Are you for real? Read what you wrote, and keep reading it until you realise why the comparison with UC is nonsensical. And no, I'm not going to help you.
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I earn less than 25k, and I have never earned over £30k. I gave up working 5 days a week to go down to 4. The loss of income was relatively small, and I appreciate a 3 day weekend every week. I live in an extremely low crime area well within my means surrounded by excellent neighbours. I am in a good relationship, have a good view from my house and few worries. I also have few assets, no house or car, and a new SMP300c was a stretch financially. I have little interest in foreign holidays as I find heat difficult, a shame as I enjoy the travelling part. I have no debt. Everything that I have to pay for is in credit.
Years ago when I lived in an area where there was a large mix of incomes, I was aware that I had the lowest income. Almost every other family would have a new car on the drive, whereas we had a battered old Mk2 Escort. We would go out in it every weekend. Neighbours would often openly admit that they envied how happy we were together despite not having a pot to pee in. There’s more to wealth than money.
I’m very envious of you guys that have retired early and found the right balance of money and lifestyle, I’m currently trying to take a step back at 41 and spend more time with kids etc 50% reduction in earnings and but more important 50% reduction in hours (just 40 hours now feels like part time) my next goal is 3 days a week but with 3 young children it will probably take 10 or more years to get there. Ive loved money for the fun I’ve had with it but as I’ve got older I’ve realised I don’t need that much to have the same amount of fun just in different ways. I still believe that part of the current curriculum in schools should be how to manage money
Double post
Bottom line, if you want to be/remain wealthy... don't have kids. Or a wife.
I wish I had someone to guide me years ago, as a 16 year old going out on my own in the big wide world saving money, pensions and budgeting wasn't on my radar.
I guess I was lucky and was talked in to taking out a pension by my first boss but certainly money matters weren't part of my upbringing....that's not to say they were bad with money mind.
There in lies the problem though my parents couldn’t really teach me because they never had much money the only thing they taught was stay out of debt which was mainly good but made me very very risk averse to any debt at all not always a good thing. Then you see people that couldn’t manage their money if their life depended on it intelligent people with good jobs yet live pay check to pay check supplementing with loans and credit when the washing machine breaks for example I shudder to think how they’ll educate their children. I just think that schools should cover the basics like different accounts, savings, investments (nothing heavy isa type things) mortgages and interest rates etc.
So joint income of around top 10%, which is ok, but feels distinctly average, but like anything it’s not gonna be a steady curve of progression, just like an elite marathon runner the difference between a top 20% and top 2% is vast. I’ve had some top 5% race finishes but it’s still a country mile away from the winner. But I’m happy in my earnings as that represents my qualifications, application, ambition and skill; it’s alright as far as I’m concerned but know I could be better. I balance this with home life, personal time, recreation and my mental health; all of which I value more than a pay cheque. But I tip my hat to all who earn a good wage as it normally takes a big commitment and is well deserved.
Would you have listened though. Sixty was never coming when I was sixteen.
Earlier I should have said that I would like to have more to give me more choices, but I would end up with 10 watches instead of 1, which is fairly pointless if my 40+ collection of fountain pens is anything to go by.
I don't know, probably not however I only started thinking about money when I started living with the wife back in 92. Even then as 2 earners I wouldn't say we were both savvy with money. It was far too easy to eat out, buy what we wanted with little regard for later life. Whilst I may not have listened I think it would have given me a better start and would have made me wiser once we started living together.
The wife often says we blew so much money which is right but we did it whilst we could and then cut our cloth when we had children.
The only reason I retired with a decent pension was I had no choice, membership was compulsory - and I am now so grateful for this.
As regards wealth - disposable income is but one measure, lifestyle and many other issues are an influence on the situation.
Idiotic comments aside, income and council tax is in no way a measure of wealth.
Whoosh.
The question was "how wealthy do you feel", which is its relative. Bill Gates might not feel wealthy today because his stock might be down 10 points so instead of being worth 100b he might only be worth 99b, yet he is still considerably more wealthy than 7b other people.
I have had zero income for the past 3 years, but still consider myself quite wealthy when I compare my situation with others, especially those on UC. See it's relative.
Yep, discussions like this always remind me of the Mexican Fisherman story. Worth revisiting, no matter how wealthy you feel.
Snoozing on a red leather bench for £300 a day might have its attractions
I have a small company which keeps my business partner and I reasonably comfortable, we're busy most of the time and use the services of a chap that used to work with us at a previous employment. He went out self employed about 8 months ago fully understands it's on a basis of how busy we are but is happy not to come in as he's always rattling around in his own workshop or selling a car.
