Rolex Service rant

Happy Friday all. I’ve not posted in a while, as life seems to have gotten in the way of my hobby of late.

Yesterday I received my late ‘70s Oysterquartz ref:17000 back from Rolex service. Having worn it for 24 hours I’ve noticed that RSC has replaced the vintage date disc to a new one. Gone are the beautiful “open” sixes and nines. When I booked this watch in for service I was pretty clear in explaining to my AD that I did not want the vintage aspects (dial and hands etc.) touched- and I had to fight RSC pretty hard on this. Nowhere in their repair estimate was any mention of a new date disc.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Thankfully my Oysterquartz is not a valuable vintage piece, but nonetheless it annoys me that Rolex seems to decide what THEY want to do with MY watch. This may seem trifling, but when you’ve just forked out 650 quid and you don’t get what you want, it’s irksome. I imagine sourcing a retrofitting a vintage date disc is possible, but what a pain!

I have called the AD in the hope that something can be done about this. I expect not.

For those considering getting a vintage watch serviced at RSC - a cautionary tale.

Thanks and wishing everyone a good weekend ahead.


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That's not good, but I think you are well and truly Donald Ducked.

Never send a vintage piece back to the manufacturer, asking for trouble.

I have used an accredited independent several times and they were great, a chat with the guy actually doing the work before sending it in rather than it ending up on some 'turn it back into brand new' production line.

Same with vintage Omega, Simon Freese rather than Omega.

I had a similar experience recently and after a lot of back and forth I got a satisfactory outcome.

Feel free to pm me for more info.


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Are you sure your instructions got to RSC. They always provide an estimate of work before hand...did you get that?

I reckon it’s the shop you’ve used that’s at fault. I’ve found dealing directly with RSC to be very smooth.

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Originally Posted by dougair

Are you sure your instructions got to RSC. They always provide an estimate of work before hand...did you get that?

I reckon it’s the shop you’ve used that’s at fault. I’ve found dealing directly with RSC to be very smooth.

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Yes they did get the instructions. In the end I physically went into Rolex SJS before Lockdown 2, as I was in the neighbourhood, to persuade them not to change the dial and hands. The AD hadn’t been able to convince them. I saw all the paperwork sent by Rolex to the AD.


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Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner

That's not good, but I think you are well and truly Donald Ducked.

Never send a vintage piece back to the manufacturer, asking for trouble.

I have used an accredited independent several times and they were great, a chat with the guy actually doing the work before sending it in rather than it ending up on some 'turn it back into brand new' production line.

Same with vintage Omega, Simon Freese rather than Omega.

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Sadly I think that’s right. As I didn’t have papers for my OQ, I wanted it Rolex serviced. In future I won’t go down this road again.


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Originally Posted by Euan Begbie

I had a similar experience recently and after a lot of back and forth I got a satisfactory outcome.

Feel free to pm me for more info.


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Thanks - I’ll PM you now.


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Why does Rolex do this (ignoring the owner’s wishes)?

Rolex hasn’t bought the watch, the OP has. But Rolex is behaving as if it’s the owner, not the service provider!

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Why does Rolex do this (ignoring the owner’s wishes)?

Rolex hasn’t bought the watch, the OP has. But Rolex is behaving as if it’s the owner, not the service provider!

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In order to guarantee their work, they insist on new parts.

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Originally Posted by ach5

In order to guarantee their work, they insist on new parts.

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I even waived the guarantee for any issues created by the dial and hands!!!!


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This is exactly the reason my 16750 has not gone back to Rolex, but it needs looking at, and I want it left original. Unfortunately, Duncan won’t work on this model. Maybe I need to speak to someone close to Rocco and see if he would be willing to look at it?

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Why does Rolex do this (ignoring the owner’s wishes)?

Rolex hasn’t bought the watch, the OP has. But Rolex is behaving as if it’s the owner, not the service provider!

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Perhaps Rolex have adopted Patek's marketing spiel so that you never actually own a Rolex anymore.....

