Auction, is this a Milsub?

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18th June 2019, 08:45
murkeywaters

Auction, is this a Milsub?

Seen this lovely 5513 in a auction catalogue this morning, I then realised, is it an actual Milsub but with service Mercedes hands and standard bezel?

It has the solid bar case for nato straps and military case back. It was owned by a local diver who lived in the Hampshire area where I believe most Milsubs were issued, he has other watches for sale at auction and it’s mentioned he was a Navy diver in one of those listings..

If it’s the real deal this watch will go crazy money!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6b403ba707.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...36107a13cb.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9e589da18d.jpg

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...lot-image-link
18th June 2019, 09:04
Dave+63

Wasn’t Humbert and Ellis the auctioneer who knowingly sold a fake sub having been advised on a number of occasions by Haywood that it was indeed a fake?
18th June 2019, 09:06
murkeywaters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave+63

Wasn’t Humbert and Ellis the auctioneer who knowingly sold a fake sub having been advised on a number of occasions by Haywood that it was indeed a fake?

Yes, that was the double red SeaDweller, this is a completely different auction house - Hannams..
18th June 2019, 09:14
Dave+63

Sorry, my mistake. When I clicked the link to the saleroom, the H&E Watch was the first that came up. I realised after replying that it showed the watch I last looked st rather than the one you were linking to.
18th June 2019, 09:25
Dave+63

The fellows auction today has what looks to me to be a nice 5512/3 ft first with an estimate of £7-£10k but I’m no expert. Lot 310

They’ve also a (not quite) root beer gmt with an estimate of up to £4600 which seems pretty cheap and a yellow gold DD for £3600 top estimate.

Of course, there’s another 33.54% to add on to the hammer price which brings them up a bit!
18th June 2019, 10:00
Sinnlover

I am not an expert but I would say that is the real deal.
The lack of Milsub Bezel and standard hands will hurt the price a tad I think but it would still be worth a small fortune.
It will be interesting to see what it goes for.
18th June 2019, 10:09
JasonM

The glass is too scratched for me, and for that reason, I’m out.
18th June 2019, 11:40
Galaxia

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonM

The glass is too scratched for me, and for that reason, I’m out.

LOL
18th June 2019, 12:27
Haywood_Milton

Could well be correct, though parts have been swapped out even if it is.

Would be good to find out if that is the original case-back that belongs with the mid-case, as they were frequently muddled up on the bench at Herstmonceux.

H
18th June 2019, 12:33
barbosas

Really nice, worth checking how the auction goes.
18th June 2019, 16:43
murkeywaters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Could well be correct, though parts have been swapped out even if it is.

Would be good to find out if that is the original case-back that belongs with the mid-case, as they were frequently muddled up on the bench at Herstmonceux.

H

I did read somewhere that hands and bezels were often swapped out once the watch was out of service, true or not I don’t know but might be the reason behind this Milsub.

Whoever wins the auction could create an uber rare watch at the pinnacle of vintage Rolex, if they could get hold of a set of sword hands and original bezel, that is a very big IF!!
18th June 2019, 16:49
bobdog

I recall somebody bandying around a figure of £10k for a genuine insert, if that’s correct it isn’t exactly pocket money, then you have to source the sword hands, Eek.
18th June 2019, 16:53
Wallasey Runner

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdog

I recall somebody bandying around a figure of £10k for a genuine insert, if that’s correct it isn’t exactly pocket money, then you have to source the sword hands, Eek.

I think the same figure was quoted for the second hand on its own, but logically who would have spares?
18th June 2019, 18:00
Sinnlover

I might be wrong but...
I seem to remember reading somewhere (MWR?) that Rolex may have replacement (new) 60 minute bezels for use on genuine Milsubs that pass through their service centres.
Obviously I might be wrong, I often am and it would be interesting to hear from the experts on the matter.
If the bezel rumour is true do they have hands?
Either way it is a potentially very sought after watch and it will be interesting to see what it fetches. If I had not under archived so much in my life I might have put in a bid. 😃
18th June 2019, 18:38
HenPecked

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonM

The glass is too scratched for me, and for that reason, I’m out.

I bet the battery's run out too. Not worth it, imo.
18th June 2019, 18:41
Dave+63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Could well be correct, though parts have been swapped out even if it is.

Would be good to find out if that is the original case-back that belongs with the mid-case, as they were frequently muddled up on the bench at Herstmonceux.

H

Herstmonceux H?

Is there something I should know about the village I live near?
18th June 2019, 18:53
murkeywaters

Auction, is this a Milsub?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdog

I recall somebody bandying around a figure of £10k for a genuine insert, if that’s correct it isn’t exactly pocket money, then you have to source the sword hands, Eek.

The guy who spent £400 on Omega parts a few months ago through eBay to then find in the lot he had several original Milsub bezels, he would be good to contact if you bought the watch, he was quoted over £40k for one bezel though!
18th June 2019, 18:55
Loupe

Quote:

Originally Posted by murkeywaters

The guy who spent £400 on Omega parts a few months ago through eBay to then find in the lot he had several original Milsub bezels, he would be good to contact if you bought the watch, he was quoted over £40k for one bezel though!

And all sold.
18th June 2019, 19:01
murkeywaters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loupe

And all sold.

