eBay authentication of watches now £1500 and up

Just had the notification.

This is good news, however is this standard across all watches £1500 and up now?

On my site at least I don't seem to see the 'eBay authentication guarantee' badge on all of the listings. So I wonder if it's something the seller can opt out of or if he puts that it's modified etc it doesn't get authenticated.

The service is very good. I sold a watch on Monday evening and was instructed to send it for authentication. It was posted Tuesday morning RMSD and received Wednesday and signed for before I had even got up. I then received an e-mail around 13:00 to say it had passed testing and it was being dispatched to the buyer. The watch was passed to UPS and is currently out for delivery this morning.

This has added one extra day to the process and I was paid by e-bay before I even got to the Post Office.

I noticed that e-bay are lowering the value to watches over £1,500.00 - but I suspect it won’t be long before charges are introduced for this service.

You cannot opt out, it is a compulsory thing if you wish to sell watches over their levels.

But no complaints…

Sounds like it can only be a good thing. Should stop some of the more common scams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner

The service is very good. I sold a watch on Monday evening and was instructed to send it for authentication. It was posted Tuesday morning RMSD and received Wednesday and signed for before I had even got up. I then received an e-mail around 13:00 to say it had passed testing and it was being dispatched to the buyer. The watch was passed to UPS and is currently out for delivery this morning.

This has added one extra day to the process and I was paid by e-bay before I even got to the Post Office.

I noticed that e-bay are lowering the value to watches over £1,500.00 - but I suspect it won’t be long before charges are introduced for this service.

You cannot opt out, it is a compulsory thing if you wish to sell watches over their levels.

But no complaints…

---

I wasn’t as impressed with the service. Timings were fine but I am angled to get an amazing breitling AVI 765 reissue and the ebay card it came with describes the movement as “automatic” when in fact it is a manual.
Really makes you think whether they actually know what they are doing/authenticating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used the service back in December and found it pretty straightforward.

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ee-Odd-address

It also gave me some reassurance the buyer wouldn't claim afterwards that the watch had something wrong with it. Had a phone call from them saying they had lowered it to £1500.

I don't have enough faith in ebay to fully inspect and authenticate the movement of any high value watch. I'm sure there have been a couple of cases where the customer received a frankenwatch

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 25807st

I don't have enough faith in ebay to fully inspect and authenticate the movement of any high value watch. I'm sure there have been a couple of cases where the customer received a frankenwatch

---

Nothing's perfect but the authentication service should surely reduce the likelihood of fakes and frankens getting through.

How are they going to authenticate something like an Original Dreadnaught?

A watch they will never have seen or probably be aware of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ben4watches

How are they going to authenticate something like an Original Dreadnaught?

A watch they will never have seen or probably be aware of.

---

Is anyone knocking out fake Dreadnaughts?
I think it offer some piece of mind for buyers, and if they determine whether the watch is 'as described' then it's also great protection for the seller.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kamakazie!

Is anyone knocking out fake Dreadnaughts?
I think it offer some peace of mind for buyers, and if they determine whether the watch is 'as described' then it's also great protection for the seller.

---

Agreed; the seller knows that he’s not going to be scammed by the buyer and the buyer has some peace of mind that he’s less likely to be sold a fake.

It also raises the opportunity to claim against eBay should the authentication be proved wrong and the watch actually be a fake. It would still be worth booking the watch in for a service on arrival for additional corroboration of its authenticity

I'm assuming to authenticate a watch, they open the back up to check the movement. I'd have concerns about this...if a watch goes back to the manufacturer and the back is opened up, I'd probably expect new seals and a pressure test. I very much doubt eBay does this. How would this effect things like warranties should the buyer end up with water ingress?

I really only want my watches being opened up by the manufacturer or a trusted independent...not some unknown third party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markrlondon

Nothing's perfect but the authentication service should surely reduce the likelihood of fakes and frankens getting through.

---

I agree with this. In a lot of cases they are checking against the listing and they are unlikely to know the specifics of every watch, but if it stops the Gumtree type fake Rolex listings then that has to be a good thing.