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Originally Posted by Omegamanic

This is exactly the reason my 16750 has not gone back to Rolex, but it needs looking at, and I want it left original. Unfortunately, Duncan won’t work on this model. Maybe I need to speak to someone close to Rocco and see if he would be willing to look at it?

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Have you considered Steven Hale?

https://www.shwr.co.uk/

That is where I have just sent my matte 16750.

My view and Im happy to be shot down is Rolex cannot and doesn't want to become a boutique service dept. They will have a standard procedure that details the steps and procedures on receiving a watch for service. Yes vintage collectors want to maintain patina and provenance , but if that gets in the way of disassembly and assembly checks then Rolex will revert to SOP.

I would summise that by adhering to the SOP for each watch they will know with confidence the return rate for after service defects is negligible. After service returns will be a KPI or measure of success for the service dept.

For every WIS who like the OP is clearly unhappy that parts have been swapped out there will be a ( probably larger) group who exclaim in delight “ the watch came back looking like new”.

I feel the only area of accommodation is on polishing. Since at this stage the watch is already fully assembled and any tests for WR security etc will have been passed. As polishing apart from return packaging is the last process they maybe some latitude for the customer to express a preference.

As others have said above, independents seem the best option until you get certain models eg SD43’s where parts are strictly controlled reducing the pool of folk willing to work on these pieces.

All of the above is of no consolation to the OP , just my opinion on how Rolex and probably the other majors work.

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Originally Posted by higham5

For every WIS who like the OP is clearly unhappy that parts have been swapped out there will be a ( probably larger) group who exclaim in delight “ the watch came back looking like new”.

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Couldn't agree more - I'm sure a big majority of watch owners are more than happy have a watch that looks like new after a service (and that 'big majority' will go up to 100% of the ones that threw away the B&P after purchase!)

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Originally Posted by JonRA

Couldn't agree more - I'm sure a big majority of watch owners are more than happy have a watch that looks like new after a service (and that 'big majority' will go up to 100% of the ones that threw away the B&P after purchase!)

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Well, yes, that's undoubtedly true. BUT they had specific instructions not to change something, on something which is the customer's possession, which I don't find acceptable. Its their perogative not to perform the work according, but they have to inform the customer of this in advance, where the owner can decide on alternative solutions. I think the OP could claim for damages, as Rolex have damaged the OP's enjoyment of the watch, by ignoring specific instructions.
An alternative example - if you owned an pukka artwork and you gave it to me for cleaning, restoration or whatever, and I decided that the original painting was terrible so decided to scrape part of it off and paint my own 'improved' version, you'd be livid, and the artwork would be worth a fraction of its original value. Its the same idea.

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Originally Posted by MrGrumpy

Well, yes, that's undoubtedly true. BUT they had specific instructions not to change something, on something which is the customer's possession, which I don't find acceptable. Its their perogative not to perform the work according, but they have to inform the customer of this in advance, where the owner can decide on alternative solutions. I think the OP could claim for damages, as Rolex have damaged the OP's enjoyment of the watch, by ignoring specific instructions.
An alternative example - if you owned an pukka artwork and you gave it to me for cleaning, restoration or whatever, and I decided that the original painting was terrible so decided to scrape part of it off and paint my own 'improved' version, you'd be livid, and the artwork would be worth a fraction of its original value. Its the same idea.

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Totally agree - I wasn't implying that it was right what they did, just noting that most people would be pleased to have a new looking watch because they wouldn't be bothered about maintaining originality. But when you are, your wishes should be respected.

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Originally Posted by MrGrumpy

Well, yes, that's undoubtedly true. BUT they had specific instructions not to change something, on something which is the customer's possession, which I don't find acceptable. Its their perogative not to perform the work according, but they have to inform the customer of this in advance, where the owner can decide on alternative solutions. I think the OP could claim for damages, as Rolex have damaged the OP's enjoyment of the watch, by ignoring specific instructions.
An alternative example - if you owned an pukka artwork and you gave it to me for cleaning, restoration or whatever, and I decided that the original painting was terrible so decided to scrape part of it off and paint my own 'improved' version, you'd be livid, and the artwork would be worth a fraction of its original value. Its the same idea.

