When I was looking the Triumphs had a stiffer clutch. Something to look for in your deliberations as they can be tiring in trafficQuote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
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When I was looking the Triumphs had a stiffer clutch. Something to look for in your deliberations as they can be tiring in trafficQuote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
IF you go for a StreetTwin...go for the most basic model available.
Will save a bit of coin, and give you loads of scope to mod it and add a few nice 'goodies' that will personalise it...and make it yours.
A tall seat needn't be a deal breaker -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRFyw57o_Ic
:biggrin-new:
This is just why I warn people off tall trail bikes - apart from the engine braking of a big single.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint-Just
It is fairly easy to slide your bum across the seat when you stop but nothing teaches you like the horror feeling of the bike’s descent overtaking your leg fortunately I didn’t drop that one but easily could have.
I also remember getting my jeans caught on the clutch bleed nipple on a Ducati - fortunately the jeans tore and I didn’t drop a bike 2 days into ownership.
There is a reason bikers wear big boots !
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I didn’t drop my bike during a quite protracted DAS course. Heard all the cautionary tales about how I would drop it at some point once I’d passed.
Didn’t stop me getting a nice shiny bike which I promptly dropped twice in my first month.
First was fairly unavoidable riding towards a section of residential road that suddenly narrowed and became a one-way street in my direction. Car was coming down it which forced me to take a right turn over a brow of a hill with an adverse camber on it. Didn’t carry enough momentum into the turn and promptly came off at 3mph. Bruised ego and a new valve cover were the only prices to pay.
Second time was sat in my garage. Wheeled the bike away from the ground anchor and put it on the stand. Got on and somehow dropped it when taking it off the stand. I was quite tired after some night shifts so learned a second valuable lesson about staying off the bike when tired.
I don’t think you necessarily need to buy a wrecker as your first bike but just keep some money aside (or in my case some valve covers) for when you do drop it. You’ll probs not be able to sleep at night thinking about that scratch on the clutch lever or the gouged bar end.
I’ve fallen off outside the garage when bike was due it’s first MOT :(
I’m putting that down to a diesel or oil spill but bike was perfect when I set off and I was only sat on it to save pushing it out of the parking space.
Didn’t know if to laugh or cry (I cried, like a baby).
I remember being told by a veteran biker when showing them one of my bikes that was oddly parked in the garage “always approach a bike from the sidestand side” it makes good sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnbarker
I don’t remember my low speed drops but definitely had a couple as I was getting used to things and I remember one of my friends dropping an almost brand new 1100 who was a very experienced biker so weight and circumstances can catch anyone out. As I said if my jeans hadn’t torn I would have fallen as I simply couldn’t put my foot down but the bike had gone past the point of no return.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB2
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Ignore me... just adding the Moto Guzzi V7III Carbon to the list. Gorgeous, seemingly very rideable and a seat height of just 770mm. An airhead too :)
http://www.motoguzzi.com/mediaObject...main_image.jpg
So...
Larger engines - all stunning bikes and seemingly not too large or demanding:
Ducati Scrambler Icon
Triumph Street Twin
Yamaha MT-07
Moto Guzzi V7III Carbon
Smaller engines:
Honda CMX500 Rebel (a nice low seat due to the semi-bobber styling)
Honda CB500X (a genuine all-purpose bike)
Honda CB500R (very rideable, and the benchmark in this class)
That Guzzi is really rather tasty.
I might have to have a look at one of them.....
Cheers,
Adam.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Have you dismissed the R9T?
If you're considering modern retros then it is worth a look. Will be easier to service and get parts for than a Moto Guzzi.
Various iterations are available:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...T_in_Paris.jpg
https://motorradblob.blob.core.windo...8e4b74fa53.jpg
I personally think the Urban GS is better looking than any of the bikes on your list so far.
I agree that it's a beautiful bike. However, a 1200cc engine really is over the top for what I want and was originally after, it's relatively large/heavy and the seating position is less upright than those on my shortlist.Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnbarker
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
The GS weighs 20kg more than the Street Twin and with the low seat spec the height is 820mm. The straight R9T low seat is 795mm and the R9T Scrambler low seat is 790mm. As it's a boxer the centre of gravity is pretty low, making it realtively easy to handle around the garage.
Appreciate that you want to get your feet on the ground (as I do) but the GS certainly has an upright riding position given that it is intended to be ridden on and off road.
As others have commented, 1200cc is bigger than your spec but if you take the power delivery into account (low down torque) then it will be within your capabilities to handle. The S1000RR is 998cc for example, but has almost double the power of the R9T unit. I'm not suggesting you get a superbike, but it illustrates the point nicely.
You'll get bored with a 500cc bike pretty quickly - the DAS bikes you'll have learnt on will have more grunt.
Keep an open mind and have a look around.
When do you get started with lessons?