I certainly wouldn't rely on it, and would still buy a watch on Ebay exactly the same way that I have been doing, by doing my own due diligence.

But if it takes just 10% of the scammers and fake crap off Ebay, then it has to be a good thing

Selling or buying £1500+ watches is well above my paygrade, but if it wasn't, I'd see the main benefit is to sellers not being scammed by buyers saying its fake, its an empty box, it hasn't arrived etc.

I get quite worried when small mistakes are made like that.

If I see a listing for a top brand, even if it isn't top money, a basic inaccuracy in description puts me right off.

If an authentication service says automatic when its a manual, or vice versa, that does not instil confidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Christian

I'm assuming to authenticate a watch, they open the back up to check the movement. I'd have concerns about this...if a watch goes back to the manufacturer and the back is opened up, I'd probably expect new seals and a pressure test. I very much doubt eBay does this. How would this effect things like warranties should the buyer end up with water ingress?

I really only want my watches being opened up by the manufacturer or a trusted independent...not some unknown third party.

---

I’ve looked into it quite a bit. It’s just an external check of dial, hands, case and an objective look against the description. I.e. any scratches and dents not described. Presumably for the reasons quoted, if seals are worn / torn, the authenticators don’t want to be responsible for replacing them so no movement inspections.

By no means a 100% fool proof mechanism but just a layer of protection, a bit like a steering wheel lock or a house alarm. I think blatant fakes would get picked up but very sophisticated ones may slip through. Still, I think the empty box concern is hopefully solved. I’d say I trust this over and above C24 now. I’ve just bought something eligible for the service and will report back. I’m thinking I might send it for a manufacturer service to be doubly sure but the cost is off putting and I’m not sure if an independent would hold enough weight should I need to raise an issue or concern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

I’ve looked into it quite a bit. It’s just an external check of dial, hands, case and an objective look against the description. I.e. any scratches and dents not described. Presumably for the reasons quoted, if seals are worn / torn, the authenticators don’t want to be responsible for replacing them so no movement inspections.

---

Very interesting. Did you get this direct from the authentication service?

Back in October, ralphy spoke to someone at "eBay's Authenticity Guarantee Department" who confirmed that they were opening the case back, doing movement verification, and pressure testing.

See:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ralphy

I've just had an interesting conversation with a member of eBay's Authenticity Guarantee Department (and quite a WIS he was too).

He confirmed that along with the external visual inspection the process did include movement verification with pressure testing done both before and after the opening of the caseback.

R

---

I wonder if perhaps they've dropped the case back opening after changing to all watches over £1500.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markrlondon

Very interesting. Did you get this direct from the authentication service?

Back in October, ralphy spoke to someone at "eBay's Authenticity Guarantee Department" who confirmed that they were opening the case back, doing movement verification, and pressure testing.

See:


I wonder if perhaps they've dropped the case back opening after changing to all watches over £1500.

---

I haven’t spoken to anyone from eBay but this is a direct quote from their website:

Multi-point inspection
Independent authenticators verify multiple inspection points, including the crown, bezel, dial, case, clasp/buckle, hands, end links, and reference number.

I’ve trawled everywhere too: No mention of movement inspection anywhere on the FAQs, service description etc. maybe they do look inside, but it’s odd that everything they describe is an external check and they make no hint of authenticating the mechanics.

EDIT: The above is incorrect. I did finally speak to someone and they do an internal inspection.

I purchased a watch which passed through the process.

The box had slight damage, not shown in the listing. A little part had broken off and placed carefully inside. Seller said it was perfect when it left, so called eBay. They informed me the whole authentication process was recorded on video and they would investigate. They called back and dodged the issue to be honest, unable to confirm either way.

To save a return the seller refunded a small amount and that was that, but said they were going to take up the matter with eBay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

I haven’t spoken to anyone from eBay but this is a direct quote from their website:

Multi-point inspection
Independent authenticators verify multiple inspection points, including the crown, bezel, dial, case, clasp/buckle, hands, end links, and reference number.