Are they? I didn’t know what happened to them as it went a bit quiet after the initial circus surrounding the purchase..
18th June 2019, 19:29
Loupe

Quote:

Originally Posted by murkeywaters

Are they? I didn’t know what happened to them as it went a bit quiet after the initial circus surrounding the purchase..

Yes, was offered one but didn’t jump straight away.
Was mulling over trading a red sub and LVC for the broken insert.
18th June 2019, 20:53
murkeywaters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loupe

Yes, was offered one but didn’t jump straight away.
Was mulling over trading a red sub and LVC for the broken insert.

That's crazy that a broken insert is the same value as those two iconic watches.

I wonder what he sold them all for as I think he said he was hoping they would pay for a deposit on a house - more like pay for the house outright!!
18th June 2019, 22:57
Tom-P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave+63

Herstmonceux H?

Is there something I should know about the village I live near?

See description @

https://www.watchcentre.com/product/...iner-5513/2100

or

https://www.timezone.com/2012/07/07/...james-dowling/

'As they were quite different to the normal 5513; they were given a specific reference number, 5517, and they then travelled a very circuitous route before they were strapped on to a diver’s wrist. Although the watches were ordered by the MoD, they did not go directly to the ministry when they arrived in the UK. First they went to Rolex’s UK headquarters at Bexley in Kent, south of London. From there they were sent to Herstmonceux Castle in Sussex, this was the new site of the Royal Greenwich Observatory who had moved there in the 1950s when industrial pollution in the skies over London made their work in the capital difficult. Herstmonceux Castle was the centre of the Navy’s chronometer section; known as the Hydrographic Survey. Here the new Submariners were tested, both for accuracy and for their waterproof abilities; and only when they had proved themselves were they then sent back to Rolex' etc.
19th June 2019, 07:48
browjam

Had this discussion on hands the other day and if you could find them then you are looking at circa 20k for the pairs as mentioned earlier bu the “Runner”
19th June 2019, 18:18
barbosas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom-P

See description @

https://www.watchcentre.com/product/...iner-5513/2100

or

https://www.timezone.com/2012/07/07/...james-dowling/

'As they were quite different to the normal 5513; they were given a specific reference number, 5517, and they then travelled a very circuitous route before they were strapped on to a diver’s wrist. Although the watches were ordered by the MoD, they did not go directly to the ministry when they arrived in the UK. First they went to Rolex’s UK headquarters at Bexley in Kent, south of London. From there they were sent to Herstmonceux Castle in Sussex, this was the new site of the Royal Greenwich Observatory who had moved there in the 1950s when industrial pollution in the skies over London made their work in the capital difficult. Herstmonceux Castle was the centre of the Navy’s chronometer section; known as the Hydrographic Survey. Here the new Submariners were tested, both for accuracy and for their waterproof abilities; and only when they had proved themselves were they then sent back to Rolex' etc.

That second link is very informative, thanks for sharing.
20th June 2019, 18:54
Dave+63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom-P

See description @

https://www.watchcentre.com/product/...iner-5513/2100

or

https://www.timezone.com/2012/07/07/...james-dowling/

'As they were quite different to the normal 5513; they were given a specific reference number, 5517, and they then travelled a very circuitous route before they were strapped on to a diver’s wrist. Although the watches were ordered by the MoD, they did not go directly to the ministry when they arrived in the UK. First they went to Rolex’s UK headquarters at Bexley in Kent, south of London. From there they were sent to Herstmonceux Castle in Sussex, this was the new site of the Royal Greenwich Observatory who had moved there in the 1950s when industrial pollution in the skies over London made their work in the capital difficult. Herstmonceux Castle was the centre of the Navy’s chronometer section; known as the Hydrographic Survey. Here the new Submariners were tested, both for accuracy and for their waterproof abilities; and only when they had proved themselves were they then sent back to Rolex' etc.

Thanks Tom, that’s really interesting. The Royal Greenwich Observatory moved to Cambridge and is now Herstmonceux Science centre. It’s separate from the castle (which is now a study centre for a Canadian university) and is open to the public six or seven days a week.

I live about 1/4 mile away from the castle and pass it every day and I never even knew!!
20th June 2019, 19:09
Schofie

Quote:

Originally Posted by murkeywaters

The guy who spent £400 on Omega parts a few months ago through eBay to then find in the lot he had several original Milsub bezels, he would be good to contact if you bought the watch, he was quoted over £40k for one bezel though!

Sorry to hijack. I've not heard about this, does anyone have a link with more info?
20th June 2019, 22:01
murkeywaters

Auction, is this a Milsub?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schofie

Sorry to hijack. I've not heard about this, does anyone have a link with more info?

Here is the eBay listing -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchmake...app-cvip-panel

And here is the thread on TRF

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=647345

Enjoy..
30th June 2019, 20:59
murkeywaters

Anybody know the final selling price of this watch as the auction has withheld the details?
30th June 2019, 21:45
Andym

I'm curious about this too!

They also had a rather nice omega seamaster military on there too!
30th June 2019, 21:47
bobdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by murkeywaters

Anybody know the final selling price of this watch as the auction has withheld the details?

Seem to recall it was either 46k or 47k.
30th June 2019, 21:47
murkeywaters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andym

I'm curious about this too!

They also had a rather nice omega seamaster military on there too!

Yes that Omega was lovely, also had a nice military Precista, I forgot about the auction unfortunately..