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My feelings exactly. They give me a list of proposed repairs - I tell them what I want, and they carry out the repairs. Nothing boutique about that. I can do that with most service providers.


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I was pretty clear in explaining to my AD that I did not want the vintage aspects (dial and hands etc.) touched

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You say “dial, hands etc” but you stop short of clarifying whether you said date disc. Did you specifically say no date-disc change and get confirmation back? Sounds like they might be just taking your direct instructions if you didn’t, otherwise it comes down to individual interpretation where “vintage aspects” stop.

Not sure I can jump on the Rolex-service-hating bandwagon here. It reads like you knew what you were dealing with and the risks prior to service, but needed Rolex paperwork so went ahead anyway.

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Originally Posted by Christian

You say “dial, hands etc� but you stop short of clarifying whether you said date disc. Did you specifically say no date-disc change and get confirmation back? Sounds like they might be just taking your direct instructions if you didn’t, otherwise it comes down to individual interpretation where “vintage aspects� stop.

Not sure I can jump on the Rolex-service-hating bandwagon here. It reads like you knew what you were dealing with and the risks prior to service, but needed Rolex paperwork so went ahead anyway.

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It’s a fair question. There was no itemisation of the date disc replacement by Rolex following their initial assessment of the watch. They did mention the glass, dial, hands and crown. For this reason, I didn’t specify that I would like to preserve the original date disc.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christian

You say “dial, hands etc� but you stop short of clarifying whether you said date disc. Did you specifically say no date-disc change and get confirmation back? Sounds like they might be just taking your direct instructions if you didn’t, otherwise it comes down to individual interpretation where “vintage aspects� stop.

Not sure I can jump on the Rolex-service-hating bandwagon here. It reads like you knew what you were dealing with and the risks prior to service, but needed Rolex paperwork so went ahead anyway.

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You will also see from this that I approached this with caution having sought the advice from TZ.

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-advice-needed


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Amidst the general condemnation of Rolex SC for replacing the date disc, no- one has questioned why it needed replacement?

Date wheel teeth get damaged and worn, and Rolex policy is to replace any part that’s showing wear. An independent may use judgement and discretion, especially if the owner wishes to keep the original and accepts tge rusk ofit deteriorating further and causing the watch to not run.

Personally, I couldn't get too excited about the minor detail of the date wheel numerals, the open 6 and 9 always seems like a load if crap to me, I really can’t see how it matters. What does matter is having a date wheel in good condition, faulty datewheels stop watches from running, I’ve had to carefully re-profile damaged teeth to cure such faults on vintage watches where a replacement wheel can’t be sourced and I would much rather fit a new replacement!

Strongly advise the OP to enjoy the watch and forget about it, I have an extensive collection of vintage Omegas and they’ve all had parts replaced at some point.......for good reasons!

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Amidst the general condemnation of Rolex SC for replacing the date disc, no- one has questioned why it needed replacement?

Date wheel teeth get damaged and worn, and Rolex policy is to replace any part that’s showing wear. An independent may use judgement and discretion, especially if the owner wishes to keep the original and accepts tge rusk ofit deteriorating further and causing the watch to not run.

Personally, I couldn't get too excited about the minor detail of the date wheel numerals, the open 6 and 9 always seems like a load if crap to me, I really can’t see how it matters. What does matter is having a date wheel in good condition, faulty datewheels stop watches from running, I’ve had to carefully re-profile damaged teeth to cure such faults on vintage watches where a replacement wheel can’t be sourced and I would much rather fit a new replacement!

Strongly advise the OP to enjoy the watch and forget about it, I have an extensive collection of vintage Omegas and they’ve all had parts replaced at some point.......for good reasons!

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Thanks Walkerwek, I certainly have queried the reason for the change, as they didn’t mention it in their preliminary diagnostics. A lot of what you say is true and fair, it’s just that I bought a watch for its particular aesthetic and now it’s not quite the same. Not a big deal. I’ll chalk it down to a learning experience. I appreciate the response.