Fair enough, John, and I take your point with regard to seat height (my inside leg is 30.5", by the way, so I do need to be careful in that regard).Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnbarker
I have my CBT tomorrow, and will then go straight into my theory tests. After that, my intention is to book a week of training to follow straight on, followed by the Mod 1 and Mod 2 tests. If I were to pass everything first time (which obviously remains to be seen), I'm hoping that it will be done and dusted within a month. I did ride for quite a few years when I was much younger, albeit nothing larger than a 250. I'm hoping that'll be a bit of a foundation now, as I won't have the nervousness of a complete novice.
Hahahahaaa....banana splits tyres on an urban machine?Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnbarker
Roland Sands must be laughing all the way to the bank.
Good luck with everything. The theory test is very easy. There are practice questions on the DVSA website that you can rehearse the night before.Quote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
The only frustration with the MOD tests is that you need 3 clear working days should you fail one, which will interrupt your plans somewhat if you fail sequentially like I did...
We have the same inside leg, so you certainly wouldn't struggle with the standard R9T. FWIW I had more trouble reaching the ground on the SV650 DAS bike than I do on my own machine.
It’s always worth remembering that you can take an inch or more out of most seats and still maintain comfort of you are on the shorter side
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If you are looking at the MG then I would take a look at a Harley Iron (which has mid controls).
Low seat height and while they are no MT-07, they are surprisingly easy to ride as weight is all low down.
Good luck with the test etc
Short of leg you say? Eureka! :eagerness:
https://classic-motorbikes.net/wp-co...key-bike-1.jpg
I’d agree the R9T variants are better looking than most, but it’s also double the price of some. There is a Guzzi Stone on the GS forum with v low miles for around £6k. How much is an R9.Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnbarker
It all comes down to use. The R9T’s may have a longer life in growth as a rider, if it’s about progressing - but it’s wholly possible most of the choices are going to be absolutely fine for day to day commuting and fun use.
Id also look at the Kawasaki Z900RS, which looks like a very nice option for old school looks, with modern electrics and a decent size tank.
For a bit of balance, I enjoyed taking the 125 to work today :)
Thanks Scott. Not quite as drool-inducing as the others, and a much higher seat as well.
Your comments regarding both price and future need were spot on, by the way.
I’m used to both high and low seats having adventure and sports bikes, but it does make a difference. The old man gave up riding his GS last year (and bought a R1200r LC) as it was getting a little more difficult with his short legs, around 30 inch inseam. But then he is also in his 70’s and still bloody quick!
A bike should be fun first and foremost imo, so just make sure you like the looks, you are comfortable on it, and you are confident handling it around a garage/car park on foot and on the road riding it.
There aren’t that many bad choices if you stick to the established brands - I could have fun on almost any bike :)
You lanky git!Quote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
:eagerness:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyp
I'm 28" inside leg if i stretch a bit and can pretty much flat foot my R1200R and the Hayabusa I had.Quote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
The tallest I've owned was probably the R80ST (similar to the original R80G/S. I tried to ride an R1200GS Adventure TE a couple of weeks ago, but when one toe was on the ground, the other was about 6" off the ground. Which is why I gave that us as a bad job and borrowed the F750 instead.
My dear old departed dad was about 24" inside leg and managed both a K75C low seat model and R65 wtin shock
You can pick a used one up for circa £8.5k. There's an extensive BMW dealer network to back them up too. Is that the same for MG?Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegamanic
I think until Tony actually sits on a bike then this is just a fun speculative exercise as to what might suit his requirements. At the moment all he can go on are aesthetics and specs, but they are not going to mean much once he's settled on something he really wants, and then inevitably the tentative budget will go out of the window. As someone who was in his position 4-5 months ago I can pretty much guarantee that will happen. Look at the loosening of the original requirement for a 300cc bike!
Who knows what the choice would be...
If I didn’t own any bike I’d be looking for around 100-150bhp, but that’s just me and I like to ride quickly on unrestricted roads when possible.
If the R9T was quicker I’d consider one (in fact as an additional bike, I’d love one) - it looks better than my old mans R1200R, but it’s slower. I’d honestly like a 130bhp version of it, and their is no real reason you couldn’t have one, as my 2006 R1200S is putting out that figure with full exhaust and remap with with essentially an older tech bmw twin engine.
Obviously an MX-5 is the right choice, but there are so many really good, and fun, option bikes to choice from.
Bizzarely I have more fun riding a R1200GS around as quickly as possible than I’ve ever had on a sports bike in over 30+ years riding around the TT course. I still wish it had another 30-40bhp though ;)
Well, that's the CBT out the way. Next is to get my theory done and dusted ASAP, and then get booked up for a 5 day course - 3 days of training, MOD 1 on day four and MOD 2 a few days later.
Interestingly, I was talking to a couple of the trainers about the seat height issue, and they got me sitting on two of the test bikes (a Gladius 650, and an SV650). Incredibly, despite looking a bit intimidating they felt fairly small when sitting on them. My feet easily sat flat on the ground on both sides, so that's very, very reassuring in terms of the larger bikes on my test list.