I’ve trawled everywhere too: No mention of movement inspection anywhere on the FAQs, service description etc. maybe they do look inside, but it’s odd that everything they describe is an external check and they make no hint of authenticating the mechanics.

---

Yes, the info in the authentication FAQ back in October was similar to what you have here now. See my own message from October at https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5855863.

All I can say is that ralphy's contact claimed that they do open case backs.

If I was buying or selling a watch on eBay that matches their criteria for doing the authentication I'd try to contact the authentication contractor to confirm. I recall that the authentication is carried out by Stoll & Co. Their US website is at https://www.americaswatchmaker.com/ but I can't find a UK website for them.

However, I did find this job vacancy for a watchmaker for Stoll in Ruislip which includes the text below:
https://blog.esslinger.com/vacancy-f...ker-ruislipha/

Quote:

---

Duties and Responsibilities

· Supporting the head watchmaker with AUTHENTICATING watch movements, components, and external parts.

· Data entry and logistics.

· Handling, examining, detailed inspection of luxury timepieces.

· Pressure testing.

· Bracelet removal.

· Watch case back removal and movement inspection.

· Function and complications testing.

· Gasket replacing.

· Cleaning, high pressure steam cleaning.

· Working towards and achieving departmental targets

· Maintain a high level of work.

Profile

· Ideally holding a horological watchmaking qualification such as WOSTEP / BHI or Swiss watchmaking qualification and training.

· Professional / career level watchmaking experience (Swiss / luxury brand preferable)

· Minimum GCSE level qualifications.

· Commercial awareness.

· Passion for watches / luxury timepieces.

· Able to prioritize and plan.

· Excellent communication and interpersonal skills.

· Able to work flexibly, to embrace change and to work as part of a team.

· You are self- driven, show initiative and enthusiasm.

· Good knowledge of MS office tools.

· Excellent organizational skills, structured approach to work.

· A passion for delivering exceptional service.

· Professional with a high level of appreciation and care for luxury timepieces.

Reporting

Dual reporting –

UK Operations Manager – Day to Day responsibilities.

Head Watchmaker of Authentication for technical support.

Application deadline: 11/08/2021

Expected start date: 31/08/2021

Job Types: Full-time, Permanent

---

(Bold added by me)

The bold text in their job advert doesn't prove anything but it is suggestive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Christian

I'm assuming to authenticate a watch, they open the back up to check the movement. I'd have concerns about this...if a watch goes back to the manufacturer and the back is opened up, I'd probably expect new seals and a pressure test. I very much doubt eBay does this. How would this effect things like warranties should the buyer end up with water ingress?

I really only want my watches being opened up by the manufacturer or a trusted independent...not some unknown third party.

---

I don’t think they do. As I mentioned the authentication card of a hand wound breitling details the movement as automatic…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ar.parask

I don’t think they do. As I mentioned the authentication card of a hand wound breitling details the movement as automatic…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Ah...I guess externals-only are better than nothing and would filter out the basic fakes and empty box scams.

It’s not perfect and it certainly isn’t a Haywood grade of watch verification followed by his team chasing round the City in a Sweeney style car chase in a Mark 3 Cortina after a bunch of wrong’uns trying to sell fake Rolex to the posh knobs in the City.

Hopefully it will stop the obvious fakes being listed and for once on e-bay there is an element of protection for sellers from the scum who instantly start making false claims, parcel not received, not as described etc. if the buyer is unhappy they have to present their case to the authentication team because the watch has already been checked by them, so hopefully will halt the nutters from trying it on.

If I was a buyer of a several grand watch I think I would still stay well clear of e-bay, but as a seller it’s more attractive than it was before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

I’ve just bought something eligible for the service and will report back. I.

---

Well. The authenticator picked up that the box, instruction manual and tags were replicas but made no comment on the watch. I cancelled the purchase based on that but no wiser on whether an internal inspection was done. I’ve asked for more information alongside cancelling the purchase. I’ll update if I hear more.

