I don't like to be unhappy and i'm unhappy to even be typing this :(
I'm a fussy tart, so to avoid disappointment i ask lots of questions. I have recently received a watch that i'm unhappy with and the reasons to me are significant and important. I'm told by the seller, that on a watch of eight years of age this is OK?
I asked very specifically if the lugs were good/OK and got some side on photo's (with some general pictures) suggesting they were. After quick examination it isn't difficult to spot what to me, is a very bad compromise and unacceptable 'issue'. Having enquired as to the "condition of the crown side lugs" i would have thought it reasonable, to have been told they had been pretty heavily 're-worked' and with a poor result.
I'm going to leave the general view on this in the members hands. If i am expecting too much, then so be it, tuff $hit i guess. If i'm not, and it is considered reasonable to have been made aware of this, at least i will feel vindicated but i'm not going to get a refund anyway, that's been made clear :|
Look at the top two lugs and the profile of the right side. The lower pair are not quite 'as bad'.
tough one. many times second hand should be sold as seen but in this world of scammers clearly you have done your research and bought what you thought was a sound piece. its about what you consider good condition against the sellers thoughts. Id have thought a decent seller would offer a fair solution? no chance for negotiation?
TBH Baz - there is no way that you would be happy keeping this is there?
But bad form from the seller if this was not declared.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
i`m a fussy sod too, think we all are when its our own money we`re spending, i can see diff in the lugs, why no chance of a refund?
I'd be wanting my money back. It's not that it's been re-finished per-se, but that it's been so poorly re-finished. I don't think the seller could claim he wasn't aware, i which case he just didn't mention it, which on a reasonably high value watch is poor form IMHO.
The issue that you have with the watch is clearly viible in your picture.
That's some serious metal removal IMHO.
The questions for me are:
Did the price reflect the actual condition of the piece now that you have it in your hands?
Did the seller knowingly mis-represent the watch to you?
yep if your not happy a refund has to be in order?
Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK
Not happy to keep it at all but it's un-returable i'm told. So what do i do, other than join the other vagabonds on eBay to re-sell it.
Bad form? IMO yes, i specifically enquired as to the condition of the lugs. To not be told of this is a very poor show afaic.
That is a major reworking and is no longer even close to the original. My own view is that this should definitely have been mentioned and to supply without mentioning it is unacceptable. If it was sold on here then the seller has the option of putting things right to the buyer's satisfaction or not selling on here again.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
This has had major amounts of metal removed from the lugs, maybe if you offer to pay the person his costs but get your money back as a compromise?
The more i look at that the more i would feel pi**ed off. Things like that you just don't see from a photo if its at an angle. Whats the sellers explanation.
IMO if the watch was sold "without issues" and the price paid reflected that then this is totally unacceptable in fact i would say even fraudulent,the ammount of metal that has been removed is a major rework and has rendered this watch a non saleable item in the Panerai world,on E Bay a maybe?
The seller should do an immeadiate refund.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Unhappy???? I should coco.
What they said ^^^^
That is unreal. What must have happened to the lug before to have the much metal removed. Poor form from the seller to not mention it.
Although you shouldn't have to I think if you try and offer to pay the sellers delivery costs and return to him you maybe in a better position to get a refund- providing the seller has an ounce of decency in him.
Why unreturnable? I assume the usual legal remedies don't apply? Who was the seller?Not happy to keep it at all but it's un-returable i'm told. So what do i do, other than join the other vagabonds on eBay to re-sell it.
Bad form? IMO yes, i specifically enquired as to the condition of the lugs. To not be told of this is a very poor show afaic.
Baz is very fussy (as he says!) but in this instance i think he's 100% correct - that lug is shocking and there is no way seller could not have seen it.
Name and shame if does not agree to refund.
it is pretty obvious from sc who the seller is.. pity that he wont do the decent thing and take watch back. I think given the sellers geographic position.. maybe if you refund his shipping costs may be a good compromise.. although the description did say good condition... not defaced!
Well, I'm no Panerai expert, but even I can see the lugs don't look 'right', so I too would be unhappy...
Not that my opinion helps very much, but I'm putting a metaphorical arm round your shoulder and shaking my head... :|
I suppose what would concern me most is why the lug needed major refinishing and yes, I would want my money back on such an expensive piece. Good luck.
If the watch came from a member here we should all be aware of the seller if he refuses to take the watch back.
Even if the watch did not come from a member here we should all be aware of the seller.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Oh dear, looks like this could be a tricky one, watch came from overseas didn't it :?
If the seller had any decency he'd immediately take it back without any complaint, that watch is obviously not as was described...
I hope this gets resolved ASAP.
No wonder you're unhappy!!
You always search for examples being sold as pristine. Your detailed questioning during the sales process confirms to the seller that you are expecting pristine.
Misrepresentation here no doubt. If the seller didn't recognise that the piece was disfigured I would be amazed.
Considering the sellers attitude here though I can't say I'm surprised. :roll:
Commiserations Baz. Hope it resolves for you. For such an active [s:r5r6kdoc]dealer[/s:r5r6kdoc] oops sorry seller, you would think he would try to resolve things amicably.
Did you not see a picture of the watch face on?
As you say, the case is basically junk now.
Ouch, that's been reworked severely! Definitely should have been declared, after all, what the heck got done to it to need that kind of work?
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
I wouldn't be happy with that. Money back. Name and shame if he doesn't. Seller must have known it was a dud and was probably glad to have got rid of it and so is now hiding behind the no refund policy.