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With the amount they charge for a service I’m not sure why a more personalised experience isn’t possible. If it’s a vintage watch and the owner has requested most parts not to have been replaced can’t they have a quick conversation with the owner or AD to determine exactly what they’d like.

It's been a few years since I sent a 4/5 digit ref back to Rolex for servicing, but when I did I never had any issues

Things may well have changed in that time

I dealt directly with RSC, so no middle man to confuse the message, and listed point-by-point what they could, and could not do.

Something along the lines of..

1) Do not polish case at all
2) Do not polish caseback at all
3) Bracelet/clasp may be refinished
4) Service movement
5) Do not replace hands
6) Do not replace dial
7) Do not replace datewheel
8) Do not replace glass (lack of waterproofness accepted at my risk)
9) Crown/tube may be replaced if required
10) Movement parts (not including the above) may be replaced if required

etc, etc

May seem onerous, but worked.

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Originally Posted by demonloop

It's been a few years since I sent a 4/5 digit ref back to Rolex for servicing, but when I did I never had any issues

Things may well have changed in that time

I dealt directly with RSC, so no middle man to confuse the message, and listed point-by-point what they could, and could not do.

Something along the lines of..

1) Do not polish case at all
2) Do not polish caseback at all
3) Bracelet/clasp may be refinished
4) Service movement
5) Do not replace hands
6) Do not replace dial
7) Do not replace datewheel
8) Do not replace glass (lack of waterproofness accepted at my risk)
9) Crown/tube may be replaced if required
10) Movement parts (not including the above) may be replaced if required

etc, etc

May seem onerous, but worked.

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Did you get a 2 year guarantee with the service ?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rodder

With the amount they charge for a service I’m not sure why a more personalised experience isn’t possible. If it’s a vintage watch and the owner has requested most parts not to have been replaced can’t they have a quick conversation with the owner or AD to determine exactly what they’d like.

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Because Rolex is not in the business of maintaing archives or being personal i.e boutiquey . The Rolex service cost is not that much.

It's unfortunate what happened to the OP. General consenses is not to send anything that is not recent model to rolex, needs to be done directly & with a legal contract detailing each part.

I always have a list of parts that I don’t want changed when sending vintage pieces in.
Rolex wanted to change the mid case on my 1680 red as there was slight pitting.
When I declined their generous offer the watch was serviced no problems and with a two year guarantee.
The only difference is that it comes with a small card stating that the watch is not guaranteed waterproof to the dial depth rating, no problem!

Lesson learned for me. Thanks for all the advice and observations. If I get anything by way of a positive response from RSC, I’ll let you know.


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Strange reading these accounts. When my dad had his 80s Explorer serviced about 5 years ago he asked for a sapphire crystal and was told that they wouldn't do that as all parts had to be in keeping with the original. They actually went into quite a spiel about it. I guess they've archived the parts for some models!

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Originally Posted by optix

Because Rolex is not in the business of maintaing archives or being personal i.e boutiquey . The Rolex service cost is not that much.

It's unfortunate what happened to the OP. General consenses is not to send anything that is not recent model to rolex, needs to be done directly & with a legal contract detailing each part.

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Rolex are perfectly aware of the value of ‘keeping things original’ when it suits them, hence all the limited supply of certain models, grey market prices etc etc, ever increasing prices justified because of value retention, then throw that all away when you get the watch serviced (which costs more than the average car, for some reason). Apparently they ‘know what they’re doing’ but sometimes I do wonder - it all seems a bit too haphazard sometimes.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDad

Rolex are perfectly aware of the value of ‘keeping things original’ when it suits them, hence all the limited supply of certain models, grey market prices etc etc, ever increasing prices justified because of value retention, then throw that all away when you get the watch serviced (which costs more than the average car, for some reason). Apparently they ‘know what they’re doing’ but sometimes I do wonder - it all seems a bit too haphazard sometimes.


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Unfortunately they do what suits them best at the time

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