Update: watch is supposedly genuine. I think I’d risk accepting that if there’s a thorough explanation of the inspection and the seller knocks 80% off. Not likely though! Further updates in time.

What are the charges for this service for sellers or is it still free? I read somewhere that the final value fee goes up to 20% to cover the authentication? What happens when there is a reduced final value fees offer on, does this also apply to listings with authentication?

Also is it possible to opt out?

It's worth noting that the authentication is carried out by a 3rd party not ebay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by watchcollector1

What are the charges for this service for sellers or is it still free? I read somewhere that the final value fee goes up to 20% to cover the authentication? What happens when there is a reduced final value fees offer on, does this also apply to listings with authentication?

Also is it possible to opt out?

It's worth noting that the authentication is carried out by a 3rd party not ebay.

---

It is still free, but for how much longer and what the charges will be, who knows? Not I.
I don't believe it is possible to opt out.
What happens when there is a reduced offer on will be interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

Well. The authenticator picked up that the box, instruction manual and tags were replicas but made no comment on the watch. I cancelled the purchase based on that but no wiser on whether an internal inspection was done. I’ve asked for more information alongside cancelling the purchase. I’ll update if I hear more.

Update: watch is supposedly genuine. I think I’d risk accepting that if there’s a thorough explanation of the inspection and the seller knocks 80% off. Not likely though! Further updates in time.

---

Update: Seller offered me a partial refund of 4%, which doesn’t even cover the cost of the box and extras, let alone the difference in value for a watch without. I’ve politely declined and am arranging a return direct from the authenticator and full refund.

It really is the Wild West on eBay but credit to the authenticator who highlighted a problem and brought about some buyer safeguards.

I was looking at a horribly fake Tudor Sub the other day on Ebay that proudly stated that you could be reassured by the verification process. This Tudor would have failed at a range of 5 metres.
Which made me wonder, has anyone here had any experience of a watch (not the packaging) failing the verification process? What happens? Is it simply sent back to the seller and the monies refunded?
D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

Update: Seller offered me a partial refund of 4%, which doesn’t even cover the cost of the box and extras, let alone the difference in value for a watch without. I’ve politely declined and am arranging a return direct from the authenticator and full refund.

It really is the Wild West on eBay but credit to the authenticator who highlighted a problem and brought about some buyer safeguards.

---

Reassuring it was caught. Which brand was it?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using TZ-UK mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stefmcd

Reassuring it was caught. Which brand was it?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using TZ-UK mobile app

---

Omega

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

I haven’t spoken to anyone from eBay but this is a direct quote from their website:

Multi-point inspection
Independent authenticators verify multiple inspection points, including the crown, bezel, dial, case, clasp/buckle, hands, end links, and reference number.

I’ve trawled everywhere too: No mention of movement inspection anywhere on the FAQs, service description etc. maybe they do look inside, but it’s odd that everything they describe is an external check and they make no hint of authenticating the mechanics.

---

Having now spoken to eBay, it turns out they do take casebacks off, inspect movements, reassemble and pressure test.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

Having now spoken to eBay, it turns out they do take casebacks off, inspect movements, reassemble and pressure test.

---

I wonder do they 'actually' do that, or simply play the odds on claims?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

Having now spoken to eBay, it turns out they do take casebacks off, inspect movements, reassemble and pressure test.

---

I too don’t believe they would do this ,if they did would they pressure test before as well as after because it might not be water tight before?
I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with eBay and I think I would have had more sense from a monkey, as on the previous thread on eBay authenticity I told a story about when I was scammed on the platform I believe that half the times in my communications eBay thought I was the buyer

What happens if you purchase a watch say for example at £1,400 and it turns out to be counterfeit?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barty9

What happens if you purchase a watch say for example at £1,400 and it turns out to be counterfeit?

---

Depends when you find out. I think after 30 days your rights to return for refund are gone.

Best to check these things out as soon as the watch is received.

