Spring Drive Accuracy Seiko not Grand Seiko

Had this watch a few weeks now, it’s a limited edition of 400, already made a few waves on YouTube, and hopefully for me well at least not lose too much eventually.
I’ve taken it off the bracelet, partly to preserve that in mint condition, and partly because it actually looks stunning to me on this strap.
But the most amazing thing to see is the incredible accuracy and also build quality, I’ve had Grand Seiko.. and this is up there with the build.
The movement has a mesmerising effect on me, so much so that I may offload the bulk of my automatics in order to possibly purchase a diver.
Is this level of accuracy normal for these watches?
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That doesn't surprise me given the nature of the SD - what's the movement calibre in it?

It's my favourite movement: mesmerising to watch, silent and incredibly accurate.

I'd expect nothing less for a quartz watch. :wink-new:

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Originally Posted by Frantastic

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Is this level of accuracy normal for these watches?

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Yes. Seiko make their own crystals and the best (pre-aged and more stable) are put in the spring drives. It doesn't matter if Seiko or Grand Seiko. The spring drive have their own niche in terms of movement. Spring drives deliver less than 10secs per year but Seiko will never claim that.

Jan 6th seems to be a strange anomaly, which I would have expected.

Every spring drive I’ve owned had fantastic accuracy, and around 1-3 seconds a month.

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Originally Posted by Neil.C

I'd expect nothing less for a quartz watch. :wink-new:

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It just shows that the choice of good crystals is better than thermo-compensation.

It never fails to surprise me that people can still be thinking that the spring drive is anything but a quartz.

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January the 6th was me taking the photo incorrectly!! I didnt line up the markers.. but it hasnt messed too much with the stats


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Originally Posted by hughtrimble

That doesn't surprise me given the nature of the SD - what's the movement calibre in it?

It's my favourite movement: mesmerising to watch, silent and incredibly accurate.

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Its the 5R66 movement..its made my Rolex
Look jittery, I can actually see the 8 steps now when I look at it..


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What app are you using to time it, out of interest?

Its called Twixt on the app store on IOS


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Originally Posted by Frantastic

Its called Twixt on the app store on IOS


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Thanks, however seems its not available on Android - shame.

Nice watch by the way!

I’ve had three spring drives, two GS and one Seiko. The first two I had (an MM600 and a GS Diver) were amazingly accurate. I honestly couldn’t tell after a month or so whether they were gaining or losing. My most recent one (GS Snowflake) gains a couple of seconds a week.

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Originally Posted by Frantastic

Its the 5R66 movement..its made my Rolex
Look jittery, I can actually see the 8 steps now when I look at it..


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You’ve got better eyes than me! Every spring drive I’ve seen has a totally smooth second hand.

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Originally Posted by abraxas

It just shows that the choice of good crystals is better than thermo-compensation.

It never fails to surprise me that people can still be thinking that the spring drive is anything but a quartz.

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I’m not convinced on the quartz being more important than the compensation. Their newer GS spring drive also incorporates Thermo compensation. The thermo compensated movements have much better stated accuracy than Seiko’s deemed standard. Whilst I’ve never had a spring drive anywhere near the outside of their specs of 15 secs a month, or 6 seconds for their top of the range.

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Originally Posted by abraxas

It just shows that the choice of good crystals is better than thermo-compensation.

It never fails to surprise me that people can still be thinking that the spring drive is anything but a quartz.

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I think this comes down to how we label regulation types. A battery/solar powered watch is usually referred to as being 'quartz' as that's what regulates them however we don't say 'escapement' or 'mechanical' when referring to non-battery/solar watches. They're referred to as being automatics or hand winds, therefore people can be forgiven for referring to Spring Drives as 'automatics' as they have rotors and they store their power mechanically.

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Originally Posted by CardShark

I think this comes down to how we label regulation types. A battery/solar powered watch is usually referred to as being 'quartz' as that's what regulates them however we don't say 'escapement' or 'mechanical' when referring to non-battery/solar watches. They're referred to as being automatics or hand winds, therefore people can be forgiven for referring to Spring Drives as 'automatics' as they have rotors and they store their power mechanically.

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Kinetics also have rotors, but they are not classed as automatics. Seiko had tried for years to ""hide"" the quartz element of spring drive... as people wouldn't pay the asking money for quartz. Anything with quartz in it... is quartz. Try taking the quartz reference out of it and see how far it goes.

