This arrived yesterday, and it was only mailed on Thursday afternoon. Gotta love the USPS!.
Unfortunatley it is not one of the rare issued watches, nor is it from the seller recently discussed here. The lack of a few extra numbers engraved on the back won't bother me (well, not too much).
I usually prefer dateless dials, and this one has day/date. I guess the SBS personnel need to know what day of the month/week it is, unlike their RN diver counterparts... LOL!
I'm sorry but I still dont believe that the PVD day/date is official SBS issue. The SBS is a stealth unit and it's highly unlikely that they would be wearing a watch which, according to the Internet, immediately identifies them as a member of the SBS. Might as well have it tattooed on their forehead.
To me, it's about as believable as all the Seals watches we see.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Can it be that all the major suppliers to the Military, faced with downsizing and smaller Contracts, are waking up to the huge civilian market that awaits them? And therefore are quietly introducing new models that have half an eye out for non-mil sales?Originally Posted by swanbourne
Case in point - the appearance of a Marathon Navigator with a date window on County Comm or the Military Watch Resource, but not to be found in the Govt's GSA website, ie Marathon doesn't have a Contract but they're selling them anyway IMHO.
And where are all these brand new TSAR's coming from, and is the Military <u>really</u> specifying Maraglo 'field' watches?
You mean those gaudy yellow dials are not really issued to the SEALs ? :D
Next thing you'll tell me is there is no tooth fairy..
I clearly stated it was not an issued watch, these are sold by Silvermans and Chronomaster to the general public. I have not had much luck locating an issued version. As for whether or not the SBS actually uses these, I personally cannot say for sure. I know of several collectors who do have issued versions (always with very low serial numbers) that would be a bit upset with your comments. The fact is, if they are not issued to the SBS, then who do you think they might be issued to? I don't see any point in anyone buying these from Silvermans, adding fake serial #s and selling them for less than Silvermans retail price. If they are being faked, why in such small numbers?
There are many examples of special forces using an entirely distinctive watch: Sheyatet-13 with the Eterna Knotinki Super, SEALs using the Benrus type I and type II and the SandY P650 and P660. That argument doesn't hold much water, I am afraid.
I am looking for supporting facts now. An interesting challenge for sure. I'll report back soon.
Cheers
http://www.mwrforum.net/cgi-bin/mwr.pl?read=133637
http://www.network54.com/Forum/messa...geid=986494702
I hope this settles any doubts. :wink:
Thanks for the links Duarte but I don't recognise MWR as an all-encompassing authority on military watches. I agree that they are often right but certainly not always.
I never said that the PVD watch was not issued, I simply doubt that it is issued exclusively to the SBS. I repeat, and this is from personal experience, no member of the special forces would wear a watch which uniquely identified them as special forces. Now that would be plain stupid, wouldn't it? "Remove all identifying insignia lads but wear your SBS watch so the enemy can know who you are".
Eddie
PS. I have investigated previous claims by one of the authors you quote and found them to be more fiction than fact on several occasions.
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Hardly exclusively so, though. The Benrus Type I was also issued at least to members of the USMC, IIRC from MWR. The Benrus Types II were also issued to regular aircrew (they were the forerunners of the Adanac/Marathon navigators), as was the P650. As a matter of fact, a year ago or so there was a comment on MWR that the P650 still seemed freely available to ANG aircrew.
IMHO there are too few reports about the P660 to determine a pattern of distribution, and I can't say anything about the Israelis.
Cheers,
Martin ("Crusader")
Posted today on MWR.Royal Marines SBS are based in Hamworthy, Poole in Dorset. They are now called the Special Boat Service and are only slightly smaller than the SAS. Like the SAS and the SRR they do the UKSF selection course followed by a year to 18 months extra training, including the standard diver course which is done alongside members of many other units and services.
They always have a USN SEALS Officer and SNCO attached and there is always an SBS Officer and SNCO attached to the SEALS. They wear standard RM uniform except for a small gold badge with the letters SC on their No1 Dress. I have read in the popular press that Para wings are an indication of an SBS operator but thats rubbish as now nearly 60% of Royals are Para trained.
As standard they are now issued the black CWC G10 diver watch which is NEVER worn off duty, although most also have Rolex Submariners either ex issue or private purchase. Increasingly, though, Omega Seamasters are the private purchase of choice in preference to the Submariners because they represent better value for money.
Standing orders for the SBS prohibit the use of G-Shocks, Timex Ironman and any other digital watch.
Ed
Foggy
Thanks Foggy but it still doesn't prove that the PVD CWC is issued exclusively to the SBS, which is what my original point was.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
No idea on exclusivity, Eddie. All I do know is that issued numbers of the black diver seem to be very small in number compared to the standard CWC diver (from my experiences only of course).Thanks Foggy but it still doesn't prove that the PVD CWC is issued exclusively to the SBS, which is what my original point was.
Cheers
Foggy
I will try and find out my friend has some good friends in Poole that he went to Afghanistan with when they were RM's.....now in the SB
I'll ask a mate who was in the Royal Marines and served with the SBS in the Falklands conflict and Northern Ireland.
:wink:
Rod
At no point did I claim the PVD watch was "exclusively" issued to the SBS, as a matter of fact one the links provided alluded to others being issued the PVD diver.. Just as the regular CWC diver is not exclusively issued to RN divers, but to other personnel also, including Army engineer divers and other units.
As for the type Benrus I/II, they too were not exclusive to SEALs, but also UDT teams, even CIA maritime covert ops units, among others. Watches are not usually assigned 'exclusively" to a unit (although Sheyatet-13 was one exception), but may be assigned to several units with similar missions and requirements as far as timekeeping. However they can sometimes be identified with a certain unit. I think that is the case.
While you might not not recognize the MWR as the supreme resource and authority on military watches, the number of experts there certainly outnumbers those anywhere else. The evidence might not be as conclusive as we would like, but it is certainly strong evidence. Until I see evidence proving the contrary, I will continue to believe it.
An interesting debate for sure.
Regards
Duarte
I have had to learn that there are indeed W10-marked SM 300s, issued originally to BA engineers ...
I have no poinion either way about the CWC SBS, but the the point I was trying to make about the Benrus Type II and the SandY P650 is that they were certainly issued to run-of-the mill aircrew and were therefore distributed widely outside the special forces community. So at least these two types are not examples of special forces watches. :wink:
Cheers,
Martin ("Crusader")
If the PVD CWC isn't issued exlusively to the SBS, why is it called the SBS CWC then?
I've sold 40 of the Broadarrow PRS-11 to the Jordanian Special Forces but I don't call it the "Special Forces PRS-11". Hey, does this mean that the Broadarrow PRS-11 is an officially issued military watch?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I am not sure what the official name is, but I am sure the Royal Engineers divers don't appreciate being issued the CWC "Royal Navy Divers" watch :lol: The Marathon SAR is also not an official designation, but it stuck. So did CWC SBS watch. It certainly is a lot easier to remember and rolls off the tongue easier than the CWC model 7995443 or the model 7573317, :lol:
Maybe we are all playing into the marketing ploy, and should call it the CWC PVD diver?
As for the PRS-11, if it was an official purchase, then yes it would be official issue. If it was a unit purchase, then no, although still of interest to a collector. You can call it whatever you like. If it sticks, it sticks
:wink:
BTW, I bought a PRS-4 PVD diver from Harold Marx here in the US and gave it as a birthday gift for my father last Spring. He loves the watch, especially the sapphire crystal with has held up well to his abuse and the lume, which is much better than any watch he had owned previously.
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