Oh I think I'll be a diesel Cayenne ;)

[GOAT]

996 anniversary has the 996 engine.and standard carrera (i.e not turbo body) bodywork, it does have the turbo/4s front apron however.
it is fitted with the x51 power upgrade option which comprises heads manifolds,intake and re programming,it originally cost about £5k if specified on a 996. RMS problems are potentially as with any 996- this is largely becoming less common now that more and more cars are out of warranty and hence not the cash cow they were for dealers , who earned a handsome living , partly funded by Porsche for this work,completed on warranty.
it does not have the 997 engine as such
it does have a dinky little 911 badge on the engine cover though...
Goat

[albasil]

If you want a Porsche anything other than a 911 will be a disappointment. I had 3 boxsters one an S. Problem for me was you needed to rev the he'll out of them to get any response, gets very tiresome after a while. I'm probably in the minority here but I much preferred my TVR Chimeara. I now have fully donned my pipe and slippers and bought a Jag XK. Bigger boot similar fuel economy. Cheaper servicing goes pretty well and you can do 300 mile and not need a chiropractor at the end! Plus sound great. Second hand they're a steal too. Take one for a test drive and compare. 2006 model onwards

AB

[Foxy100]

I love my Boxster S but it's not as much fun as my 924S track car, stripped out and with uprated suspension, adjustable dampers all round and stonking brakes.

There's a 997 Carrera in black with black interior which parks on the same street as me. It's my next proper car. Whenever it's there I just stop and look at it. I've yet to see anything about it that isn't right.

[stiglet]

The 997's I have driven have been leagues ahead of the 996's .........

Without wishing to Hijack the thread (sorry OP)- if a 997 C2 is about the same cash as a good 996TT - which is the one to go for?

Cheers

JP :D

[Omegamanic]

The 997's I have driven have been leagues ahead of the 996's .........

Without wishing to Hijack the thread (sorry OP)- if a 997 C2 is about the same cash as a good 996TT - which is the one to go for?

Cheers

JP :D

Too many options - I still think the 997 is the one to go for though. It handles better and isn't too much slower. The 996T is going to be a faster car in a straight line - but from what I read this only really kicks in over 100mph - 0-100 for both has been timed at about 10.5 - some quicker some slower.

997 better handling and rides better
996T - slightly faster and 4x4 - heavier

997 shape - best looking 911 since the 993.

[Foxy100]

The new 911 launches at the Frankfurt show in September and is a completely new car. I wonder if 997 prices will be affected?

[chrisparker]

If you want a Porsche anything other than a 911 will be a disappointment. I had 3 boxsters one an S.
AB

You were so disappointed with the one Boxter you bought an another two?

[Foxy100]

If you want a Porsche anything other than a 911 will be a disappointment. I had 3 boxsters one an S.
AB

You were so disappointed with the one Boxter you bought an another two?

I love my 'S', it's nice and relaxing normally and if you want to go fast you just have to work it, which is part of the fun. The only time it's problematic is when an overtaking opportunity takes you by surprise and unless you're in the right gear, you're stuffed.

[Omegamanic]

Leaning towards the 997 today - my little boy likes them both - but I think he might even fit in the miniture seats in the 997 - he would fit in the boot of the Cayman but not sure he would enjoy the ride :lol:

[NickMSM]

The new 911 launches at the Frankfurt show in September and is a completely new car. I wonder if 997 prices will be affected?

997's already can be had for low £20ks now, a lot of depreciation ahead I think. The 59-11 plates will probably be heavily affected I would think but still the older cars will drop further, just look at what a 996 can be had for.

[Omegamanic]

Okay...

I am thinking of getting a 997 - the Carrera 4 S is looking the nicest to me - I much prefer the wider body.

Does any one have any tips and ideas of the types of prices that are realistic for the different models.

If I really like it Id import with me to Oz as they are crazy money there due to the luxury car tax, which the 997 should skip well below as a used car by the time I take it.

[albasil]

If you want a Porsche anything other than a 911 will be a disappointment. I had 3 boxsters one an S.
AB

You were so disappointed with the one Boxter you bought an another two?

What happened was the idiots at Porsche delivered the wrong spec boxsters. So I had one for 3 months waiting for the right one. When I got the right one I upgraded to the s 18 months later. Hoping it would be better. Sadly annoying technical faults with all 3 tainted my view of Porsche for evermore.
AB

[andy tims]

Okay...