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Originally Posted by Murdoc

You’ve got better eyes than me! Every spring drive I’ve seen has a totally smooth second hand.

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I meant the Rolex ...the spring drive is what made me notice it...sorry for the confusion

I've been inspired to check this one and it's gained 8 seconds in approx 6 months. It's also quite a good activity tracker!

https://i.postimg.cc/HLd6scxW/IMG-4051.jpg

The Sbdb001 MM600 I had, one of my favourite Seiko’s was about +/- 1.5 seconds a month.

That's about right for accuracy, in my experience.

https://i.imgur.com/ldag6vt.jpg

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Originally Posted by abraxas

Kinetics also have rotors, but they are not classed as automatics. Seiko had tried for years to ""hide"" the quartz element of spring drive... as people wouldn't pay the asking money for quartz. Anything with quartz in it... is quartz. Try taking the quartz reference out of it and see how far it goes.

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This is of course all true.

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Originally Posted by Neil.C

This is of course all true.

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The way I see it is, a manufacturer has combined the best of both worlds, the movement was incredibly difficult to design and manufacture with consistency. It isn’t a pure quartz, as the great train and escapement does not move back and forth, or step at all, it is a continuous movement regulated by a electro magnetic brake, this in itself sets it apart from every other movement in modern day watchmaking. No other manufacturer has anything even remotely similar, that can’t be said in reality for any other movement.. quartz is the regulator , personally I think it’s an incredible piece of engineering..


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A while back there was a WuS thread discussing Spring Drive accuracy referencing a YouTube video that seemed to indicate that Seiko regulate their SDs to +0.2spd. Even wearing mine far less than the 12h per day recommended to obtain the stated accuracy of HAQ models, it runs at about +4spm. Judging from owners' reported experience, if worn regularly, SDs seem to run at levels close to HAQ, bearing no relation whatsoever to Seiko's stated accuracy of +/-15spm.

It'll be interesting to see whether the new thermoregulated movements manage to close the gap to true HAQ even further.

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Originally Posted by Frantastic

The way I see it is, a manufacturer has combined the best of both worlds, the movement was incredibly difficult to design and manufacture with consistency. It isn’t a pure quartz, as the great train and escapement does not move back and forth, or step at all, it is a continuous movement regulated by a electro magnetic brake, this in itself sets it apart from every other movement in modern day watchmaking. No other manufacturer has anything even remotely similar, that can’t be said in reality for any other movement.. quartz is the regulator , personally I think it’s an incredible piece of engineering..

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The word I would use is "hybrid". Half machine and half electrics. I would describe it as an electronically (as in quartz) controlled mechanism. Yes it was fancy 20 years ago. Now it is just obvious. If you love them, buy them.

Is there any doubt that the quartz part of the ‘hybrid’ mechanism is what is driving the accuracy? I quite like the SD technology and think it is a great advance but certainly like to maintain the perspective when discussing accuracy.

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Originally Posted by RAJEN

Is there any doubt that the quartz part of the ‘hybrid’ mechanism is what is driving the accuracy? I quite like the SD technology and think it is a great advance but certainly like to maintain the perspective when discussing accuracy.

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No doubt at all that it is quartz that is setting the accuracy.

Personally I think spring drive is an interesting but expensive white elephant in as much as a decent quartz will give you accuracy to 1-2 seconds per month and a decent mechanical to a few seconds per day.

Better accuracy thank any(?) traditional mechanical watch with no need for a battery.
Odd for it to be considered as anything other than a step forward just because it uses a crystal.

Spring drive are way too expensive to be useful in any way. The only one I have ever seen used was the Spacewalk that was carried by some rich bloke on his round trip to the International Space Station. If Seiko kept them cheap they could have revolutionised the quartz market. As it is... meh. The hi-beats are better investments.

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Originally Posted by abraxas

Spring drive are way too expensive to be useful in any way. The only one I have ever seen used was the Spacewalk that was carried by some rich bloke on his round trip to the International Space Station. If Seiko kept them cheap they could have revolutionised the quartz market. As it is... meh. The hi-beats are better investments.

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I've steered clear of HBs - isn't the servicing interval (understandably) very short given the greatly increased wear brought about by its very nature?

Personally, SD all the way for me. Best of both worlds.