advice on Submariner 14060M

Printable View

12th March 2021, 08:50
bitt3n

advice on Submariner 14060M

I'm currently local to this watch in Tbilisi and might be able to wangle a deal on it face-to-face.

The pearl is cracked, there are some scratches, it comes without box or papers, and has probably never been serviced, but I could inspect it in person. The seller seems to have a decent history. However I'm not 100% convinced I would take to wearing it long term. I'm hoping those more knowledgeable of Rolex than I could advise on whether there are any obvious red flags given the photos and, given the model/condition and a negotiated price of something close to £5500, I am likely to take a bath on it if I end up selling it in a year or two.
12th March 2021, 08:58
Sinnlover

If genuine (I know nothing about them but eBay is a den of thieves) if you were to get it for £5500 get serviced by Rolex it would till be cheap.
Is it too cheap? As I say I know nothing about them.
12th March 2021, 09:15
Dave+63

If it’s genuine (and at that price I’d be dubious), you’d be looking at a little over £6k for a newly serviced 14060 which is a bargain.

You’d certainly not be taking a bath on it if you decided to sell it on later.

At £5.5k though, I’d get an expert to make absolutely sure it’s genuine.
12th March 2021, 09:37
MartynJC (UK)

Just based on low price - I’d walk.
12th March 2021, 10:00
bitt3n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave+63

If it’s genuine (and at that price I’d be dubious), you’d be looking at a little over £6k for a newly serviced 14060 which is a bargain.

You’d certainly not be taking a bath on it if you decided to sell it on later.

At £5.5k though, I’d get an expert to make absolutely sure it’s genuine.

The eBay price is in line with similar listings, but a local sale would eliminate the eBay/Paypal transaction costs (and the risk of buyer fraud), so given that they're open to offers I think it's not unlikely I could get close to that price. However I would not consider myself capable of recognizing a high-quality fake, or non-obvious mechanical/cosmetic problems.
12th March 2021, 10:45
MartynJC (UK)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitt3n

The eBay price is in line with similar listings, but a local sale would eliminate the eBay/Paypal transaction costs (and the risk of buyer fraud), so given that they're open to offers I think it's not unlikely I could get close to that price. However I would not consider myself capable of recognizing a high-quality fake, or non-obvious mechanical/cosmetic problems.

If you’re happy handing over something like $5k in cash outside of the eBay/PayPal protection scheme - for an item you are not sure about...
12th March 2021, 11:02
bitt3n

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK)

If you’re happy handing over something like $5k in cash outside of the eBay/PayPal protection scheme - for an item you are not sure about...

The only reason I'd consider it is the fact that I'd be able to examine it in person prior to purchase. I suppose one thing I could do is make the deal contingent upon having the watch authenticated by an authorized dealer prior to the transaction, assuming it's possible to find one willing to cooperate.

I sympathize with the general inclination toward wariness.
12th March 2021, 17:02
zen123

Below is something I got from a quick search

REHAUT RRR

2008 – 2010
Serial Z, M,V,G, random
14060M
Calibre 3130
Lug Holes
Superluminova Dial
Introduced: Four Line "Chronometer Certified" Dial (shipped primarily to US market)
SWISS MADE
Slim Four Bezel
93150 Bracelet
Introduced: Personalised Rehaut RRR
12th March 2021, 17:49
higham5

I could be completely wrong but the description of the seller doesnt ring true to me. They state its a 2007 model from 2008 the last year of the 14060m . That is clearly wrong, the 4 liner was the last of 14060m range and the random serial no was introduced in 2011 see below.
A 2007 watch should be M serial number. Later in the advert they state its a V serial number , that could be correct.

I only suggest this as mine is a 2011 purchase and is a random serial number.
F 2003 (Sep)
D 2005 (Apr)
Z 2006 (May)
M 2007 (Aug)
V 2008 (Aug)
G 2010 (July)
G 2011 On and random. ( data taken from the Rolex Forums)

Steve
12th March 2021, 21:08
M1011

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitt3n

The only reason I'd consider it is the fact that I'd be able to examine it in person prior to purchase. I suppose one thing I could do is make the deal contingent upon having the watch authenticated by an authorized dealer prior to the transaction, assuming it's possible to find one willing to cooperate.

I sympathize with the general inclination toward wariness.

What are you expecting the AD to do? The salesperson probably didn't even work there when these were in the catalogue, and they certainly won't be giving you your money back if the deal goes south.

If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't risk this as I wouldn't be comfortable authenticating it. Fakes are everywhere.
12th March 2021, 21:28
MartynJC (UK)

This points to a 2009 watch (not 2007)

it says the serial is V6xxxx which makes it 2009 see refs below,
RR was introduced between 2008-2010.
However from 2007 onward 14060M were chronometer certified and this was added to the dial (4 liner) - world wide.

https://www.miltonsdiamonds.com/news...brief-history/
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-serial-numbers

The 14060M was in production between in 2002-2012 (not as stated in the advert finishing in 2008)

Because of inaccuracies I would stay away - you may find a low grade movement inside it - there are too many replica watches out there.

Why not buy from a reputable dealer instead if you are unsure how to spot a fake?
12th March 2021, 23:34
bitt3n

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1011

What are you expecting the AD to do?

I'm assuming, based on what I've read, that a subset of Rolex dealers will be able to tell me if a Rolex watch is genuine, albeit perhaps for a fee. Is this a misunderstanding?