SplendidQuote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
You will find that seat shape will influence your ability to get feet down as much as seat height.Quote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
Now, I've been thinking... To help you, how about you delay the buying process for a few months and go along to the bike show at the NEC in November? You can jump on and off as many bikes as you like to see which fit, which are comfortable etc.
And if you say when you're going, about 20 of us can turn up, shout "no!" a lot and direct you towards increasingly inappropriate bikes... ("Unless you sit on the Ninja H2 you'll not be sure it's not for you" etc)
Actually, that's quite an intriguing idea, and could also be a lot of fun :eagerness:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyp
Let me dwell on it (and thanks for the suggestion).
This could be fun :D
There is Ally Pally at the end of Sept tooQuote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
http://www.mcnallypallyshow.co.uk
Steve
You have to bear in mind with Japanese bikes the average height (and weight for factory suspension settings) of the Japanese Men they are designed for, you should be fine Tony, you're probably over average height in Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by learningtofly
Do they make motorbikes in Papua New Guinea? :la:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard
Well, FWIW my preferences are down to two bikes, now I know how easy they'll be to flat-foot.
Speed Twin...
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...bc5ZSMM-XL.jpg
and Scrambler Icon
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...NW8M7Sq-XL.jpg
While I'm going through the test process I'll find some local dealers so I can have a sit on them and see how they compare.
Come on The Scramber, were in the final, hahaha
Is the Ducati Monster seat height too high for you Tony as that's a great all rounder too?
William Hill have just shortened the odds on you buying a Street Twin!
No, it's fine, but I just prefer a more retro shape and style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard
Quote:
Originally Posted by awright101
Haha :biggrin-new:Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry
On average, how much does a bike seat lower by once you sit on it? Can you adjust the suspension to lower it a bit as well?
My first big bike was a BMW f800r.
It ticks all the boxes and is ugly in a beautiful way.
ABS, enough power to scare but be manageable and lots of mod cons available if you need them.
Out of those two I'd choose the Triumph, plenty of dealers and no hassle with servicing and maintainance. The Dukes are fantastic machines but in my experience they need to garaged to maintain the finish. My mate had a Diavel carbon white that lived outside over one winter and the diamond cut wheels started degrading, the anodised finish on some panels started to blister and it developed a dashboard fault where all the warning lights came on and the tank showed empty at random times. Went back to the dealer 4 times and they could never bottom it out so he px'd it for an S1000R.
The Triumph is definitely the favourite at the moment, and there's a dealer in Hemel (close to me) that I'll be popping over to on Friday.
Anyway, this is interesting. It seems that the engine is actually capable of pushing that on the T120 close but Triumph have fitted a restrictor camshaft to keep the power down. If you stick with the video you'll see that fitting the replacement camshaft transforms the bike (increasing the horsepower across the range), so if I ever felt I wanted a bit more ooomph it's good to know there's something that can be done about it without changing the bike.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyp
Being able to get both feet down is obviously nice to be able to do, but it’s far from essential, especially once you have a bit of experience. I manage with just one foot down (and that’s not flat), but I do take care how I park re sloping ground.
There is no question in my mind that the Ducati is the better looking bike, probably rides a lot better too, and the fittings are probably higher quality. That’s said as we have a Triumph triple in the garage, and a couple of friends have the Ducati Scramblers.
I would guess servicing costs of the Ducati would be higher, but I’m not sure there is going to be much difference in overall running costs.
For that style of bike, I’d buy the BMW - just much better finished with a much more flexible engine - plus loads of aftermarket options to customise to your heart content - and doing your own servicing (maybe with the exception of the ABS) is a fairly simply process for someone able to change a watch strap or size a bracelet ;)
Actually, Scott, most of the reviews I’ve read or watch suggest that the fittings on the Triumph are superb, and that the ride is probably the better of the two. Given that it barks back the bikes my friends road when I was a yoof there’s an emotional attachment two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegamanic
That said, they’re both beautiful and neither could possibly be a mistake. That said, I’ll have another look at the BMW options.
Edit: Looked again. There's no way I'm gong straight onto a 1200cc bike (and doubt I ever will), and I don't like them as much anyway.
Tony, please continue to browse all the bikes that fit your aesthetic requirements but by all means DO NOT make your mind up. On any. Don’t even discard the marginal ones.
As a previous poster stated, 2 feet flat down is reassuring but not compulsory, and a wide saddle at the right height and you’ll still struggle with the 2 feet flat down.
But more importantly a motorcycle is first and foremost a ride; since you seem set on the riding position/style you want, the engine will make the difference.
You will be amazed at the difference in character between the different engines. Some may feel bland, others can be smooth or brutal.
This is what will guide you in the end. So don’t commit before having ridden the whole shortlist.
Noted and completely understood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint-Just
Not forgetting that with more and more bikes coming with selectable engine modes, it's possible that the same bike could feel any of bland, smooth or brutal depending on the setting you choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint-Just