The problem is, that it's all subjective, when it come down to it. Did you pay over the odds for this watch, or were your hopes set a little too high for the sale price. :?:
Is this the PAM91 sold by the "I'm not a dealer but seem to sell a heck of a lot of watches on other forums"? I'm surprised such an active trader won't do a refund.
Name & shame the guy, at least it will protect others from being conned in future.
Edit - why not contact Panerai UK and see what they say? If they say £xxx to repair/refurb, that is what the seller should pay [unless he does the decent thing & refunds you]
A little bit of sleuthing revealed the seller. I've sent him a PM and hopefully he will reconsider his refusal to issue a refund.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
agreed, name and shame, :evil:
Well amongst others, i got these. I can see the problem now but wasn't of course looking for it, i was concerned, naively with hindsight, that the lug screw holes weren't graunched. They're not as you can see, but now i know why. It's easy to be wise with knowledge and it's obvious to me now. But i don't think it's my responsibility to ask when something this bad is obvious after a few minutes in the hand.
Sellers pictures.
original s/c thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=106889&hilit=PAM91
I would be "unhappy" too. IMO the seller clearly should take it back and refund your payment.
Ah ha, thought I had seen it elsewhere.
Whilst there are some real heroes on TURF, there have been issues in the past with stuff bought from the odd seller on there (eg. - taffytoons AP), hope this turns out ok.
As regards 'not returnable' - no way given the issues.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Irrelevent...
I sold a watch on here a while back, and the buyer knocked me down on price... When he received it he wasn't happy with the watch.. He couln't put his finger on it, but felt the crystal was wrong.. He took it to an AD and they said it was fine....
But at the end of the day I could tell he wasn't happy... He offered to keep it, but what was the point? He'd never be happy with it.....
The only thing I could do was give a full refund......... Reputation is everything 8)
poor. As said, if he doesn't take it back I feel we should know as I'd not be happy if I were in your shoes.
IMO it boils down to describing the watch accurately - never had any problems ;)Irrelevent...
I sold a watch on here a while back, and the buyer knocked me down on price... When he received it he wasn't happy with the watch.. He couln't put his finger on it, but felt the crystal was wrong.. He took it to an AD and they said it was fine....
But at the end of the day I could tell he wasn't happy... He offered to keep it, but what was the point? He'd never be happy with it.....
The only thing I could do was give a full refund......... Reputation is everything 8)
Totally agree clearly unacceptable behaviour from the seller :evil: Let's hope he has a change of heart and does the right thing ..... Good luck B
That's a nasty case refurb, what on earth happened to the lug to require that much meat off it, my guess is someone without much experience who has just taken a dremel to it!
If he doesn't change his attitude, copy your original posting to all the other forums that he advertised the watch on, then let his potential future customers decide whether they want to deal with the guy.
As has already been said, reputation is everything, especially when we're talking about watches worth thousands.
In my case I felt I had done...And the buyer said I'd described it fairly... I guess he just didn't like it :cry:IMO it boils down to describing the watch accurately - never had any problems ;)Irrelevent...
I sold a watch on here a while back, and the buyer knocked me down on price... When he received it he wasn't happy with the watch.. He couln't put his finger on it, but felt the crystal was wrong.. He took it to an AD and they said it was fine....
But at the end of the day I could tell he wasn't happy... He offered to keep it, but what was the point? He'd never be happy with it.....
The only thing I could do was give a full refund......... Reputation is everything 8)
Have been lucky in the past but of late I'm only prepared to do face to face. Just to many horror story's. Hope this gets resolved.
Let's hope that Eddie's note results in a change of behaviour. If not, then +1 the above.
If ever a sales thread screamed 'buy the seller' it's that one.
12many watches seemed to pick up on somthing eh??If ever a sales thread screamed 'buy the seller' it's that one.
Just noticed he is online lets see if he replies....
SO bad that he should take it back without any protest. I do not think you will be happy with it as it is. Start a dispute if you paid over paypal - and if you paid credit card - try to get your bank involved in a pay back, but if it is too old, then you are bad off.
The seller will of course receive a bed feedback on it - but press him from all sides you possibly can - it is a poorly made finish on the lug to put it mildly - and the seller should know. Tell him he will receive bad feedback and be listed bad guy, but that you are prepared to pay all post/freight - as a compromise - if he pays back
br
But at the end of the day I could tell he wasn't happy... He offered to keep it, but what was the point? He'd never be happy with it.....
The only thing I could do was give a full refund......... Reputation is everything 8)[/quote]
IMO it boils down to describing the watch accurately - never had any problems ;)[/quote]
In my case I felt I had done...And the buyer said I'd described it fairly... I guess he just didn't like it :cry:[/quote]
Are you saying that you sell watches on SC on a "sale or return" basis?
I do hope you get a suitable outcome, the remedial work is obviously severe! I have only ever had superb service off all on here and do hope that it remains that way. Good luck, Craig.
If ever a sales thread screamed 'buy the seller' it's that one.
Absolutely :twisted:
Also, what happened to the "three items per week" rule? That individual posted a listing for six watches, the combined value of which was well in five-figure territory. Regarded as a dealer? Well I think he should be :evil:
Note to the OP: Please do not take any caveat emptor bull$h1t from that guy. Seriously.
Stern
And was jumped on by a number of people - including the buyer. Ah well, that's irony for you.12many watches seemed to pick up on somthing eh??If ever a sales thread screamed 'buy the seller' it's that one.
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