I expect it would need a service, so that isn't something I would ask an AD to determine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK)

This points to a 2009 watch (not 2007)

it says the serial is V6xxxx which makes it 2009 see refs below,
RR was introduced between 2008-2010.
However from 2007 onward 14060M were chronometer certified and this was added to the dial (4 liner) - world wide.

https://www.miltonsdiamonds.com/news...brief-history/
https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-serial-numbers

The 14060M was in production between in 2002-2012 (not as stated in the advert finishing in 2008)

Because of inaccuracies I would stay away - you may find a low grade movement inside it - there are too many replica watches out there.

Why not buy from a reputable dealer instead if you are unsure how to spot a fake?

Thanks that's useful information.

I'm not convinced I'd take to wearing a Submariner, and if I buy at the price of an established dealer I'm liable to a significant loss if I change my mind in a year or two. This looks like it might be a way to try one out without exposing myself to taking a massive hit to the pocketbook in such a case, but perhaps it's a bad idea.
12th March 2021, 23:46
M1011

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitt3n

I'm assuming, based on what I've read, that a subset of Rolex dealers will be able to tell me if a Rolex watch is genuine, albeit perhaps for a fee. Is this a misunderstanding?

I expect it would need a service, so that isn't something I would ask an AD to determine.

I don't believe that is a service they will offer, nor as mentioned would I feel comfortable in the AD to authenticate it to be perfectly honest. Happy to be corrected if someone knows better.

The Rolex service centre will certainly call it out as fake if it crosses their doors, but by that point you're out of pocket.
13th March 2021, 00:32
MartynJC (UK)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitt3n

I'm assuming, based on what I've read, that a subset of Rolex dealers will be able to tell me if a Rolex watch is genuine, albeit perhaps for a fee. Is this a misunderstanding?

I expect it would need a service, so that isn't something I would ask an AD to determine.

Thanks that's useful information.

I'm not convinced I'd take to wearing a Submariner, and if I buy at the price of an established dealer I'm liable to a significant loss if I change my mind in a year or two. This looks like it might be a way to try one out without exposing myself to taking a massive hit to the pocketbook in such a case, but perhaps it's a bad idea.

If you’re not sure about the actual Sub - you could try one of the many “look alike” versions - that can be had for a few hundred quid - they are the same shape and style. “Homages”.
13th March 2021, 00:37
Onelasttime

The seller is asking £6800 so why does the OP think he can get it for £5500?

It all sounds wrong to me.
13th March 2021, 07:19
bitt3n

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1011

The Rolex service centre will certainly call it out as fake if it crosses their doors, but by that point you're out of pocket.

It sounds like even if I had PayPal protection authenticity would remain an issue, since I wouldn't find out during the return period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onelasttime

The seller is asking £6800 so why does the OP think he can get it for £5500?

It all sounds wrong to me.

I am actually in Tbilisi, and thus can walk in the door and pay cash. eBay/Paypal adds 10% to their costs and it's a best offer listing at a fairly optimistic valuation for a used model in so-so condition with no box/papers.

That said, I tend to agree with the general sentiment that following up on the idea appears to be more trouble than it's worth.
13th March 2021, 08:27
Dave+63

advice on Submariner 14060M

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitt3n

I'm not convinced I'd take to wearing a Submariner, and if I buy at the price of an established dealer I'm liable to a significant loss if I change my mind in a year or two. This looks like it might be a way to try one out without exposing myself to taking a massive hit to the pocketbook in such a case, but perhaps it's a bad idea.

Most people who own a Rolex for two years or more, tend to see an uplift in value so your potential loss from buying from a dealer and selling in two years time would be minimal.

Your potential loss if you end up buying a fake would be 100% of the price you paid!
13th March 2021, 17:42
Halitosis

As the saying goes, "buy the seller". Nothing to lose going to visit and view the watch, and you'll likely get a good steer on whether the seller is genuine or not. Worst case scenario, you choose not to buy, but at least you won't then spend a long time wondering about it.
Also any seller that invites the transaction at their own address is a good sign of faith - if they know they're ripping the buyer off they can expect a visit from the police or at minimum some broken windows.
Go see it (just don't take the cash with you on the first visit!)
16th March 2021, 22:16
thirdeg

It is on for £6800 why do you think they would knock another 20% off a good price?
16th March 2021, 23:44
wileeeeeey

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirdeg

It is on for £6800 why do you think they would knock another 20% off a good price?

Post #16
17th March 2021, 00:03
JPCain86

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitt3n

It sounds like even if I had PayPal protection authenticity would remain an issue, since I wouldn't find out during the return period.

I am actually in Tbilisi, and thus can walk in the door and pay cash. eBay/Paypal adds 10% to their costs and it's a best offer listing at a fairly optimistic valuation for a used model in so-so condition with no box/papers.

That said, I tend to agree with the general sentiment that following up on the idea appears to be more trouble than it's worth.

The 10% is capped at £270 and that's on the basis that it has been listed as a private seller with no offers. To assume ebay fees is 10% on all sales is wrong.
17th March 2021, 14:12
bitt3n

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPCain86

The 10% is capped at £270 and that's on the basis that it has been listed as a private seller with no offers. To assume ebay fees is 10% on all sales is wrong.

The watch is listed on ebay.com, where the fee is 10% max $750, with an additional Paypal fee of between 3-4%, which pushes total fees over 10% of the stated price. Am I misunderstanding something?