As much as I like to moan about eBays failures with this authenticity program at £1500 plus the money back guarantee for 30 days of the regular it’s made eBay probably one of the safest places to buy a second hand watch

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

Having now spoken to eBay, it turns out they do take casebacks off, inspect movements, reassemble and pressure test.

---

I doubt that. It would also void the warranty of a relatively new watch… so it takes value away rather than add this way…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackal

I wonder do they 'actually' do that, or simply play the odds on claims?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balance wheel

I too don’t believe they would do this ,if they did would they pressure test before as well as after because it might not be water tight before?
I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with eBay and I think I would have had more sense from a monkey, as on the previous thread on eBay authenticity I told a story about when I was scammed on the platform I believe that half the times in my communications eBay thought I was the buyer

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ar.parask

I doubt that. It would also void the warranty of a relatively new watch… so it takes value away rather than add this way…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

I’m simply reporting back what they told me when I asked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idontgram

I’m simply reporting back what they told me when I asked.

---

I realised that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balance wheel

if they did would they pressure test before as well as after because it might not be water tight before?

---

That is exactly what they claim to do in the quotes from them: Pressure test before opening and again after re-closing.

Deleted as posted twice by accident

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markrlondon

That is exactly what they claim to do in the quotes from them: Pressure test before opening and again after re-closing.

---

When I brought a ploprof through the process before Christmas I never received any mention of the water tightness or any results of such test

Now I see why Facebook marketplace is suddenly awash with fancy watches

Has anybody sold an expensive watch using this service?
Is it foolproof for the usual eBay scams?
How was your experience?

If the watch is lost in postage / courier how is that dealt with?
I guess as a seller you can courier it to Stoll the authenticator and insure it to the max. But what if it is lost then between the authenticator and the buyer?

Edit: I guess you can also specify 'no returns'? (I have seen some watches with have been through the process arriving to the buyer with a sticker on them saying no returns if removed, but assume you can specify no returns no matter what, so that you can be sure a buyer doesn't return you a dud / fake watch for a refund.)

Edit again, I have my answer on the returns question, for anyone elso who may be interested:

You can return an item if the seller accepts returns, as stated in the listing, and the return takes place within the seller’s return window. In the unlikely event that the buyer receives an item that is not consistent with the listing, the item will be eligible for a return. In order for a refund to be processed, all returns must be sent to the authentication partner for verification (to check that the item is still in the same condition and has all relevant accessories, or that the item is not consistent with the listing) and re-authentication before the item is returned to the seller.

I’ll never sell a big money watch on eBay again. They fined me for final value fees after I took a listing down, I still own the watch and could prove it, but they wouldn’t have a bar of it.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmosMoses

I’ll never sell a big money watch on eBay again. They fined me for final value fees after I took a listing down, I still own the watch and could prove it, but they wouldn’t have a bar of it.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

---

Did it sell on ebay and you received funds? What happened?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Onelasttime

Did it sell on ebay and you received funds? What happened?

---

Item didn’t sell, I had messages from a few dodgy buyers trying to get me to sell outside of eBay. I said no and got fed up, removed the listing and then got the fine.

Escalated with their customer service, sent them pictures of the watch with the date numerous times and they wouldn’t budge.

There’s lots of stories of this happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmosMoses

Item didn’t sell, I had messages from a few dodgy buyers trying to get me to sell outside of eBay. I said no and got fed up, removed the listing and then got the fine.

Escalated with their customer service, sent them pictures of the watch with the date numerous times and they wouldn’t budge.

There’s lots of stories of this happening.

---

Ebay put a warning up that you may need to pay fees when you cancel a listing. It’s not specific to watches and applies to anything that has a bid on it at the time of cancellation. No bid, no fee. Has a bid, you pay fees.

Their rules and, as you’ve found, they stick rigidly to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SydR

Ebay put a warning up that you may need to pay fees when you cancel a listing. It’s not specific to watches and apples to anything that has a bid on it at the time of cancellation. No bid, no fee. Has a bid, you pay fees.

---

I didn't know this.

Thanks for sharing =)