I am thinking of getting a 997 - the Carrera 4 S is looking the nicest to me - I much prefer the wider body.

Admittedly I'm a bit of a RWD / over steer fan, but why buy a 911 & then go 4WD unless you're just buying for the looks.

[Omegamanic]

Okay...

I am thinking of getting a 997 - the Carrera 4 S is looking the nicest to me - I much prefer the wider body.

Admittedly I'm a bit of a RWD / over steer fan, but why buy a 911 & then go 4WD unless you're just buying for the looks.

Part looks - but having driven both the 4 wheel drive version felt better balanced to me - only 10% drive to the front unless it needs more through loss of grip - a quick look states that it laps faster too, even in the dry - also the previous model 4S version is 30% more as a used car - so I presume slightly better residuals too as a much rarer purchase.

Must admit I am still torn between the Cayman and the 997 though.

If it was a 997GT3 - then the choice would be made - but I just can't justify £60k for a car :(

[NJH]

The values of s/h 911's have always shown some odd interesting trends. Has for at least the last 10 years been the case that when relatively new the 4wd and targa versions hold a lot of value but eventually fall behind the 2wd pure coupe. I always used to fancy the 993 targa for example, used to cost loads and even only a few years back worth loads more than a plain vanilla 993 c2. Now though the trend is showing through and there getting cheap. The 964 shows this trend perfectly, everyone wants the purer 2wd version to the point that a nice 964 C2 is becoming a rare and a relatively appreciating car. I guess what I am saying is that if I was buying a 911 to keep long term it would always be either a special like an RS / GT3 or the normal pure C2. One has to take into account the enthusiasts choice in this as its enthusiasts that create the value on older cars and they have always wanted 2wd 911's.

[Shakespeare]

Okay...

I am thinking of getting a 997 - the Carrera 4 S is looking the nicest to me - I much prefer the wider body.

Admittedly I'm a bit of a RWD / over steer fan, but why buy a 911 & then go 4WD unless you're just buying for the looks.

Part looks - but having driven both the 4 wheel drive version felt better balanced to me - only 10% drive to the front unless it needs more through loss of grip - a quick look states that it laps faster too, even in the dry - also the previous model 4S version is 30% more as a used car - so I presume slightly better residuals too as a much rarer purchase.

Must admit I am still torn between the Cayman and the 997 though.

If it was a 997GT3 - then the choice would be made - but I just can't justify £60k for a car :(

Something to consider with the heavier 4S is that the rear tyres are wider than the 2 wheel drive versions which equates to more expensive tyres. In addition, having driven front wheels means that the front tyres wear quicker the 2 cars. Typically with a 911 (and certainly the case with both my current and previous one) you get twice as much tyre life from the fronts than the rears. The rear engine configuration is the main reason for this. Factor in that the 4 is heavier than the 2 and you get faster wear on other components such as brakes too. I do agree however that the fatter rear end on the 4 models really does look good and that rear end view with all the curves meeting above the wheel arches is what a 911 is all about.

The 2 and 4 wheel drive models do feel different to drive. I did the Porsche Driving Experience at Silverstone in December and spent time blatting a PDK 4S then a manual 2S round the handling circuit. You can feel the front wheels picking up the drive and 'pulling you' out of corners.

As far as the 911 vs Cayman argument goes, I have spent time driving the Cayman S and it is a phenominally good car. On public roads it has sufficient power and it handles very well. Yes, it could do with more power but pretty much any model in the Porsche range has a chassis that would take more power. We all know that Cayman / Boxster models are deliberately kept behind the 911 models but they are still class-leading sports cars. In terms of its size, the Cayman reminds me a lot of the 993, in terms of width/length proportions. If I didn't have kids I would be more than happy to run one for a few years. As it is, I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old so can't get away with a 2 seater anymore. Having the 911 means we can get out as a family in the fun car at weekends and my two kids just love sitting in the back. Is the 911 more special than a Cayman? Probably, yes, it's a 911 and it's the benchmark against which every other sports car is compared.

[Taff]

Admittedly I'm a bit of a RWD / over steer fan, but why buy a 911 & then go 4WD unless you're just buying for the looks.

I'm in the same camp and agree..