closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: The legal Position & Other Matters!

  1. #1
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife.
    Posts
    3,465

    The legal Position & Other Matters!

    Firstly, I hope that this thread will be contributed too, refined, and finally become a fairly definitive read only post.

    AFAIK the legal position in Scotland is that no-one may pass on a better title (right of onwership) to property than they have. In effect, stolen stays stolen regardless of the innocence or good faith of a buyer, it remains the property of the victim (or the victims insurer after a claim).

    I believe the law in England differs if an item was bought in good faith for a fair price.

    Finally, I understand that title (or ownership) of an item transfers to the insurer if & when they pay out on a claim.

    Now... Over to others who amy ahve a more detailed knowledge... TIA.

    Mike.

  2. #2

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    A valid point.

    If members are looking to contribute stolen items they may wish to give a broad - for example North East / North West / London / South West etc. (so as not to compromise their security further) geographical area in which their item was stolen. Blaggers probably don't try to move stolen items too far about. Or possibly they do....

    But I feel that a geographical marker may help in the recovery of goods.

  3. #3
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Berkshire
    Posts
    100

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    I'm pretty sure stolen stays stole in England, I bought a BMW just over a year ago,
    Log book present, vin on the wind screen and under the bonnet match the reg,
    and the reg came up clean on the HPI.

    Fastforward 6 months, I get pulled for a routine check, the car turned out to be a ringer
    the vin under the bonnet had been filled,filled and re-punched, and the vin on the windscreen had
    a sticker with a duff vin on top of the original, lost the car and the money, seller not to be found
    again.

  4. #4
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    3,435

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    The abolision of Marche Ouvert in 1995 was long overdue

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March%C3%A9_ouvert

    According to this article "The law declares that, six years after a transaction undertaken "in good faith", the possessor of even a stolen object obtains full legal ownership.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/ ... ritage.art

  5. #5

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    Where I live "good faith" used to mean that you could keep the item, but since some decade ago "stolen stays stolen". This is how it should be!


    Quote Originally Posted by miked10270
    Firstly, I hope that this thread will be contributed too, refined, and finally become a fairly definitive read only post.

    AFAIK the legal position in Scotland is that no-one may pass on a better title (right of onwership) to property than they have. In effect, stolen stays stolen regardless of the innocence or good faith of a buyer, it remains the property of the victim (or the victims insurer after a claim).

    I believe the law in England differs if an item was bought in good faith for a fair price.

    Finally, I understand that title (or ownership) of an item transfers to the insurer if & when they pay out on a claim.

    Now... Over to others who amy ahve a more detailed knowledge... TIA.

    Mike.

  6. #6

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    I know that in England if you find something and keep it it's classed as theft by finding.

  7. #7

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    In case any of you buy a stolen watch from Germany. The law in Germany states that stolen property is, at all times, property of the victim. No good faith about it and, you stand a good chance of prosecution if you are possession of stolen goods.

  8. #8

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nash
    I'm pretty sure stolen stays stole in England, I bought a BMW just over a year ago,
    Log book present, vin on the wind screen and under the bonnet match the reg,
    and the reg came up clean on the HPI.

    Fastforward 6 months, I get pulled for a routine check, the car turned out to be a ringer
    the vin under the bonnet had been filled,filled and re-punched, and the vin on the windscreen had
    a sticker with a duff vin on top of the original, lost the car and the money, seller not to be found
    again.
    This is true "caveat emptor" or "buyer beware". once stolen and payed out for it is property of the insurance company if recovered. If not payed out for it is still property of the original owner. And if proven such as the above case it can be taken off you with no comeback

  9. #9

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    Quote Originally Posted by zpaulg
    I know that in England if you find something and keep it it's classed as theft by finding.
    Afraid I disagree with the quoted. Put simply, so long as reasonable efforts to find the original owner (within reason & consideration of the circumstances) have proven fruitless, one may retain lost property and the title of ownership will pass subsequently.

    For stolen goods, the seller of stolen goods lacks either legal ownership or the rights amounting to ownership necessary for the transfer of good title. Stolen is stolen, as has been suggested 'caveat emptor'.

    Excuse the slapdash assembly.

  10. #10

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    Dont know if this still applies but items can be reported lost and found.

    the found item is reported to the police as found and if the owner is not found within three months the finder has legal title.

    seems that quite a lot of people scavenge in waste sites and find valuable stuff that was stolen years ago, the items are reported lost and found etc.

    Amazing how the same people seem to be so lucky in their scavenging.

  11. #11
    Master findo-400's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Fast by an ingle, bleezing finely
    Posts
    1,036

    Re: The legal Position & Other Matters!

    El Jack wrote
    Afraid I disagree with the quoted. Put simply, so long as reasonable efforts to find the original owner (within reason & consideration of the circumstances) have proven fruitless, one may retain lost property and the title of ownership will pass subsequently.
    Afraid not Jack me old mate. Theft by Finding is a Common Law crime in Scotland also. You are correct in that you're obliged to make all reasonable efforts to find the owner however, after that you come unstuck. Having failed to locate the rightful owner, you are then obliged to make sure the property is handed in to a police station, (unless it is found on public transport, where there is separate legislation), you will be given a receipt for the property and asked if you would like to receive any reward offered by the true owner. That box will be ticked as required on the form/receipt. If after 3 months (previously 6 months), the property is not claimed, you can then claim the found property as yours. You will sign for it and will therefore have a documented audit of how you came to own it...legally. :wink:

    The "I looked for the owner...honest" doesn't quite work here as, unless you can prove ownership, you are on to plums.

    Regarding buying something at a "really good price", if the goods are sold at a ridiculously low price, it is referred to as a "rougues bargain" and can again find you on the wrong side of the fence of the big building which has metal bars on its windows. If it is sold too cheap, the chances are that it is slightly "warm" and your conscience/judgement will tell you so. Consequently, having something in your posession which you know or suspect to have been stolen, feloniously appropriated or fraudulently obtained, puts you firmly in the crime of Reset "field" and again the "pokey" awaits. :shock:

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by findo-400; 12th February 2013 at 21:49. Reason: spelling!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information