What that's done and only done has brought our leadtime down, we were at one stage booking a month in advance which is understandably a long time to wait if your car is broken. It's had little impact on the wage we take home, yes it's increased but not to a point where it's life changing.
A common topic of conversation is employing people and yes we could without doubt expand considerably.
We have the room to install atleast 2 more ramps, our landlord has always said he'd build us extra space on the back of the building and indeed 4 extra ramps is viable. We get asked all the time why dont we sell cars, do this, do that, sell parts etc etc. The simple answer is we're essentially happy with our lot. Along with those extra people, ramps etc comes every responsibility, sickness, pension, worry about not enough work coming in, employment law, increased H & S and so on.
It does make so much sense to expand but we simply don't want to, I know I'd probably be there later, our current opening time is 8:30-5, we'd need to do 8 til 6 for starters
When we set the business up it was done on the basis of not opening Saturday and we've stuck to that. I'm certain that would change, one of us would have to be there with anyone working and all of a sudden we've lost a Saturday lie in which I value more and more as I'm approaching 50.
The story of the fisherman is a cracker, I think we all need to stop, take stock of what we've got and if we're happy with it then be happy!
Its like sales figures in a company
Next year will be old news
Unless you loose your health or loved ones you dont get the bigger picture. And to most people is temporarily
Unless you find happiness to what you have you never will
I feel very wealthy and i come from a very weird island when it comes to what you must show to “show” wealthy
We, the wife and I came together naturally/by chance with two sides of the plan I think... she had always had this notion that it was bonkers that we all generally speaking have to work through our best years and then only get to retire when inevitably either /or both mind/body starts to go and I was brought up just this side of the poverty line, but from an early age could see other family members with nowt and I had hard work, responsibility and the importance of saving hammered in from an early age. Although not financially literate or sophisticated at 16 or 18 I knew I really didn't fancy 50 years of the grind and that if I was to 'escape' it was on me.
Luck in terms of time and place played a part as it does for everyone ie moving to London, also Government assisted by imo deliberately deforming the property market along with the availability of OPM for extra leverage creating an opportunity, these factors along with a couple of jobs in financial services and real estate which though they didn't end up as careers taught me a few more things which I/we applied to our advantage.
We also didn't fancy bringing children into the world until we had a degree of financial security and once you begin making investments and 'feathering your nest' it becomes addictive and a lot of fun, especially if you view it as beating the system. So almost any amount of hard work and a little sacrifice was easy to justify because the progress was tangible, it's then a case of figuring out how much is enough. The Spain idea was another 'happy accident', so now we live somewhere full time that enjoys great weather, lovely countryside, cheaper cost of living and some other folks work all year to come and enjoy a couple of weeks holiday.
Mick, I really don’t see how the posting of that particular meme reeks of bullying. Someone trying to equate an income of £80,000 per annum with UC of £317 per month is somewhat in need of a reality check. Most of the people I know on UC also happen to work hard on zero hour contracts and need UC to make ends meet.
The pic is a form of bullying / ganghut mentality and is what you expect in the BP, not here.
The point Andy has failed to grasp is that if you earn £100k and mortgage yourself to the hilt, you may feel poor because because you will struggle to meet the normal household bills. However, you will be living in a nice house in a nice area and that does make you wealthy, especially when house prices start to creep up again.
That house price wealth idea only really works if you can at some stage cash out realising your gains and move somewhere cheaper and in your opinion 'better', I think sadly for most folks while it represents theoretical wealth too often it's going to be siphoned off to pay medical/care bills or they make the mistake of using it to fund 'lifestyle' in the mistaken belief that's what wealth is and can be sustained because house prices will always only go one way. Just my view.
Clever idea by Governments though encouraging rampant house price growth to make folk feel wealthier and so buy votes, in reality when it's your own home with a mortgage you are still on the treadmill servicing/paying the debt. The near zero rates post 2008 are essential to keep the plates spinning and forestall a horrible crash.
Sorry, will say no more, straying into politics territory albeit not intentionally.
Lots of posters here saying work shouldn't be a focus. Well on a personal level I love work, I love what I do and it actually gives me respite from what can at times be a challenging home environment. So quitting work as soon as possible would not be something I would want to do.
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Yes, it seems to me that how you will value your life with hindsight will be how you have used your time.
Money is a resource that you can renew but time is a one use resource and should be treated with the respect that it warrants.
I also loved my work (apart from the management/political aspects in latter years) and I don't think that I was at home much in the 80s and 90s. i quite enjoyed getting on a plane two or three times a week in those days too before all this security sh**
I think it is good to reflect and act when the time scales tip to more used than left.
I am probably in all definitions comfortable but I have always avoided showing wealth.
I never "feel" wealthy or poor - I'm OK. I really never judge people based on possessions so when I went to poor areas of the world I always saw people; not their wealth or poverty. I did recoconise contrasts of course.
B
It seems he is an IT contractor so is probably aggrieved feeling he is forced into PAYE from IR35 changes and will no longer be able to pay himself via dividends or off shore loans etc. and as an IT contractor moves around the higher earners (fellow IT workers and the businesses that use them).
The whole debate is well summed up by this tweet from lawyer Jolyon Maugham
"Fact. Earning £80,000 a year puts you well into the top *3%* of adult earners."
He added: "£80,000 - what an MP earns - puts you into the top 3% but it doesn't give you the lifestyle the English middle class once had.
"No private school, no comfortable house (certainly not in London), and so on. What we used to call a middle class existence is increasingly unobtainable.
"I'm not playing a violin for him - about 97% have it worse - but it does tell a story about how all the gains are going to an infinitesimally small number of people and how (in a way) everyone else can be cross with justification."
Healthy = Wealthy
My divorce back in the mid-90s almost bankrupted me. Despite all the turmoil and aggravation, I felt better than in the period before the divorce with more than enough money. I'd never been so poor but on the other hand: I was richer than before.
Then I met my current wife. We started from scratch: she'd been unemployed after graduating from the uni and I lost virtually everything. Our first 'home' together was were two rooms in a derelict house, sharing kitchen and bathroom with other tenants. With the smell of joints coming through the floorboards every evening... Now 20+ yrs later, our situation is couldn't be more different.
What we notice is that our oldest, looking for a home for himself, thinks that trees grow into the sky. He thinks that he can look for an apartment (!) suited to the lifestyle he's used to at home. But with his little income, student loan and some monthly allowance from us for insurance and dental health, he's forced to look elsewhere. Something that fits his income. We're not going to buy or rent it for him; he's not happy with our point of view. But we're not budging. The only thing we're paying without a blink of the eye are sailing related matters or parts. I buy and pay the parts and hand them to him. I won't give him the money so that he can use it for something else.
Sad but inevitable that some posters have tried to turn the thread political. I’ll resist the temptation.
I’ve spent my career working for some seriously wealthy people. In my line of work if you’re at all good at it you can do reasonably well yourself, although paling into insignificance compared to some of the clients. What I did learn from the smarter clients was the importance of staying grounded, in touch with reality, and respectful of the people around you, be they employees, business associates or people at the sharp end of providing services. Sadly my observation is that too many people flaunt their financial success and think that it exempts them from basic common courtesy towards those around them.
It's probably about average for car ownershipchoice you take into account the purchase price, depreciation and replacement after x years, insurance, road tax (road fund licence fee), fuel, servicing and other running costs.
Car ownership for most people is not that effective an option, but to lots of us was sold as a necessity.
On the feeling of wealth, I took the option of working part-time and doing more personal studying a few years back, and apart from helping out a couple of client's in the last 18 months (which at times meant working back at for jelly full-time hours or above) I've generally gone back to a part-time week with two or three month long holidays throughout the year - so I am a lot more time rich than I used to be, and I enjoy being able to do my own things a couple more days a week, or having long weekends every week.
I could have carried on working longer hours, but I wanted more free/me time now while I'm still young/healthy enough to enjoy it.
-Someone with an 80k income wouldn’t be able to borrow £600k.
-£1000 for utility bills then another £400 for phone, internet, like rental?!
-£1000 PCP? What’s decent? I previous car was an Audi A5 which cost around £500 all in (Lease payment, tax, insurance, petrol for 1000 miles/month)
I hope the above is hypothetical. Someone earning £80k, borrowOMG £600k for a mortgage and decides that £500 a month for a holiday fund an £1000 a month for a car are essentials, leaving £100 for a rainy day fund is managing their money really badly.
Having said that, Im not the most financially responsible myself. Fortunately a big portion of my income comes from performance related quarterly bonuses so I don’t need to budget/save for any luxuries such as holidays or watches. I will probably need to get my act together at some point!
Get by on a little less than that but to do so I work 15 hrs a week in addition to a great Fs pension and have zero owed.
Therefore feel pretty good.
I turn 40 next year and recently gave up working full time, to dropping down to a three day week earning a lot less per hour.
However I save at least three hours a day commuting, and I have no job stress, I can schedule my days around the kids needs, financially it has taken some adjustment but I'm happier and so are the family because of this.
My wife works full time and is working up the ladder at work, she loves her work which is a bonus.
Neither of us earn 80k but we live well.
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Edited because someone is going to take this the wrong way